What can be said about the 4-speed New Process NV833 overdrive manual transmission?

[65Robb]

Thanks gregski it was just on luck i found everything lol I followed ur build on ur truck on the transmission swap I can't wait to do this swap lol

[hatzie]

The 305E V6 took a different everything. That's no longer an issue since you've swapped in a 292 I6.

The post 1964 Inline 6 used the standard Chevy bellhousing pattern. The 1966 Chevy clutch pedal linkage will push the fork on the A833 bellhousing just like the fork on the old SM420 bellhousing.

The MY6 NP440/A833 has the same 10 spline input shaft dimensions as the SM465 & SM420. You have a good flywheel fitted on the 292 so get a few thousandths faced off it to clean off any thermal damage and buy a complete new Sachs clutch kit (pilot bushing, throwout bearing, friction disc, and pressure plate) so you don't have to mess with it again.

Driveshafts are really no big deal. Get a yoke for the A833 and mate it with a shaft that's the right length. If the Yoke and the driveshaft have different size Universal Joint cups you can buy hybrid joints.

You may have to move and or mod the transmission crossmember. This is probably the worst part of the job and it's bloody easy.

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by hatzie

The 305E V6 took a different everything. That's no longer an issue since you've swapped in a 292 I6.

The post 1964 Inline 6 used the standard Chevy bellhousing pattern. The 1966 Chevy clutch pedal linkage will push the fork on the A833 bellhousing just like the fork on the old SM420 bellhousing.

The MY6 NP440/A833 has the same 10 spline input shaft dimensions as the SM465 & SM420. You have a good flywheel fitted on the 292 so get a few thousandths faced off it to clean off any thermal damage and buy a complete new Sachs clutch kit (pilot bushing, throwout bearing, friction disc, and pressure plate) so you don't have to mess with it again.

Driveshafts are really no big deal. Get a yoke for the A833 and mate it with a shaft that's the right length. If the Yoke and the driveshaft have different size Universal Joint cups you can buy hybrid joints.

You may have to move and or mod the transmission crossmember. This is probably the worst part of the job and it's bloody easy.

That is comforting indeed ! My main concern was the clutch stuff . In 1987 I put in the heavy duty clutch ( for the bus or big stuff like C-60) in it and it still works well .
Today I found an place that will rebuild your own parts and make it as good as or better than the good old stuff from the 80s .
Otherwise store bought stuff now is overseas crate **** and Im hating what that did to my Aerostar .
How good is Sachs stuff compared to say McLoud or Hayes high performance clutches , or do you think I should have this local place rebuild my old parts ?
We even have "San Jose Driveline" in town fo the drive shaft :-)
The other issue is the making the linkage/shifter fit and not have to put in bucket seats or modify linkage . The guy with the 1961 GMC did it W/O worry because panel vans have more room to just move the seat back a bit , but not for PUs.

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by Dazzoman

That is comforting indeed ! My main concern was the clutch stuff . In 1987 I put in the heavy duty clutch ( for the bus or big stuff like C-60) in it and it still works well .
Today I found an place that will rebuild your own parts and make it as good as or better than the good old stuff from the 80s .
Otherwise store bought stuff now is overseas crate **** and Im hating what that did to my Aerostar .
How good is Sachs stuff compared to say McLoud or Hayes high performance clutches , or do you think I should have this local place rebuild my old parts ?
We even have "San Jose Driveline" in town fo the drive shaft :-)
The other issue is the making the linkage/shifter fit and not have to put in bucket seats or modify linkage . The guy with the 1961 GMC did it W/O worry because panel vans have more room to just move the seat back a bit , but not for PUs.

Brand name aftermarket clutch parts that are not cheaply made garbage.
Sachs clutches are made in Deutchsland. These are OEM on some BMW and VAG (VW, AUDI, Porsche, Seat, and Skoda). They are not racing clutches but they always exceed the application spec. I've always had excellent results from them in everything.
LUK clutches are made in South Africa. I've used them in everything as well. They've been used as OEM on the Japanese and VAG cars as well as some BMW.

Hays and McLeod are racing clutches. McLeod and Hays are still made in the US. Racing clutches tend to be grabby and not pleasant on the street... At least the ones I used.
Even if you use an Offenhauser Tri-Power or 4 barrel intake and headers the stock pressure plate and friction disc spring should be more than sufficient.
Mix and match if you want to build a heavy duty clutch that's streetable.
By using the correct diameter and center spline friction disc rated for a big block 1966-1968 Impala or Biscayne or any other fullsize GM car you will exponentially exceed the needed torque rating for the 292 in a Pickup.
A pressure plate for the 292 in a Medium duty truck C40, C50, or C60 will exceed the holding force needed for the Pickup chassis.

Honestly if the friction disc still measures at or extremely near the original thickness and the flywheel and pressure plate look good and are not warped you could re-use them with a new throwout bearing and a new pilot bushing.

When you are loaded heavy the A833 will not have the 1st gear gearing to get you moving as easy as the granny gear in the SM420 & SM465 so you will be sliding the clutch somewhat. It depends on the torque curve of your 292. The 292 could be made to approach or even exceed the L65 6.5L diesel with serious mods.

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by hatzie

The 305E V6 took a different everything. That's no longer an issue since you've swapped in a 292 I6.

The post 1964 Inline 6 used the standard Chevy bellhousing pattern. The 1966 Chevy clutch pedal linkage will push the fork on the A833 bellhousing just like the fork on the old SM420 bellhousing.

The MY6 NP440/A833 has the same 10 spline input shaft dimensions as the SM465 & SM420. You have a good flywheel fitted on the 292 so get a few thousandths faced off it to clean off any thermal damage and buy a complete new Sachs clutch kit (pilot bushing, throwout bearing, friction disc, and pressure plate) so you don't have to mess with it again.

Driveshafts are really no big deal. Get a yoke for the A833 and mate it with a shaft that's the right length. If the Yoke and the driveshaft have different size Universal Joint cups you can buy hybrid joints.

You may have to move and or mod the transmission crossmember. This is probably the worst part of the job and it's bloody easy.

BTW I have huge success with this trans ! I ended up with the cast iron model and LOVE IT ! Big gas mileage difference and smooth shifting ! The only thing is I have no reverse light working because the switch on the tranny works when it wants to , other then that its amazing !

[MusicMan70]

I can still see the magazine pages I posted starting at #231.
Also you have the alternate mounting version of the NP440; Compare your front mounting ears to what 65Robb posted up.
Not to fret though, take a look at this link. This guy used the same style you have, but you will need THAT specific bell housing.


http://www.classicjunkyard.com/new_process_a833.htm

I started out with the style you have and had to find one with the Chevy bolt pattern in front. I gave both to the rebuilder and he built me a good one out of the two. Also said I should keep the parts because some are specific to that transmission.

So I think your choices are to:
Find that specific bell housing or another NP440 with those mounting "ears"

[MusicMan70]

I found this bell housing on EBay and it says it's for theSM465 so if yours looks like this then you can remove those plugs and have at it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-GMC-Tr...pXycYo&vxp=mtr

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by MusicMan70

I found this bell housing on EBay and it says it's for theSM465 so if yours looks like this then you can remove those plugs and have at it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-GMC-Tr...pXycYo&vxp=mtr

Ah HAAA !
I will know this as soon as I have it apart ....
I think my bell housing ( God its been 30 yrs ) is cast iron not aluminum .
Do you think aluminum is better (than cast Iron) even tho mine is a 3/4 ton ?

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by MusicMan70

I found this bell housing on EBay and it says it's for theSM465 so if yours looks like this then you can remove those plugs and have at it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-GMC-Tr...pXycYo&vxp=mtr

THANK YOU fr finding that !

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by MusicMan70

I found this bell housing on EBay and it says it's for theSM465 so if yours looks like this then you can remove those plugs and have at it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-GMC-Tr...pXycYo&vxp=mtr

Now Im in big trouble , My SM 465 fits the old bell housing I have now but the NP 440 has different bolt patteren !(see my pic below )
WHAT NOW ?!

[Dazzoman]

Reusing the old clutch stuff - brilliant idea ! I gotta see if the flywheel is cracked and who knows the thickness of the disc specs ?
Maybe I'll turn the flywheel and throw in a new disc - but then again , whats the chance the EPA didn't ban real esbestos , finding one that good now ? So who makes an non Chinese throw out bearing/ pilot too ? Sachs ? Done !
I put 100K on this clutch / 292 , now the rear seal is puking like it should after 30 yrs .
Then again they all (even new) leak , that two parter seal ?
Here's another curve , what if I just rebuilt the SM465 and threw an high gear rear end instead of all this ? Isn't this tranny not as capable of heavy loads as the SM465 ?
Ya I bought all this stuff alleady but the SM465 is tougher . I sometimes carry an 2000 lb camper on it ....
What do you think ?
Gas milage is a biggie w me , I dont race really . I just use it as an truck and a cruiser.
Which of the two will offer me better performance ?
Right now my original 66 Dana Spicer rear end has the tallest ring gear ratio it fits - 354.
It screams on the freeway / no gas milage , power except it likes 3rd gear ( big deal) .
The 292 is low end torquey , I should have put in a 250 or even an 283 ( if this was 1987).

[hatzie]

I ran a 1985 305 with an SM465 and 2.73:1 rear gears. She ran around 11-12mpg in town and 14-15mpg highway. She was a dog too.

If you're after highway mileage I'd lean toward the A833 with shorter rear gears like the 4.11:1 set. That was a very common ratio so you may already have them.

The original 1966 pickup truck axle came with 3.07:1, 3.73:1, and 4.11:1 gears The ElCamino could be had with 3.36:1 gears. 4.11:1 was listed as "overdrive only" the taller, lower number, ratios were used with regular gearboxes.

GM New Process A833 NP440 MY6 MM7 overdrive transmission ratios.
1st 3.09 2nd 1.67 3rd 1.00 4th 0.73

Assuming you are running metric tires close to the original 1966 C10 size 205/75R15 tires.
You can shift MPH to RPMs by several hundred RPMs just by changing tire sizes.

65mph in 0.73:1 4th gear 205/75R15 tires and 4.11:1 gears would be turning roughly 2400 RPM.
Launching might be a bit more difficult. 5MPH is 787 RPM...

You can do a bunch of what-if calculations in my spreadsheet.
The red numbers are transmission ratios. For 5th & 6th gears just enter 0.00 The RPM to MPH tables will re-calculate when you change the red and blue numbers.
The blue numbers can be edited for tire size and other items.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/zk...ansferCase.zip

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by hatzie

I ran a 1985 305 with an SM465 and 2.73:1 rear gears. She ran around 11-12mpg in town and 14-15mpg highway. She was a dog too.

If you're after highway mileage I'd lean toward the A833 with shorter rear gears like the 4.11:1 set. That was a very common ratio so you may already have them.

The original 1966 pickup truck axle came with 3.07:1, 3.73:1, and 4.11:1 gears The ElCamino could be had with 3.36:1 gears. 4.11:1 was listed as "overdrive only" the taller, lower number, ratios were used with regular gearboxes.

GM New Process A833 NP440 MY6 MM7 overdrive transmission ratios.
1st 3.09 2nd 1.67 3rd 1.00 4th 0.73

Assuming you are running metric tires close to the original 1966 C10 size 205/75R15 tires.
You can shift MPH to RPMs by several hundred RPMs just by changing tire sizes.

65mph in 0.73:1 4th gear 205/75R15 tires and 4.11:1 gears would be turning roughly 2400 RPM.
Launching might be a bit more difficult. 5MPH is 787 RPM...

You can do a bunch of what-if calculations in my spreadsheet.
The red numbers are transmission ratios. For 5th & 6th gears just enter 0.00 The RPM to MPH tables will re-calculate when you change the red and blue numbers.
The blue numbers can be edited for tire size and other items.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/zk...ansferCase.zip

SO you are saying my NP440 should do the trick .Is it the same as the A833 ? My truck is an 3/4 ton chassis and is rated at an 1 ton has an fleetside bed .I am running 16 inch 8 lug rims ( I got from an 1982 3/4 ton chevy) , converted them to the old 1961 snap ring fingers to hold the inny style hubcaps - so cool !
I remember my 66 Spicer rear had 411's in it originally and put in 354 ring gear. you said 411 is higher geared but my experiance is different here .

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by Dazzoman

SO you are saying my NP440 should do the trick .Is it the same as the A833 ? My truck is an 3/4 ton chassis and is rated at an 1 ton has an fleetside bed .I am running 16 inch 8 lug rims ( I got from an 1982 3/4 ton chevy) , converted them to the old 1961 snap ring fingers to hold the inny style hubcaps - so cool !
I remember my 66 Spicer rear had 411's in it originally and put in 354 ring gear. you said 411 is higher geared but my experiance is different here .

The NP440 is another name for the aluminum case A833 and maybe all of them. MY6 & MM7 are the GM RPO codes.

4.11:1 is a shorter or lower ratio than 3.54:1. Use lower gears to shift the RPMs up and Higher gears to shift the RPMs down. You can also change your tire diameter... larger is the same as shorter or lower gears.

Nothing wrong with getting rid of the split rims. 245\75AT16 [30.5"] tires? I have 265\75AT16 [31.65"] on my 76.

I would shoot for 4.11 or even better 4.56 gears with 31.6" tires. You'll be able to take off without lugging the engine and still have a decent overdrive engine speed. Very similar to the NV4500 without Low gear.

Plug 4.11 & 245\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,300RPM at 70mph & 700 RPM at 5mph.
Plug 4.56 & 245\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,600RPM at 70mph & @800 RPM at 5mph.

Plug 4.11 & 265\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,200RPM at 70mph & 675 RPM at 5mph.
Plug 4.56 & 265\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,475RPM at 70mph & 750 RPM at 5mph.

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by hatzie

The NP440 is another name for the aluminum case A833 and maybe all of them. MY6 & MM7 are the GM RPO codes.

4.11:1 is a shorter or lower ratio than 3.54:1. Use lower gears to shift the RPMs up and Higher gears to shift the RPMs down. You can also change your tire diameter... larger is the same as shorter or lower gears.

Nothing wrong with getting rid of the split rims. 245\75AT16 [30.5"] tires? I have 265\75AT16 [31.65"] on my 76.

I would shoot for 4.11 or even better 4.56 gears with 31.6" tires. You'll be able to take off without lugging the engine and still have a decent overdrive engine speed. Very similar to the NV4500 without Low gear.

Plug 4.11 & 245\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,300RPM at 70mph & 700 RPM at 5mph.
Plug 4.56 & 245\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,600RPM at 70mph & @800 RPM at 5mph.

Plug 4.11 & 265\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,200RPM at 70mph & 675 RPM at 5mph.
Plug 4.56 & 265\75AT16 into the spreadsheet. @2,475RPM at 70mph & 750 RPM at 5mph.

OK good :-)
About clutches :
You said the McCloud Hayes stuff is going to be almost un pleasnent because it will be too grabby or something . I wouldn't like it ...
For me I Like an nice smooth ( ok Im boring , just say it ) plus EASY on the left leg/foot shifting . Im not into stiff hard clutches by any means - it wears out the other linkage , pedal components too as well as someones knee. I have an 411 Dana rear with the fancy clutches in it , cost a fortune when I did it . Sometimes I think "Yah just put an higher geared rear end in it from an 1972 in it and keep the SM465" so i can have my cake ( mileage) and eat it ( performance, save engine wear etc .)
Other times I say " Go with the NP440 " But whats better really ?
Ya the splits were awful rims because not matter what they were bumby .
Oh crap I can't remember the tire size but will post that . I have cool photos ..
Oh well here you go (pics) .
Back to the clutch (lest I digress) I found out that "Superior Clutch" in San Jose has closed this week due to the president ,Robin , had an heart attack at 55 !
He could rebuild your stuff way better than stock . So it looks like Im thinking of turning the flywheel ( just to remove the beveled edge ) and throw in an new disc , throw out & pilot should do the trick .
I hate it because I would rather have new stuff in there ( is my way ) but the crap they make today .
I might just go with Sachs like you said .
Where can I get it ?
Thank you pal !
Teddy PS I lied , I'll post the photos on a seperate deal because this forum is complicated .

[Dazzoman]

Not to digress but here is the rims conversion I did from 1961 "16 splits to solids from an 1982 "16s . The hub cap spring fingers were the issue so I could keep those caps .

[Dazzoman]

In 1985 did they make the 305 V-6 engine ? OH you had the shortblock V-8 , never mind ...Ya not enough torque compared to the GMC 1966 305E V-6 , it was an heavy weighed motor that was low end torqy

[65Robb]

That's a cool spread sheet I just did the engine in my 65 c10 used crate 350 120 comp all 8 cyl I currently running the farm speed granny low when I did the engine swap I went to napa an got a 12" HD clutch it fit in the old bellhousing perfect same clutch I'm gunna use for the 833 I am also running 265/75R16 on my truck used what I had laying around now I habe a set of rallies I just need powder coated black an wrap them up in a 31/10.50R15

[Dazzoman]

Anyone know if Kevlar clutches are better then organic?

[Dazzoman]

i have heard a rumour that not all Sachs brand stuff is actually German made ( especially if its under 100$) .Anyone know of anything different as to where I can get high quality clutch kit ? (Non performance because that is too hard on the foot and made for hard fast shifting )

[Dazzoman]

What about the freakin rear old seal leak ? They all leak and you'd think someone has finally invented something that won't . Anyone ? This means I gotta pull the oil pan just to change it , what a bad idea !

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by Dazzoman

What about the freakin rear old seal leak ? They all leak and you'd think someone has finally invented something that won't . Anyone ? This means I gotta pull the oil pan just to change it , what a bad idea !

Several things work on the smallblocks

1. Make sure it's not the oil pan gasket. See step 1. See step 1 once again.
2. Buy a good quality rear main seal and pan gasket from Fel-Pro.
3. Rotate the seal @ 30° in the direction of crank rotation before installing the main cap so the gaps don't line up with the cap.
4. Add a thin dab of RTV to all four seal ends before you rotate them in
5. Add a thin dab of gasket sealer to the main cap around the seal
6. Small-blocks have available one-piece pan gaskets getting one for the 194, 215, 230, 250, 292 I6 may not happen.

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by hatzie

Several things work on the smallblocks

1. Make sure it's not the oil pan gasket. See step 1. See step 1 once again.
2. Buy a good quality rear main seal and pan gasket from Fel-Pro.
3. Rotate the seal @ 30° in the direction of crank rotation before installing the main cap so the gaps don't line up with the cap.
4. Add a thin dab of RTV to all four seal ends before you rotate them in
5. Add a thin dab of gasket sealer to the main cap around the seal
6. Small-blocks have available one-piece pan gaskets getting one for the 194, 215, 230, 250, 292 I6 may not happen.

OK cool thank you .
I was almost thinking its better to put an 350 in this truck because now I have the new trans ready to install .but the seal it the biggie on the 292 .

[D13]

Re-read Page 1. You have the non-GM pattern version of the trans. You need the correct specific bell housing. This is why I refused to buy one that did not have bell and shifter with it.
Be sure to check the bell housing center hole to make sure that fits over the front bearing retainer. Those are larger than a Muncie too.

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by D13

Re-read Page 1. You have the non-GM pattern version of the trans. You need the correct specific bell housing. This is why I refused to buy one that did not have bell and shifter with it.
Be sure to check the bell housing center hole to make sure that fits over the front bearing retainer. Those are larger than a Muncie too.

Yep , the hole is smaller on the old bell !
So mine is NOT GM ? !
I Thought I was lucky to find this tranny (they are scarce )and the shifter does fit it (bought seperate for 81 Chev van) .
I see on ebay some aluminum bells that appear to be the same bolt pattern for my (supposed) NP 440 81-85 chevy trans .
But of course those bells dont have the bolt ears for the 1966 crossmember that my truck has and needs .
i wonder if I could have those tig welded on ( the bolt ears ) instead of an crossmember made for the end of the trans .?
OR I could retrofit this 1966 bell to fit this tranny but my oh my it would have to be machined PERFECTLY .
What do you think ?