Bagged Dually Questions

[russellh575]

It looks like it only has about 5 leafs on it right now, how does it ride? Is it still pretty rough?

[SCOTI]

Shackles & hangers would get you approx 4" of drop. What diameter are those bags? Knowing that will help determine their capacity.

[monte0185]

It rides surprisingly smooth. The bags are about 6.5" across Scoti. Changed out the brake line and was going to change the sticking caliper as well till not to surprising to me I opened the caliper box and tada the wrong caliper. Parts stores today suck!!!

[Desert1957]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

From my understanding, the statement in bold print above is not correct.

The only company that I could find that made .250" thick C30 specific c-notches was Western Chassis. I ordered their notches when I measured my dually & was planning to install a flip kit. Then, I learned some good info concerning notched frame strength & realized the c-notches from WC were not up to my standards of use (maintaining or increasing OE structural strength). At < 2" of rail height in the 'notched' section, that's @ least a 60% reduction in rail strength (height = strength)! Boxing that section does not restore the strength anywhere near that same percentage.

We calculated the 'strength' of some notches I was building/working on for my 'Recycle' project. These were C10 notches that I based off of the material dimensions of those WC C30 notches I had purchased (and these supposedly were HD notches). To my dismay (& shock), the frame strength was 16% of the original un-cut rail. Also.... If I recall correctly, that 16% was with the frame boxed using .250" plate. To make matters worse for my (or anybodys) dually application, that did not account for the spring mounting points being in front of & behind the rear axle centerline 2' because on a truck-arm set-up everything is mounted in front of the rear axle C/L.

The only fix was a solid frame or making the notched section taller. For my C10, I opted to increase the height of the frame equal to what I removed & I boxed it as well yeilding more strength vs OE (disclaimer: Analysis calculated a stronger rail but subjective assesment would/should be based on the welder/fabricators ability). For my dually, I went straight to boxed-in step notches & cut them to fit my application.

For your dually..... step notch or the OE strength will be compromised. Lots of guys might be running a c-notched set-up that has 'worked just fine', but that doesn't make it right or safe. In the end, the owner is accountable if something fails.

Other info you might want.....
RideTech told me a c-notch was not required for their previously available bolt-in 73-91 C30 HD AirBar kit. Their intent was to never exceed the OE rails limitations. I'm not sure what they recommend now on the universal 'HD weld-in kit'.

Related notch strength tech.... http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...d.php?t=457037

Scoti,

Thanks for posting that link about frame cutting. Last time I mentioned concerns about frame cutting or notching techniques , I was crucified.

IMO that article really brings home the engineering involved in modifying any frame component.

Desert

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Desert1957

Scoti,

Thanks for posting that link about frame cutting. Last time I mentioned concerns about frame cutting or notching techniques , I was crucified.

IMO that article really brings home the engineering involved in modifying any frame component.

Desert

More than 1 of my buddies questioned me on the need for something better than just c-notches because "so & so's old truck never had anything more than that & got the job done". My statement toward the end summed it up pretty well.... Lots of guys might be running a c-notched set-up that has 'worked just fine', but that doesn't make it right or safe. In the end, the owner is accountable if something fails.


With step notches in, I'm still @ my targeted 8-ish rear drop (frame rail @ the back of the cab is 5" off the floor @ ride height) & have 4" of compression travel before I hit my GM sourced 2.5" tall bumpstop w/a full 5" of frame rail height. If I had used a c-notch only, I would have had maybe 1" before bottoming out using an uber short, poly/button style bumpstop & < 2" of frame height.

Which seems safer?

[monte0185]

If I run this does anyone know if I will have to cut the bed for the rear shackle? If I remember correctly Im pretty sure you do. at least on half tons I think you did.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bel-6750/overview/

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by monte0185

If I run this does anyone know if I will have to cut the bed for the rear shackle? If I remember correctly Im pretty sure you do. at least on half tons I think you did.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bel-6750/overview/

Usually, cutting the bed floor support was only required w/the shorter 52" springs & dropped shackles. I never had to cut the floor support on my old 74 w/BellTech shackles (my newer 90 swb didn't require notching either).

[comegetsome2003]

those helper bags will do everything you need them to do......they look to be firestone 2600# bags......my duramax has 2500# bags(smaller....handle less weight) and it handles more than i can "legally" tow just fine.....thats a clean truck and it may already have shackels on it....my duramax has a Cnotch welded in it and braced good.....havent had a problem with it yet and ive towed some heavy loads

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by comegetsome2003

those helper bags will do everything you need them to do......they look to be firestone 2600# bags......my duramax has 2500# bags(smaller....handle less weight) and it handles more than i can "legally" tow just fine.....thats a clean truck and it may already have shackels on it....my duramax has a Cnotch welded in it and braced good.....havent had a problem with it yet and ive towed some heavy loads

Thats a sweet looking collection there. Im not sure how good the bags are since one of the lines is broken and not sure if they have ever been used but they dont look dry rotted or cracked anywhere so hoping i can just add a new fitting to the line and maybe a compressor later and ill be golden.

I went ahead and ordered the belltech shackle kit from summit. I think that will put me where I want to be and I wont have to do any frame cutting. Eventually I think im going to do the ride tech weld in though. but thats another story. Hopefully by next weekend this truck will be sitting where I want.

[RustedMetal]

Mine has a 5/8 drop and has a flip kit and shackled. 9 leafs also, I have a c-notch but the issue is that the diff is only about 1 inch from hitting the bed. On big bumps it hits the bed. So keep in mind when you go to a 8in drop or more I would go ahead and make a notch in the bed

[comegetsome2003]

Sweet truck sir^

[cory d]

true, the diff will hit the bed long before you hit the notch. thats whta i have seen with 12 bolts. 14s may hit sooner. but you geet more travels if you are going around a hard corner and hit a bump

[monte0185]

What Size rims are those Rusted? Very sweet Looking truck. I almost got a single cab but i liked the crew cab better.

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by cory d

true, the diff will hit the bed long before you hit the notch. thats whta i have seen with 12 bolts. 14s may hit sooner. but you geet more travels if you are going around a hard corner and hit a bump

Im gonna try the shackle kit first since I already have a bunch of leaves removed and see where that puts me. With bigger tires Im hoping it will be close to what I want that way I dont have to cut the frame or bed.

[monte0185]

Hey guys Got a broken air line on the helper bags. Whats a good local source to pick up fittings and what kind do you recommend? It still has a schrader valve on one of them. Figured I would T the lines together and connect the 1 schrader valve off the T for the time being. Im in the memphis area but i figure theres a parts store that carries this kinda thing nowadays. Maybe. LOL

[comegetsome2003]

any Napa parts store should have airline and fittings.....or any place that works on Semi's....i personally like compression fittings as they dont leak as much as press-lock style....if you determine what size the airline is you can get a union at the parts store to put airline back together and wont have to re-plumb everything

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by comegetsome2003

any Napa parts store should have airline and fittings.....or any place that works on Semi's....i personally like compression fittings as they dont leak as much as press-lock style....if you determine what size the airline is you can get a union at the parts store to put airline back together and wont have to re-plumb everything

I was kinda thinking that if any parts store around here would have them it would be napa. Was hoping i wouldnt have to travel into memphis if i didnt have to.. Pretty sure its just the red 1/4" line. THanks!!

[monte0185]

Got my Shackle kit in today. Gonna start it in the morning. Think im just gonna put the front ones on then add the rear later after I get some new tires. That way I can see if its gonna need the rear shackles. I looked a little while ago when they came in and to put the rears on I have to cut the bed braces.

[monte0185]

Started on my schackle flip today and of course the dual tanks are in the way of getting a grinder in there to slice up the rivets to chisel them off. Probably wouldn't have been to bad if it hadn't been freakin cold out so ill get back to it later.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by monte0185

Started on my schackle flip today and of course the dual tanks are in the way of getting a grinder in there to slice up the rivets to chisel them off. Probably wouldn't have been to bad if it hadn't been freakin cold out so ill get back to it later.

I would have tried the shackles 1st just because they're easier to get to

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I would have tried the shackles 1st just because they're easier to get to

I had considered it but I dont want to cut the bed braces if i dont have to. Been considering pulling the bed for a few reasons. Looks like somone ran a tube in between the gas tank fillers and tied them together. Dont remember this being stock but regardless its not stainless and is rusty and i want to cut the awefull hitches out from underneath it. Yes I said hitches. Ill have to get a pic cause i have no idea what they were thinking on that one. Also want to make sure all my fuel lines are correctly routed since someone added an electric fuel pump.

[lolife99]

Mark where the bed needs to be notched for the drop shackles,... and take the bed off.
You will be much happier working on it.
Don't be surprised if the leaf spring bolts are rusted to the sleeve of the leaf spring bushing.

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Mark where the bed needs to be notched for the drop shackles,... and take the bed off.
You will be much happier working on it.
Don't be surprised if the leaf spring bolts are rusted to the sleeve of the leaf spring bushing.

It surprisingly is very rust free. It was well taken care of in a previous life Just has a few small things that need attention but what 27 year old truck dosent huh!! LOL. Your average person would probably overlook alot of the things I wanna change but I like for things to look like they belong there or at least could have came that way from the factory and wiring is my pet peave. I cant stand a rats nest of wiring. Yes it takes a bit more time to do it right and make it look good but in the end its well worth it.

[bluex]

Originally Posted by monte0185

Hey guys Got a broken air line on the helper bags. Whats a good local source to pick up fittings and what kind do you recommend? It still has a schrader valve on one of them. Figured I would T the lines together and connect the 1 schrader valve off the T for the time being. Im in the memphis area but i figure theres a parts store that carries this kinda thing nowadays. Maybe. LOL

Don't T the bags together. The air can shift sides when cornering an cause extra body roll an other issues. Always run them separate.

If you take one off an see who made the kit you could probably get a replacement line kit pretty cheap. Air lift is one company that makes helper bag setups.

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by bluex

Don't T the bags together. The air can shift sides when cornering an cause extra body roll an other issues. Always run them separate.

If you take one off an see who made the kit you could probably get a replacement line kit pretty cheap. Air lift is one company that makes helper bag setups.

Found a T at Napa for 2 $. Lol there wasnt a price on them so the guy just said how about 2 $ and I said sounds good to me. It's the push in kind. This is just a temp fix. Gonna replace the system cause the bags have some dry rot cracks in them. Not to bad but not something I would want to trust pulling a 5th wheel camper.

Is therd a way to ty them together with a compressor so I can flip a switch and air them up if I want? Dont really need to be fancy with a tank since they are just load helper bags.