Bilstien shock experiment $$

[akart]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

Something don't add up in your combo. 2" springs with a shackle flip would net 6" normally. The fact that you indicated you moved the shock mount down on the frame so they would reach would be a pretty clear red flag that the shocks are too short for the spring combination.

Mixing and matching gets very challenging with this stuff. ORD's combinations are proven. Watson is known throughout the industry for his specific squarebody suspension products. He's done the R&D with his own stuff.

A picture is totally worth a thousand words here. I'm pretty sure once the pics are up the problem should be able to be figured out.

Read my lips there is no shackle flip. Just there super shackle.Like a new heavy duty shackle to replace the original (no flip!!)
Will send pictures in a few days when I am next at my truck.

[nvrenuf]

Where did you buy the shocks?

You're complaining about the Rancho shocks and hating on ORD but didn't buy their Bilstiens. If you didn't buy the shocks from ORD then it seems like your issue is with someone else.

[akart]

Originally Posted by nvrenuf

Where did you buy the shocks?

You're complaining about the Rancho shocks and hating on ORD but didn't buy their Bilstiens. If you didn't buy the shocks from ORD then it seems like your issue is with someone else.

I need new shocks as the Ranchos don't fit w/this lift. I "am" trying to buy Bilstien shocks from ORD!!!!!! That is what this post is about, DA!! ORD wants to continue to go over and over the rear height problem which we have done before and I gave up. They win!! Picture to come.

[nvrenuf]

But you've complained about the fitment of the Ranchos (redrilling the frame, etc) in this thread all the while complaining about ORD.

Where did you buy the Ranchos?

If they did not come from ORD I think that should be clear. Also, if they did not come from ORD why aren't you complaining about that seller or Rancho in general since you said they are supposed to fit your size lift?

Or were these used shocks you already had?

I just think that in all fairness to ORD and the readers here, you should provide all of the info and not just pieces of info and a biased opinion (because you're mad).

[Zoomad75]

Originally Posted by akart

Read my lips there is no shackle flip. Just there super shackle.Like a new heavy duty shackle to replace the original (no flip!!)
Will send pictures in a few days when I am next at my truck.

Dude, tone down on the agression a tad would you? Nobody is beating you up. We are all asking questions about the combination to try and help you sort out the problem.

Your clarification to my statement still don't make sense then. What spec did they go for the eye to eye length? Are they 52" or 56" springs? If they are 56" spings moving the rear sping hanger is the correct thing to do.

Don't forget that when installing lift springs, the amount of lift is based against stock springs without any wear/useage that will cause them to collapse or at minimum flatten out. So a 2" lift spring could net 3"-4" over an old sagged spring.

Also, you stated multiple times you've given up on figuring why the height is off and all you want is the right shocks. Am I right? Problem is getting the right shock is 100% dependant on knowing what height you are sitting on. So until that variable is locked down any shock choice is purely a guess. Don't matter who makes the suggestion either. It's why Watson is still asking questions about it. Same thing from the rest of us trying to help here.

Just trying to help. Like many have said once you post up some pics it should be easier to understand the problem.

[akart]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

Dude, tone down on the agression a tad would you? Nobody is beating you up. We are all asking questions about the combination to try and help you sort out the problem.

Your clarification to my statement still don't make sense then. What spec did they go for the eye to eye length? Are they 52" or 56" springs? If they are 56" spings moving the rear sping hanger is the correct thing to do.

Don't forget that when installing lift springs, the amount of lift is based against stock springs without any wear/useage that will cause them to collapse or at minimum flatten out. So a 2" lift spring could net 3"-4" over an old sagged spring.

Also, you stated multiple times you've given up on figuring why the height is off and all you want is the right shocks. Am I right? Problem is getting the right shock is 100% dependant on knowing what height you are sitting on. So until that variable is locked down any shock choice is purely a guess. Don't matter who makes the suggestion either. It's why Watson is still asking questions about it. Same thing from the rest of us trying to help here.

Just trying to help. Like many have said once you post up some pics it should be easier to understand the problem.

I had 52" springs and the sent me 56" springs. So they told me to move the spring hanger but they were good enough to send me bolts and nuts. They claim I have the right springs so I don't know how the height can change. They did mention something about removing leaves form the pack at one time, but that is not going to happen. The height is what it is and that is what I plan to spec the shocks by. Pictures are posted. So what do you think,does that look like a 2" lift?

[Zoomad75]

Originally Posted by akart

I had 52" springs and the sent me 56" springs. So they told me to move the spring hanger but they were good enough to send me bolts and nuts. They claim I have the right springs so I don't know how the height can change. They did mention something about removing leaves form the pack at one time, but that is not going to happen. The height is what it is and that is what I plan to spec the shocks by. Pictures are posted. So what do you think,does that look like a 2" lift?

Unless I'm missing something using my phone to look at this right now I'm not seeing pics. Where are they posted? Not seeing any pics in this thread.

[brans72]

Ditto
Posted via Mobile Device

[akart]

Photos are on another thread. My first time posting photos and didn't get it on the original thread.

[Zoomad75]

http://http://67-72chevytrucks.com/v...d.php?t=758850

Here you go.

The heavy duty shackle is longer than stock, but in tension would actually lower the height. What I'm not sure of is the shackle angle, seems dead verticle. Some of the guys more knowledgeable than me on suspension geometry that have posted up should be able to get a better idea.

[akart]

Originally Posted by Zoomad75

http://http://67-72chevytrucks.com/v...d.php?t=758850

Here you go.

The heavy duty shackle is longer than stock, but in tension would actually lower the height. What I'm not sure of is the shackle angle, seems dead verticle. Some of the guys more knowledgeable than me on suspension geometry that have posted up should be able to get a better idea.

Don't know if it is longer than stock but that is what ORD sent me. Sure I would like to hear more about shackle angle. Looked at quite a few to figure it out. ORD had me move the mount back 4" as the springs they sent were 56" and I had 52". Kind of a moot point because I am not going to move that spring mount again,no way,that was a bear. Thank you!

[RADustin]

are the springs supposed to be spring under and you have it setup spring over? netting 7" of lift??

You need 4-5 inches of travel in bump and droop. If you don't have this it will ride like crap and no matter the shock valving it will be terrible.

Take the shocks off and see if it rides softer. It'll be bouncy but should ride softer.

[akart]

Originally Posted by RADustin

are the springs supposed to be spring under and you have it setup spring over? netting 7" of lift??

You need 4-5 inches of travel in bump and droop. If you don't have this it will ride like crap and no matter the shock valving it will be terrible.

Take the shocks off and see if it rides softer. It'll be bouncy but should ride softer.

Springs go over the axle.

[RADustin]

that was my stab in the dark.

I know most deaver long travel springs are spring under.

good luck sir.

[CUCV2]

Double posting in this thread and the pic thread so you will see this.

You may want to check the thread stick out on the top bolt of the shackle. I have a 87 K30 with the stock shackle hanger and a ORD shackle similar to what you have. Initially, I mounted the top shackle bolt the same way but the stickout hit the shackle hanger in rotation. I flipped the bolt around so it would clear and all was fine. May have even used a stock one vs. a greasable unit for clearance.

[Chulisohombre]

Pics definitely help but having a 7!inch lift that’s supposed to be 2 in its place isn’t going to work well. If you got the wrong spring length, why did you not exchange them instead of doing all that extra work? That would have been the easiest solution. Everything I have bought from ord has been spot on what was advertised. They will Make it correct or get you a fix hopefully. Their customer service has a great record from anything I’ve read. But like I said I’ve bought stuff and didn’t need them to fix anything. It was good to go. Good luck. Pics will definitely help to see what went wrong. When you get the chance.
Posted via Mobile Device

[akart]

Originally Posted by Chulisohombre

Pics definitely help but having a 7!inch lift that’s supposed to be 2 in its place isn’t going to work well. If you giththevwrongbspring length why did you not exchange them instead of doing all that extra work? That would have been the easiest solution. Everything I have bought from rod has been spot on what was advertised. They will Make it correct or get you a fix hopefully. Their customer service has a great record from anything I’ve read. But like I said I’ve bought stuff and didn’t need them to fix anything. It was good to go. Good luck. Pics will definitely help to see what went wrong. When you get the chance.
Posted via Mobile Device

The option for exchanging the springs was not considered or offered by ORD They said "We set you up for 56" springs so here's a bag of nuts and bolts and move your hangers back 4". Getting the right length springs sure would have been easier, but they are moved now. I am currently working w/them now on the height issue. Have pics posted on another thread. My first pic post so I didn't get it added to this thread but there are close,have a look. Thank you

[Stephen Watson]

It's not actually 7" of lift in the back. It was measured at 3.5" higher when the pics were taken (over the axles, not at the headlights and tail lights) before the shackle brackets were moved. The front is about 2" of lift so even with the rear springs bound up the rear was about 5.5". I'm sure it's much better with the brackets moved back to where we all thought they were to start.

[Stephen Watson]

This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.

[akart]

Originally Posted by Stephen Watson

This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.

It was established early on in the string of email to your associtate Chris that I had a K20 (3rd email 6/8/16).I have forwarded this string of emails to you, and I also asked if there was any further information that was required. I will furnish current measurements as soon as I can. Thank you very much

[akart]

Originally Posted by akart

It was established early on in the string of email to your associtate Chris that I had a K20 (3rd email 6/8/16).I have forwarded this string of emails to you, and I also asked if there was any further information that was required. I will furnish current measurements as soon as I can. Thank you very much

I think I may have this figured out. I have a K20 and ORD sent me springs for a heavier K30.That would explain the excess height in the back as it won't settle and the stuff ride. What do you think??? Thank you.

[akart]

Originally Posted by Stephen Watson

This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.

I think I may have the answer to this problem. I referred to my truck as a K30 once on my first email and early on and it was it was established that I was wrong and that I had a K20 (6/8/16) but I was still sent springs for a 1 ton K30. I thinking that is where the problem lies. The much heavier springs and would account for the extra height in the back and the stiff ride. Are 1Ton and 3/4 ton Alcan shocks the same?? Me thinks not, Help please!!

[akart]

Originally Posted by Stephen Watson

This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.

I referred to my truck as a K30 once in my first email to buy springs.It was established early on I was wrong,3rd email, 6/8/16 establishes that my frame was/is a K20. No further reference was made during the ordering process to a K30. But I got K30 springs. Could that be why the back is high and the ride is stiff. These springs were ordered for a smoother ride.

[Stephen Watson]

Originally Posted by Stephen Watson

This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.

Once again, it doesn't matter if the truck is a K20 or K30 (as someone else said earlier, either could have 56's), we build the spring for the length required and the intended use.

[akart]

Originally Posted by Stephen Watson

Once again, it doesn't matter if the truck is a K20 or K30 (as someone else said earlier, either could have 56's), we build the spring for the length required and the intended use.

Been talking w/Stephen with ORD. He told me that if he were to send me new/different springs that he would send me the same ones. I checked with the Alcan spring people about shocks for a 2" lift and they said they would have a 7" free arch.The springs I got from ORD have a 10" free arch according to Stephen Watson of ORD. The back springs in my opinion and by my measurements is too high. But Stephen says that the "Custom" shocks will be the same for a K20 or a K30. I believe I have a 6" lift in the back which I think is pretty obvious but Stephen of ORD says I am lying so I must be wrong and a liar. Why would I do this? Well I am done here on this topic. My options are to put in castor wedges to correct the low castor and poor steering due to the high rear end and be stuck w/that or to order new springs from Alcan springs who I have found to be most considerate and helpful and who Stephen of ORD says made my "Custom" springs. "But have nothing to do w/them?" Chris of ORD said it would take 3 weeks to make my springs, but they were miraculously shipped in only 1 week. So,Stephen you win and I loose and good luck to you and your ORD. Please draw your own conclusions and to all of you out there thank you for reading and commenting.