CPP Drop Spindles: Conflicting Information

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Nope.
No one has ever put this info out with pictures of the direct comparison,... and actual numerical differences..

Let me ask this then, is there a certain drop spindle out there that is known to surely widen the wheel track over the stock drum brake wheel track?

I am going to be running narrow front tires, and I want to widen the wheel track to move the wheels further out, and that is the reason I'm asking...

[big d's red67]

Originally Posted by lolife99

That's weird,... because even CPP doesn't claim that they move the wheels in that far.
That's what I'm trying to get figured out.

Somewhere I read that CPP made the statement it would move them in an 1 1/8 from regular drop spindles, for the life of me I can't find it now.

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by big d's red67

Somewhere I read that CPP made the statement it would move them in an 1 1/8 from regular drop spindles, for the life of me I can't find it now.

You probably got it here:
http://www.classicperform.com/Hot_News/HotNews.htm

QUOTE:
Looking for a spindle and brake kit for your lowered truck with big tires and wheels? CPP's introduces their new modular 2" drop spindle and drop spindle wheel kits for 1960-87 Chevy pickups. This exclusive new “Simple Offset Solution” or SOS™ design helps solve tire to fender interference commonly found with lowered trucks. This new SOS™ technology was designed to address concerns about using aftermarket big wheels and tires by using different spindle/rotor offsets. Classic Performance’s new modular spindle and bracket works with factory 1971-87 C10 brake components, or for a HIGH performance option, combine CPP’s spindle with their new Big Brake 13" Rotor, Twin 52mm Piston Brake Caliper kit.
Classic Performance’s new Modular Spindle offers many benefits available for the first time, installs easy without modifications, works with factory ball joints and tie rod ends, lowers your truck a full 2", offers adjustable steering stops, provides 1-1/8" more fender to tire clearance, allows use with standard factory brakes and performance aftermarket "BIG" Brake Kits

Is that total?
Per side?
Compared to what?
(back to my original question,...)

I've seen all this before,...
CPP needs to prove it.

[big d's red67]

Originally Posted by lolife99

You probably got it here:
http://www.classicperform.com/Hot_News/HotNews.htm

QUOTE:
Looking for a spindle and brake kit for your lowered truck with big tires and wheels? CPP's introduces their new modular 2" drop spindle and drop spindle wheel kits for 1960-87 Chevy pickups. This exclusive new “Simple Offset Solution” or SOS™ design helps solve tire to fender interference commonly found with lowered trucks. This new SOS™ technology was designed to address concerns about using aftermarket big wheels and tires by using different spindle/rotor offsets. Classic Performance’s new modular spindle and bracket works with factory 1971-87 C10 brake components, or for a HIGH performance option, combine CPP’s spindle with their new Big Brake 13" Rotor, Twin 52mm Piston Brake Caliper kit.
Classic Performance’s new Modular Spindle offers many benefits available for the first time, installs easy without modifications, works with factory ball joints and tie rod ends, lowers your truck a full 2", offers adjustable steering stops, provides 1-1/8" more fender to tire clearance, allows use with standard factory brakes and performance aftermarket "BIG" Brake Kits

Is that total?
Per side?
Compared to what?
(back to my original question,...)

I've seen all this before,...
CPP needs to prove it.

That's the one. In my case it was each side.

[67ctener]

All I can say is I'm running 2.5" modular spindles combined with bags on my truck with a 20x8 and 4.25 backspace. That seems to be hanging that front wheel out there and I don't know if it'd be possible with standard spindles.

[mtnbikerxt]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Here's my issue:

1) Drum brake fronts have the narrowest oem track width.
2) stock oem 71-87 disc brake spindles are suppose to be 3/4" wider than oem drum brake spindles.
3) old school drop spindles are suppose to be 1/2"-3/4" wider than stock disc brake spindles.
(for tie rod and lower a-arm clearance, due to raising the spindle centerline)

Where do the CPP modular spindles track width fall in?

Ok,... suppose they are 5/8" narrower (per side) than stock disc brake spindles.
That makes them 1/4" WIDER (per side) than drum brake spindles.
Correct?

But yet CPP still just claims they move the wheels in.
If I had all the different spindles,... I would make a jig to put this issue to rest.
Seems like CPP could do this,... but they don't.

I believe I read somewhere that CPP uses the same casting for all of their drop spindles and simply drills for the different balljoint and tierod tapers. If this is the case, CPPs wheel offset chart suggests that there is a 0.5" difference in width between the stock '67-'70 drum and the '71-'87 disc spindles.

They say that their CP4SX spindles are 1/16" wider than drums, 7/16" narrower than stock discs.

They also say their CP30106 (modular) spindles are 1/4" narrower than drums, 3/4" narrower than stock discs.

Both suggest a 0.5" difference in width between the stock drum and stock disc spindles.

Originally Posted by big d's red67

This my truck Tommy is refering to, my track width from the out side of the tire to outside of the tire was 77 inches, after the install of the CPP modular spindles it was 74 9/16th inches from outside to outside of the tires.

Originally Posted by big d's red67

That measurement was going from a 2 1/2inch aftermarket drop spindle to the CPP modular. Also want to add the CPP modular is listed as a 2inch drop it more like 2 1/4 inch.

Originally Posted by lolife99

That figures up to 1.22" per side narrower.

If the old-school drop spindles moved the wheels out 1/2" per side relative to a stock disc spindle, moving from those to a modular spindle would move the wheels in 1-1/4" each side. Pretty much exactly what BigD experienced.

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by mtnbikerxt

I believe I read somewhere that CPP uses the same casting for all of their drop spindles and simply drills for the different balljoint and tierod tapers.

Not just CPP,... but all the spindle companies do this.^^^
Belltech, McGaughy's, Western Chassis, etc.
It only makes economical sense to have one casting with different balljoint and outer tie rod taper sizes,... because this is the only difference in the 60-87 spindles.

They are available in 4 difference sizes using the same casting.
60-62
63-70
71-72
73-87

They all utilize the HD 1.25" wide rotors, calipers and bearings that came on the 71-87 trucks.

The CPP Modular spindles also use these same parts when using the 12" kit.
The 13" big Brake Modular set up uses the same bearings, on a fabricated hub.
This hub has a 13" hat style rotor that slips on over the hub.
With a bolt on bracket they use a different caliper.
(I believe they are late model Silverado calipers,... unlike the standard C10 D52 caliper)

All the track width changes are speculation,... in my opinion.
There is too much conflicting info being put out here and other message boards for me to ever repeat any of it as fact.

[JOHNORO]

Hope this helps...

[mtnbikerxt]

John, I have seen that document and it is linked above. I was about ready to order but decided to talk to CPP beforehand due to the lack of clarity in their documentation (catalog, website, etc.) Unfortunately, the customer service rep I spoke with did not provide the same information as found on the sheet you provided. This has caused a great deal of confusion on what exactly these spindles do to the track width of these trucks.

Can I ask where you got the sheet you have? I haven't seen it layed out like that before with dimensions 'from drum' and 'from disc' listed for all part numbers. Thanks!

[Bennett68C10]

Originally Posted by big d's red67

This my truck Tommy is refering to, my track width from the out side of the tire to outside of the tire was 77 inches, after the install of the CPP modular spindles it was 74 9/16th inches from outside to outside of the tires.

Do you have the part number for the spindles you are using. Are they 2.5" drop or 2". I'm thinking about changing over to the modular spindles to gain a little fender clearance. Are you running 12" rotors and Wilwood d52's or a big brake kit.

[JOHNORO]

Originally Posted by mtnbikerxt

John, I have seen that document and it is linked above. I was about ready to order but decided to talk to CPP beforehand due to the lack of clarity in their documentation (catalog, website, etc.) Unfortunately, the customer service rep I spoke with did not provide the same information as found on the sheet you provided. This has caused a great deal of confusion on what exactly these spindles do to the track width of these trucks.

Can I ask where you got the sheet you have? I haven't seen it layed out like that before with dimensions 'from drum' and 'from disc' listed for all part numbers. Thanks!

I got the spec sheet while I was at Cpp yesterday. ..
They told me that this info is in the back of th new catalog as well as online, but they printed that particular sheet while there asking for clarification.
Javier or Jeff are the guys I ask for whenever I need anything answered..

[lolife99]

The confusion still exists.
Nothing in that chart matches up with this statement about 1-1/8".
(that would be 9/16" per side or 1-1/8" per side)


QUOTE:
Looking for a spindle and brake kit for your lowered truck with big tires and wheels? CPP's introduces their new modular 2" drop spindle and drop spindle wheel kits for 1960-87 Chevy pickups. This exclusive new “Simple Offset Solution” or SOS™ design helps solve tire to fender interference commonly found with lowered trucks. This new SOS™ technology was designed to address concerns about using aftermarket big wheels and tires by using different spindle/rotor offsets. Classic Performance’s new modular spindle and bracket works with factory 1971-87 C10 brake components, or for a HIGH performance option, combine CPP’s spindle with their new Big Brake 13" Rotor, Twin 52mm Piston Brake Caliper kit.
Classic Performance’s new Modular Spindle offers many benefits available for the first time, installs easy without modifications, works with factory ball joints and tie rod ends, lowers your truck a full 2", offers adjustable steering stops, provides 1-1/8" more fender to tire clearance, allows use with standard factory brakes and performance aftermarket "BIG" Brake Kits

[lolife99]

Then only this that can be assumed,... is that the CPP Modular spindles provide the "narrowest" track width.
We just don't know how much.

So don't buy your wheels or a-arm using any numbers other than what you have on your own tape measure, (in front of you),... after you have installed your spindles.
Whichever brand you choose to buy.

[big d's red67]

Originally Posted by Bennett68C10

Do you have the part number for the spindles you are using. Are they 2.5" drop or 2". I'm thinking about changing over to the modular spindles to gain a little fender clearance. Are you running 12" rotors and Wilwood d52's or a big brake kit.

I do not have a part number for the old spindles they came in the disc brake kit that I bought. They are 2.5inch drop and I am running 12inch rotors with the Wilwood d52's. If you are want more tire to fender clearance I would recommend doing it.

[big d's red67]

[QUOTE=lolife99;6607765]The confusion still exists.
Nothing in that chart matches up with this statement about 1-1/8".
(that would be 5/8" per side or 1-1/8" per side)


We know for sure they will narrow the track width a little over an inch per side if you go from regular aftermarket drop spindles to the modular drop spindles.

[ksbrktracer]

Originally Posted by Bennett68C10

Do you have the part number for the spindles you are using. Are they 2.5" drop or 2". I'm thinking about changing over to the modular spindles to gain a little fender clearance. Are you running 12" rotors and Wilwood d52's or a big brake kit.

Keith
Dennis is using just the standard CPP modular spindle and bracket # CP30106-2 and bracket # 6087dbk . Those #'s are for a 63-70 balljoint. They are a 2" Drop.

[tony58]

That CPP list is typical of their inaccuracies. They have listed change compared to drum for 1971/72, show me 71/72 that came with front drums

[ksbrktracer]

There is alot of information about drops out there (LoLife being one of the most knowledgable on the sight) ... CPP has done a really good job of confusing it for sure. If they would have come out and said that our spindle will do X it would have been way better for them.
When Dennis (big d's red67 ) bought spindles we werent positive what would happen , we only had the info that CPP had given us over the phone. This was my first experience with the modular spindle. I was pleasantly surprised when they showed up at the quality of the spindle, brackets and hardware.
Dennis has a killer truck with the Eagle 225's and 4.5" backspace 20X8.5's on the front. It was a new build when I met him at the Starbird Show. At that point he hadnt driven it much I dont believe. A few days later he came to my Shop and we talked about the tires rubbing on the fender well and what might fix it. Experience told me that a wheel with more backspacing would definitely help but he liked the wheels on the truck so we talked about other options available and settled on trying the modular spindles hoping that they would do what they (CPP) said they would do. As you can see by his own account they fixed his problem .... they pulled the wheels in enough that they do not rub now. Dont forget though .... he went from 2.5'' to 2.0'' drop on the spindles.

I guess my whole point is that CPP modular spindles do narrow the front track compared to other spindles that are out there (Dennis's truck proves that without a doubt) . Yes there is some debate as to how much and I dont think anyone has done a definitive test to know exactly how much . But if you are in a position were you need to narrow the track on your truck .... I think the modular spindles are a viable option and probably one of the most reasonable ways to do so given the other options out there (narrowed control arms, different backspacing etc).

[sduckworth13]

Thanks Tommy for the info.

[sduckworth13]

Tommy, looks like a 20x8.5 with 4.5 in backspace on the front is the perfect choice if using the CPP modular drop spindle. What is the backspace on the rear wheels?

[ksbrktracer]

Originally Posted by sduckworth13

Tommy, looks like a 20x8.5 with 4.5 in backspace on the front is the perfect choice if using the CPP modular drop spindle. What is the backspace on the rear wheels?

Im gonna have to let Dennis answer that ... Im not sure , I Know he has 20X10's .

I will tell you that when I sell back wheels I reccommend 20X10's with 5.50 backspace for a fleetside with the wide rear axle . And depending on the drop a 285/40/20 or 295/40/20 tire with something along the lines of a 255/40/20 on the front and a 20X8.5 with 5.25 backspace when using standard drop spindles

[sduckworth13]

Thank you.

[big d's red67]

Originally Posted by ksbrktracer

Dont forget though .... he went from 2.5'' to 2.0'' drop on the spindles.

They really isn't that much different in the drop amount. Less than a 1/4 of an inch.

[big d's red67]

Originally Posted by sduckworth13

Tommy, looks like a 20x8.5 with 4.5 in backspace on the front is the perfect choice if using the CPP modular drop spindle. What is the backspace on the rear wheels?

They are 20x10 with 5.5inch BS.

[sduckworth13]

Thank you for all the info.