Strong Arms (tubular) vs. Stock A arm

[jlaird]

Originally Posted by shifty

10% + free shipping and you got a deal

Paypal or otherwise, I'm all fired up and ready to go

Shifty, go to www.stylintrucks.com and sign up for their email newsletter. They frequently have 10-15% off specials and free shipping deals. I once had them down to $400 for the airride lowers.

Josh

[DKN]

Some more info for you;

The CPP lower control arms come fully assembled on new 4130 billet shafts, patented non squeak bushings, and with the correct ball joints for year. These are designed to go as low as possible. The lowest part of the front suspension will be the U-bolt that goes around the cross shaft. The second lowest point is the cross member, the third lowest point will be the arm. This applies to both the coil spring and air bag control arms.

Stay away from arms that lower your truck. They move the spring mount down. This means the arm is the lowest point; this lost ground clearance will limit how low the truck can go. Also stay away from any arm that uses a “rubber” spring isolator. In order for that to work you will loose precious ground clearance.

The CPP upper control arms are made longer so that the truck can be easily aligned after it is lowered with coils or bags. These also come fully assembled on new 4130 shafts, patented non squeak bushings, and the correct ball joint for you year.

Danny Nix
CPP

[jlaird]

thanks dan from CPP. Now what kind of discount do you offer to 67-72 board members?

[DKN]

We offer everyone a discount!!
Send me a PM with what you are looking for.

Danny Nix
CPP

[72BlckButy]

Dan I've heard that other board members have had issues with receiving parts and overall poor customer relations... has this changed?

How do your products compare to ECE?

[nuke1]

i just recieved my order from them, disc kit, coils, shocks, upper tubular control arms anf i had no prolems with them at all, now if i would have know about the deal!!!lol oh well

[shifty]

Originally Posted by nuke1

i just recieved my order from them, disc kit, coils, shocks, upper tubular control arms anf i had no prolems with them at all, now if i would have know about the deal!!!lol oh well

I tend to think that CPP gets a bum rap. I just ordered ~$700 worth of parts from them in the past month or two (over 3-4 orders) and had absolutely zero problems, and great service. Two orders ago, UPS delivered one of my boxes damaged, I refused, they promptly refunded everything I returned with no questions asked and absolutely zero hassle (including shipping) and got out another order to me ASAP. Then, when I realized the bumpstops, hardware and instructions were accidentally left out of my notch kit OR were shipped in the box I had to return b/c UPS damaged it, Javier (I think?) promptly got those other parts out to me as well.

All in all, their service has been great - everyone has a bad day, and it's unfortunate, but it happens. Hell, the first part I ever ordered from ECE was their nice replacement tranny crossmember - and it arrived with one corner dinged in and a crack in the powdercoat (which I patched up). I'll be damned though - ECE's parts are great as are CPP's, and Mark and the other guys at ECE and the guys at CPP also are great, they all put out quality products (although, as with everyone, seems like everything is overpriced everywher eby ~20%, especially ECE with their $800 replacement gas tanks )

Ultimately, I bought CPP's tubular tranny crossmember to replace the ECE one, because I feel CPP's piece it's of better quality and fitment, IMO. They have their benefits - I like CPP's notch, ECE's shock relocation kit, CPP's tubular tranny crossmember, ART's tubular arms...unfortunately, no single manufacturer makes all the bomb-ass parts.

I think it's all a matter of interpretation - and you know how it goes - one or two people have problems with an order, or gets a salesperson on a bad day, tells their friend, then they tell a forum online and all of a sudden....EVERYONE says they suck, and EVERYONE had a bad experience.

Take everything with a grain of salt.

And Dan - welcome to the forum. It's unfortunate that you came when you did, because if I'd have known there was any chance to get a discount through CPP, I'd possibly have ordered my tubular arms from them. I learned about your 67-87 related tubular suspension stuff via CCT, from the articles you guys did between Nov 2006 -January 2007. I actually just cracked those open tonight to re-learn how to install the notch I just bought from you guys.

Can you tell me something - are your tubular arms setup and ready to go for bolting in airbags? The ones you installed in CCT had the lowers molded for springs, but there didn't seem to be provisions to bolt a bag to it.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by DKN

Some more info for you . . .... The CPP upper control arms are made longer so that the truck can be easily aligned after it is lowered with coils or bags. These also come fully assembled on new 4130 shafts, patented non squeak bushings, and the correct ball joint for you year.

Danny Nix
CPP

First.... Welcome to the site. I've used CPP parts w/positive results so I would say I'm a loyal customer.

I really don't get this logic so maybe you can shed some light. Someone that would buy a-arms that help lower their truck is going to be concerned w/clearances. The 'down-side' (pun intended) to lowering w/OE parts is that more shims are required to regain proper alignment. Those extra shims widen the track width which in turn reduces some of that clearance lowered vehicles need.

If you're making arms from scratch anyway...... why not shorten the lower arms vs. lengthening the uppers? Shorter lower arms will keep the track width near stock or maybe even narrow it slightly, either way helps clearance issues.

Just to be clear, I'm not picking on just CPP.

Air-Ride did something similar. When their Strong-Arms first came out the lower a-arm shock mount was the lowest part of the arm...... meaning the first thing that would contact pavement. The explanation was that when these arms were prototyped, the truck used stock spindles so there was no issue w/the mount being too low.

How many guys swap in an air suspension that aren't trying to get that sucker lowwwwwww?? One of the first & easiest ways to get low is using drop spindles. I know there's alot of guys w/older trucks that don't/won't swap to discs. But I'd being willing to bet there's more 'classic trucks' out there that do have discs & use drop spindles for lowering.

Of course, ART's arms have now been revised to correct this 'flaw'.

[PrerunnerRob]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

First.... Welcome to the site. I've used CPP parts w/positive results so I would say I'm a loyal customer.

I really don't get this logic so maybe you can shed some light. Someone that would buy a-arms that help lower their truck is going to be concerned w/clearances. The 'down-side' (pun intended) to lowering w/OE parts is that more shims are required to regain proper alignment. Those extra shims widen the track width which in turn reduces some of that clearance lowered vehicles need.

If you're making arms from scratch anyway...... why not shorten the lower arms vs. lengthening the uppers? Shorter lower arms will keep the track width near stock or maybe even narrow it slightly, either way helps clearance issues.

Just to be clear, I'm not picking on just CPP.

Air-Ride did something similar. When their Strong-Arms first came out the lower a-arm shock mount was the lowest part of the arm...... meaning the first thing that would contact pavement. The explanation was that when these arms were prototyped, the truck used stock spindles so there was no issue w/the mount being too low.

How many guys swap in an air suspension that aren't trying to get that sucker lowwwwwww?? One of the first & easiest ways to get low is using drop spindles. I know there's alot of guys w/older trucks that don't/won't swap to discs. But I'd being willing to bet there's more 'classic trucks' out there that do have discs & use drop spindles for lowering.

Of course, ART's arms have now been revised to correct this 'flaw'.

I thought about the shortening the lower instead of lengthing the upper before, and the only thing I could come up with was having to do with steering components. At some point you will just run out of steering tie rod adjustment, and by lengthening the uppers you are placing the spindle back into the vertical plane(when viewed from the front ) that it was previously in. I guess you could manufacture a shorter outer tie rod end, but his would add to the cost of a kit. Just my ideas on this, but maybe I am missing something entirely.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by PrerunnerRob

I thought about the shortening the lower instead of lengthing the upper before, and the only thing I could come up with was having to do with steering components. At some point you will just run out of steering tie rod adjustment, and by lengthening the uppers you are placing the spindle back into the vertical plane(when viewed from the front ) that it was previously in. I guess you could manufacture a shorter outer tie rod end, but his would add to the cost of a kit. Just my ideas on this, but maybe I am missing something entirely.

I'm not talking about narrowing the track width 2"..... that might cause issues. I'm saying narrow the lowers however much the uppers are being lengthened to avoid adding those pesky "extra shims" (.500 ~.750"??).

This would keep track width right around stock.

[shifty]

do the current ART tubular arms use the stock shock mounting hole on the framerail, or do they come with some kind of adapter to adjust/strengthen the shock mount?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by shifty

do the current ART tubular arms use the stock shock mounting hole on the framerail, or do they come with some kind of adapter to adjust/strengthen the shock mount?

They come w/an adapter for the frame that raises/reinforces the top mounting location.

[shifty]

Drilling required? I know CPP arms showed the install as needing to extend the stock hole, weld a washer on the backside for stability, then install their adapter.

(trying to figure out if I need to get this done before frame goes off for blast & powdercoat)

[jlaird]

Originally Posted by shifty

Drilling required? I know CPP arms showed the install as needing to extend the stock hole, weld a washer on the backside for stability, then install their adapter.

(trying to figure out if I need to get this done before frame goes off for blast & powdercoat)

I wouldn't worry about drilling a bolt hole in powdercoat, but it would be convenient to have it done beforehand.

To answer somebody's question above, there are two versions of the CPP lowers, one with spring mount and one for an airbag.

[craig@ridetech.com]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Air-Ride did something similar. When their Strong-Arms first came out the lower a-arm shock mount was the lowest part of the arm...... meaning the first thing that would contact pavement. The explanation was that when these arms were prototyped, the truck used stock spindles so there was no issue w/the mount being too low.

How many guys swap in an air suspension that aren't trying to get that sucker lowwwwwww?? One of the first & easiest ways to get low is using drop spindles. I know there's alot of guys w/older trucks that don't/won't swap to discs. But I'd being willing to bet there's more 'classic trucks' out there that do have discs & use drop spindles for lowering.

Of course, ART's arms have now been revised to correct this 'flaw'.

Just to shed some light on this issue. When we first started building the StrongArms for the C-10's we were trying to keep it as simple as we could, thus, we retained the factory shock mount on the frame for the front kit even when using our arms. The truck we did the original fitment on did in fact have dropped spindles, but we never encountered any problems with the shock mount "hitting" the ground. This may have been due to the wheel/tire combo on that truck.(please don't ask what that was cause I can't remember to save my ass) After some time we started getting feedback from some of our customers as to the shock mount being an issue when getting your truck as low as possible. this made us take a second look at the design, and after some consideration we decided that it would make the most sense to relocate the shock tab to the upper side of the control arm for the added clearance, then build a new shock relocating bracket to replace the factory frame stud. This allows the truck to get low without compromising the shock travel or worry about ripping the shock bracket off the arm.

[72BlckButy]

Thanks for the shed of light on the subject Shifty. I figured that some orders might have had "outside influences" affect their outcome, but it's good to hear that you and several other members have had good luck with them. Their kits tend to be a little cheaper than ECE's so I didn't know how they could account for the cheaper price.

Danny (DKN) first off welcome to the board. It's good to have some of the top named distributors on the board. I bet you would receive quite a few orders from members if you became a board supporter. Don't feel like I was striking against CPP, because from what I've seen you sell some great products, heck Classic Parts of America sells quite a few. My build will suck every penny I have to put it together, like many other members, so I'm just looking for the best deal on price without sacrificing quality.

Again welcome to the board!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by LSC71

Just to shed some light on this issue. When we first started building the StrongArms for the C-10's we were trying to keep it as simple as we could, thus, we retained the factory shock mount on the frame for the front kit even when using our arms. The truck we did the original fitment on did in fact have dropped spindles, but we never encountered any problems with the shock mount "hitting" the ground.

I had seen it posted on here (from an ART source) that the spindles on the truck were OE/factory units so this is where I derived that detail. My apologies for the incorrect information.

[craig@ridetech.com]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I had seen it posted on here (from an ART source) that the spindles on the truck were OE/factory units so this is where I derived that detail. My apologies for the incorrect information.

No worries, I should be the one to apologize for you getting the wrong information. Believe me, whoever posted that truly believed thats what the case was, but I just wanted you to have the correct info. Just like most guys we have communication issues here as well.

[DKN]

First I want to thank everyone for the warm welcome response. I will to try to answer as many of these questions as I can. If I miss one ask me again.

The shock mount in the magazine: The truck came to us with the frame damaged at both shock mounts. The welding was done only to repair the frame back to the original strength. The shock studs are available new. And the reinforcing bracket is our version of the bracket GM used on the 4 wheel drive shock mounts. We cleaned up the appearance a bit, but the true credit for the concept belongs to GM.

The lower control arms are available in an air bag version, the rear trailing arms work with air bags or coils.
We did not shorten the lower arms because there was a measurable difference in bump steer.

There is a new spindle and brake kit shipping in the next couple of months. The spindle is a 2-1/2” drop that does not move the wheels out wider like every other drop spindle made. These are intended to be used with larger wheels that the OE 15 inch. The spindle does not have a caliper mount cast into itself. Instead there are 2 large mounting bosses that accept a caliper mounting bracket. We have 5 and 6 lugs hubs made from billet aluminum. The hubs are a little wider than a drum brake hub, but almost 1 inch narrower than factory disc brake. This new hub will pull the wheels in away from the fender. We have 13 inch rotors in stock now, and Wilwood should have finished their 14 and 16 rotor kits by the time these spindles ship. We also have the rear big brakes ready for these. These spindles will be available with all of the ball joint tapers to fit which ever year truck you have. So we have addressed the need to narrow up the front end a little differently, and you do not need to buy new arms to do it.

If you have any other questions just ask.

Danny Nix
CPP

[XXL]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

ART's tubular arms offer revised geometry for the lower ride height vs. stock arms.

IIRC, the KPI changes from a stock 4° to 2°

Tony??

[XXL]

Originally Posted by LSC71

This allows the truck to get low without compromising the shock travel or worry about ripping the shock bracket off the arm.

Oops... too late. I got one of the first-run sets. Had to fix them myself.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by DKN

There is a new spindle and brake kit shipping in the next couple of months. The spindle is a 2-1/2” drop that does not move the wheels out wider like every other drop spindle made. These are intended to be used with larger wheels that the OE 15 inch. The spindle does not have a caliper mount cast into itself. Instead there are 2 large mounting bosses that accept a caliper mounting bracket. We have 5 and 6 lugs hubs made from billet aluminum. The hubs are a little wider than a drum brake hub, but almost 1 inch narrower than factory disc brake. This new hub will pull the wheels in away from the fender. We have 13 inch rotors in stock now, and Wilwood should have finished their 14 and 16 rotor kits by the time these spindles ship. We also have the rear big brakes ready for these. These spindles will be available with all of the ball joint tapers to fit which ever year truck you have. So we have addressed the need to narrow up the front end a little differently, and you do not need to buy new arms to do it.

If you have any other questions just ask.

Danny Nix
CPP

I recall seeing a couple of different manufacturers making 'new' spindles that readily accept larger calipers & rotors (CPP & Hotchkiss to be exact).

What calipers? Is the rotor a spec made piece or off the shelf stuff that's machined for the truck 5x5/ 5x6.5 patterns? Solid, drilled, or multiple options?

And the big question everyone always wants to know..... how much? Do you have to purchase an entire kit or are other options available?

Originally Posted by DKN

We did not shorten the lower arms because there was a measurable difference in bump steer.

Makes sense. I just didn't think less that 1" would make a "measurable difference" but I'm glad you guys researched that fact.

[DKN]

The CPP rotor is a CPP design. We use it in all of our 13 inch front and 12 inch rear. We make them with a different hub pilot hole and lug patterns for the various applications. We plan on offering the spindle by itself and in different kits. It will work with the factory disc and calipers; the caliper bracket for this is also in stock now.
As far as the cost I expect them to be close to the same price they are now.
I can not tell you exactly how the Wilwood kits will be, that’s up to them. In the past when we complete a new spindle design we have sent 1 spindle to all of the brake manufactures who asked for one of them so that they can make their own brake kits.
By the way this was on display at SEMA with different optional upgrades to the brakes.

Danny Nix
CPP

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by DKN

The CPP rotor is a CPP design. We use it in all of our 13 inch front and 12 inch rear. We make them with a different hub pilot hole and lug patterns for the various applications. We plan on offering the spindle by itself and in different kits. It will work with the factory disc and calipers; the caliper bracket for this is also in stock now.
As far as the cost I expect them to be close to the same price they are now.
I can not tell you exactly how the Wilwood kits will be, that’s up to them. In the past when we complete a new spindle design we have sent 1 spindle to all of the brake manufactures who asked for one of them so that they can make their own brake kits.
By the way this was on display at SEMA with different optional upgrades to the brakes.

Danny Nix
CPP

I remember seeing something about these coming soon when I visited your web site recently.

[Couch]

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

are these junk?