speaker placement

[bcbasketball11]

Once again, thanks much. . .but on the baffles. . .are there good vs. bad or is a pretty simple kind of thing? Since i'm making the kick panel for the components, should i use baffles? What about the tweets?

[72swb_327stroker_?]

bcb, yes you should use baffles. i'm sorry, did i not tell you that... i must be getting old! anyhow,yup most baffles are pretty simple and similar. baffles are used for a bass reflex additive in smaller speakers.they help by sealing the surrounding area of the speaker, thus increasing performance by reducing extra speaker cone travel(hyper-extension) that happens when a speaker doesn't have enough air resistance. if you are making kick panels and you haven't completely sealed the inside with fiberglass or some sort of sealer, the speaker will be over-worked and lose performance. adding baffles to any speaker (6x9",5",5-1/4",6",6-1/2",6-3/4",5x7",4",4x10",4x6",6x8") will increase the overall sound quality and speaker life by doing all of the mentioned above. tweeters are too small to benefit from a baffle. they only produce higher frequencies and are created differently than a midrange speaker. baffles are our friends!
let me know if i can answer anything else for you guys! this is fun

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by 72swb_327stroker_?

bcb, yes you should use baffles. i'm sorry, did i not tell you that... i must be getting old! anyhow,yup most baffles are pretty simple and similar. baffles are used for a bass reflex additive in smaller speakers.they help by sealing the surrounding area of the speaker, thus increasing performance by reducing extra speaker cone travel(hyper-extension) that happens when a speaker doesn't have enough air resistance. if you are making kick panels and you haven't completely sealed the inside with fiberglass or some sort of sealer, the speaker will be over-worked and lose performance. adding baffles to any speaker (6x9",5",5-1/4",6",6-1/2",6-3/4",5x7",4",4x10",4x6",6x8") will increase the overall sound quality and speaker life by doing all of the mentioned above. tweeters are too small to benefit from a baffle. they only produce higher frequencies and are created differently than a midrange speaker. baffles are our friends!
let me know if i can answer anything else for you guys! this is fun

Haha it's ok, you have provided an incredible amount of information, a mall slip is more than ok lol. . .but on the kick panels, by sealing do you mean lining with polyfill (or something of that sort)? since it is a solid structure i wasn't sure what joints existed to be sealed lol. i will check for baffles and all that good stuff, thanks much one more time haha. another question, sorta off subject but you enjoy this so why not? haha. . .my friend has his system set up in an 84 jimmy, two subs in the back with an amp run to them from the headunit, and then the smaller amp runs from that amp and powers the two 6x9's. . .the 6x9,s will shut off sometimes but as soon as we turn the truck off then back on they kick on, but shut off soon again. . .any suggestiion?

[eightbanger]

Are you pretending to be one half of Bang & Olufsen again 72 swb?

[Mondo]

I have to admit I put some nice speakers in those prefab kickpanels and am very dissappointed. It sounds like the music is bouncing off everything before it reaches me. My 10 inch bass sounds good though.

I sounddeadened/insulated everything from below the dash to up behind the rear window, including the doors..... But I think all that exposed metal (dash, roof etcc..) doesn't help anything.

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by Mondo

I have to admit I put some nice speakers in those prefab kickpanels and am very dissappointed. It sounds like the music is bouncing off everything before it reaches me. My 10 inch bass sounds good though.

I sounddeadened/insulated everything from below the dash to up behind the rear window, including the doors..... But I think all that exposed metal (dash, roof etcc..) doesn't help anything.

Are the speakers angled toward you? My friend has a '68 with prefab k/p and his are angled more towards the center seat and not quite up enough. .so the sound hits the front of the seat and bounces around from there? Just a thought. . .because he fixed that and it's good now. . .but swb72 knows a lot more than me. . .

[72swb_327stroker_?]

Originally Posted by eightbanger

Are you pretending to be one half of Bang & Olufsen again 72 swb?

yeah, i am definitely bang! olufsen sounds questionable!

and bcb, that amp shutting down can be a number of problems. is the amp for the 6x9's running its own power, ground, remote/lead, and rca's? or is it running as a satellite/slave amp from the sub(master) amp. if they are each running separate wires than check the grounds, and the power... if they are running as a master, and slave... then the sub amp is drawing the majority of the majority of the current, leaving litlle for the slave which is why it keeps turning off. try running the 6x9 amp to its own source of power and separate rca's tho the head unit. if it has its own wires and it is doing this it could be an overheating problem. do they have good airflow? try running a pc fan, like the ones inside your computer tower. mount the amps on a board with 1/2" to 1" spacers to vent the amps, mount the fan on the side of the overheating amp and run the power in a piggy-back to the lead/remote wire. this way its only on when the amps are on, or a lighted switch. if it is run from its own separate cables, then try running a capacitor for a backup of power when the amps draw extra power for bigger bass notes, or louder volume play.

as for the kick panels, its always a good idea to run polyfill but thats not what i was talking about. i meant when you build the kick panels, if using fiberglass resin remember to seal the back side that you wont see so that it is airtight. if you can't seal it completely then run baffles. this is so the speaker has air/space resistance to perform better/ sound more precise and clear.

and yes mondo, bcb is right! also try filling with polyfill. do your speakers have separate tweeters, or are they integrated? if integrated do they swivel/move. if so angle the both of them towards the driver's headrest.

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by 72swb_327stroker_?

yeah, i am definitely bang! olufsen sounds questionable!

and bcb, that amp shutting down can be a number of problems. is the amp for the 6x9's running its own power, ground, remote/lead, and rca's? or is it running as a satellite/slave amp from the sub(master) amp. if they are each running separate wires than check the grounds, and the power... if they are running as a master, and slave... then the sub amp is drawing the majority of the majority of the current, leaving litlle for the slave which is why it keeps turning off. try running the 6x9 amp to its own source of power and separate rca's tho the head unit. if it has its own wires and it is doing this it could be an overheating problem. do they have good airflow? try running a pc fan, like the ones inside your computer tower. mount the amps on a board with 1/2" to 1" spacers to vent the amps, mount the fan on the side of the overheating amp and run the power in a piggy-back to the lead/remote wire. this way its only on when the amps are on, or a lighted switch. if it is run from its own separate cables, then try running a capacitor for a backup of power when the amps draw extra power for bigger bass notes, or louder volume play.

as for the kick panels, its always a good idea to run polyfill but thats not what i was talking about. i meant when you build the kick panels, if using fiberglass resin remember to seal the back side that you wont see so that it is airtight. if you can't seal it completely then run baffles. this is so the speaker has air/space resistance to perform better/ sound more precise and clear.

and yes mondo, bcb is right! also try filling with polyfill. do your speakers have separate tweeters, or are they integrated? if integrated do they swivel/move. if so angle the both of them towards the driver's headrest.

Right now it's having tranny problems, so when he gets the tranny out of the shop, i'll see if we can figure it out.. . .and YAY i was right!!! lol

[Mondo]

These are the kickpanels you can buy from places like Brothers etc.... Their coaxiel speakers along with a 10in bass behind the seat and 6X9 in the corners behind the seats pointing 45% inward (gas tank removed). They actually point at each other - straight across. I'll have to check and see if the speakers are in their own little box or just screwed into the plastic which then lays up against the metal kickpanel itself.

I'm not expecting perfection, it just sounds like I'm getting the sound bounced around if that makes sense.
Not the best pic because it's all black PVC

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by Mondo

These are the kickpanels you can buy from Brothers etc.... The actually point at each other - straight across. I'll have to check and see if the speakers are in their own little box or just screwed into the plastic which then lays up against the metal kickpanel itself.

I'm not expecting perfection, it just sounds like I'm getting the sound bounced around if that makes sense.

Yeah i know the ones you are talking about, they make the speaker shoot across to each other. . .letting the souund bounce off of the firewall area before it gets to you. . .are the back pieces solid? If so, maybe you could mount them on an angled piece of wood to point them towards you?? just a though so don't hold me to it lol. . .

[Mondo]

There's not much room between the cover and the cab sheetmetal (don't want to cut it up) but I know what your saying.... perhaps angle the speakers behind that grill. I'll check that out too. Thanks for the advice.

[bcbasketball11]

Haha glad I could help. . .not a whole lot of knowledge in this type of thing, but glad my little bit helped!! Hope it makes a difference. . .

Chase

[72swb_327stroker_?]

damn bcb your good!
did you figure out your friends problem with the amp?

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by 72swb_327stroker_?

damn bcb your good!
did you figure out your friends problem with the amp?

lol nah i ain't good. . .just using a little intuition and initiative. but thanks anyways!!

. .but it's still in the shop so we wont be able to until i think tuesday. . .i'm pretty sure if we run the little amp from the headunit it will fix the problem, it's "master/slave" run right now. . .and the 6x9s dont sound as loud as i personally think they should. . .but i will update you when i figure it out. . .haha

[72swb_327stroker_?]

sweet.
let me know

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by 72swb_327stroker_?

sweet.
let me know

I called him and he said it's gonna be out and ready by tuesday for sure. . .so we will re wire it then and see how it goes!

And as for my truck, i'm selling the 6x9's i have right now for $75 (price check on that, i don't know how much i should sell them for, they were a gift from my step dad- Alpine SPS-690A) and i'm selling this guitar i have for $85. . .and then i'm gonna go work with my step dad for a little bit and will have the money to start MY truck. . .i'm so pumped haha. I will post pics before and after of every aspect when i get started!!

Thanks guys!!!

Chase

[blukangoo]

Originally Posted by bcbasketball11

I live in OK and have ridiculous wind speeds regularly and driving it without the system, all I hear is wind whistling and blowing around me.

I just bought window and door seals for my truck and am hoping for a differnce when I get them put in one of these days.
I have 1400 Watts in my Renault. I don´t hear any wind whistling when I drive it.

[bcbasketball11]

Haha, i can imagine why. . .lol looks nice. . . , when you get them in let us know if it helped!!

Thanks,

Chase

[BigSky71]

Hey 72swb_327stroker I have a question about the kick panels. I built a set for my truck with JL 6.5 mid and tweets VR650 model. I pointed them towards the driver, but I don't think they are all that crisp. I am running them on a Kicker 100x2 amp from a Kenwood head unit.

I am wondering about the sealing of the kicks. I used 1/4" brown board for the base then stretched cotton and applied my resin to them. Should I add some resin to the inside to seal up the brown board material? Also I wonder if I should have placed my tweeter nearer to me rather than behind the 6.5". Here is a few pictures of the kicks without the speakers in them. I appreciate your ideas on these.

[Brad]

Yes, your tweets should be closer to you. In fact, Frizzle Fry has his mounted on the dash where the AC balls would be.

[CG]

Originally Posted by streetstar

Funny -- nobody here has mentioned anything close to my setup
(Alpine head unit and "540 peak rMs" amp connected to 2 6x9's in Pep Boys speaker boxes placed loosely behind the seat)

I'm laughing on the inside

Niiiiice...My radio plays AM only and through the stock speaker in the middle of the dash =)

I be laughing with you.


Oh and Brad when (if) I get my panel on the road I'm coming to you for audio help. I had no idea you knew so much about that stuff.

[72swb_327stroker_?]

hey bigsky, nice job! they really look great!

as for clarity with those vr's... yes the tweeter would sound clearer in front but dont separate them from the mids. the tweeters dont need to be sealed in the kick panel.(by the way, i have the same ones)...so what you can do without having to build a new set, is try building up the back side of the tweeter's mounting surface to angle them in, more towards you. if you mount them on the dash or up higher they will be unbalanced, the mid will just be working away all by itself down there with no highs to complete it how much lead of wire do they come with from the factory? i think my set of vr's didnt come with more than a foot or so to connect to the crossover. also, what is the crossover set to? the head unit? those kenwoods have some nice fine tuning features eq-wise. make sure your mids and tweets are running in the correct frequencies. is the amp they are running from coming out of the front channel or rear? how many speakers are you using in your set up? are you using a front and rear channel? here is a nice write up and tutorial explaining frequencies and eq basics. this should help to set up and fine tune any system to your specific needs(sound-wise). http://www.dak.com/reviews/Tutorial_frequencies.cfm
also i think that sealing up the inside of your kick panels will help a great deal. it looks like there might be too much airspace for the mids to perform right. just a suggestion. hope this helps! get back to me about how you are running everything.
thanks!

[BigSky71]

Yea, I know those speakers can sound better than they do right now. I have the crossovers inside the enclosure behind the mids. Because they are right there I didn't have to use much wire. I can't remember what I set my crossovers to but I can pull the mids out and see. Those kick panels are easy enough to build I think I will build a new set that are taller and move the tweeters to the front side. I never thought about the air space being too much, I guess that will happen with the way I turned the mids towards the drivers seat.

I am running the 100x2 amp off on set the RCAs, not sure if they are divided front channel or not [can't remember, truck is storage]. I have my 1000w Kicker running off the sub out RCAs which run four 10" Elemental Designs 10s behind the seat, sealed box 1.5 cubic feet. I am happy with the sub output, just need to mount that box properly this Spring.

I have found the Kenwood head unit to have alot of tuning possibilities. I will read that article and find out what I am supposed to send to those mids and tweeters, thanks for the link. I played around with that tuning alot and found that my fronts sounded better with the head unit crossover moved up from stock [eliminating some of the mid tones I think]. That may be because those kicks are too large. When I build them again do I need to maintain the "towards the driver" angle of the 6.5"s. I could create a little less air space if I flattened out the way they are mounted.

Thanks for the help. I know that setup can sound good I just need to get it right.

[bcbasketball11]

72swb, do you think I should move the tweets to the front side of the 6.5s when i build my kick panels? i never thought of that

thanks, Chase

[Brad]

Originally Posted by CG

Oh and Brad when (if) I get my panel on the road I'm coming to you for audio help. I had no idea you knew so much about that stuff.

Mark, I'd be happy to help. It's really not as complicated as it may 'sound' like. (pun intended!) But I could help with speaker placement and how to wire it up correctly using 'ohms' to get you 'oooooss' and 'ahhhhs'.
By the time yours gets out of paint booth jail, I'll have mine wired up to impress, so you'll be able to hear.......and feel, the sound.