speaker placement

[bcbasketball11]

I am currently focusing all attention out side of school and basketball on the stereo of my baby. I have put much thought and research into my decision and have come to a conclusion. I am going to use frizzle fry's thread about kicker panel's to make those which I feel I will do fine on. I have tweeters and after much thought I, personally, think that placing them in the top corners (just outside the visors) and angling them towards the seat would be the best way. I will surface mount them as to prevent metal cutting. If anyone has better ideas on that area, please comment. I am purchasing a 10" R- series Alpine sub and going to build a center floor console box for that. If anyone has thoughts on that, once again please comment. My main focus of the thread though, is what are the most efficient ways to make the truck as air and water tight as possible? (mostly air) I live in OK and have ridiculous wind speeds regularly and driving it without the system, all I hear is wind whistling and blowing around me.


Anything will be appreciated, being 16 and very inexperienced, this is my first vehicle and I am doing as much of it as possible without help as to learn and understand for myself. I'm very skilled in any craft or woodworking so skill required will not be a problem. Experience on the other hand, haha.



-Chase \m/ rock on \m/

[bcbasketball11]

ALSO -

I WILL POST PICS OF INTERIOR AND ALL THAT TOMORROW, it is late or I would now.


-Chase

[72swb_327stroker_?]

i used to do custom high end set ups for a living....
maybe i can help here
as for mids and tweets, don't buy a component set and separate them. they are designed to work together, and sound best when they are close together. also when doing kick panels, i see so many people here making them to fit the truck. they look nice, but having a speaker at your feet doesn't sound so nice. if going with kick panels, which if designed correctly, should work best.... remember to "aim" your speaker up towards your ears. BOTH SPEAKERS. to have a stereo system means that you will listen to your music in stereo. meaning 2 channels. left and right. don't skimp and put all that work into making them look nice and aim them at the floor or your seat. you can't enjoy them down there. 1. you are wasting power by having to crank it up, reducing speaker and amp life. 2. the sound is usually muffled by the time the sound waves bounce off of everything in your cab before getting to your ears. so take the time and do it right 1 time. if using components, mids and tweets should be around 40-80 rms as a pair. remember this: 10-20 rms per linear foot of distance between you and the speakers for mid to high range. there is a term, whats known in the audio world as a "sweet spot"
this is where all the magic happens! this is the area that the speakers can team together to make music happen right. when building a car or truck audio system lots of variables are involved. like sound deadening to prevent sound loss in the cab, amperage/wattage, speaker choice and placement, cubic volume of air space in vehicle.... all thing considered there are ups and downs installing in trucks. cubic volume is nice, two people can enjoy this small space and not go deaf. speaker choice and placement is hard because alot of us don't want to compromise the classic looks of our trucks in order to gain a few decibels of sound quality. amperage... what do you want, 1 sub and a pair of mids and tweets? don't buy an amp that does both. you wouldn't buy a pair of golf shoes and use them to play basketball in right? well thats why they don't make multi-use sport shoes, except cross trainers. but you can't play golf in those things! so buy an amp for each of your speakers needs. sub amp for bass, mid-high amp for mids and tweets. also a good equalizer will make a world of difference. the controls on your head unit can do only so much. also the head unit is very important. dont be fooled by a max power rating! that doesn't mean crap! a max or peak power output rating means for a very short time this is how much power this can generate. wow. rms= root mean square, but that will just confuse you if i get scientific. rms = continuous power. these are the numbers that mean anything to us. if your speakers are 4000 watts peak or max but can only handle 50 watts rms, the max or peak number does us no good. it just means thats the boiling point of a speaker, or how much power it will take to blow out. so if your speakers are 50 watts rms you would need an amp that puts out 45-55 watts rms. anything over that would just distort sound clarity and aggravate the speakers. now for the sub. in this case the sub is up to you. what type of music do you listen to and what type of bass is it? 10-12" subs are great but sound really different.10" subs are a deep low rolling bass, and a 12" sub is a harder more sharp precise bass. you decide. also ohms are a big part of buying a sub! 1 sub can handle alot of power depending on the ohm load it can handle. match the amp with the sub, this is very important!
jl audio amps are by far 1 of the best consumer amps available. they are very power friendly and rarely ever have problems. a 500.1 jl amp will be the last amp you will ever buy for bass. sub positioning is just as important! back facing subs always sounds better than downward facing subs, period. i wont go into details on that but back facing is the way to go. do you have a gas tank in the cab? this will cause a problem sound wise.
if you do just remember to use sound deadener like dynamat or B-quiet on the tank and floors.

well i know that was really long but you asked!
let me know if you need help picking anything out or setting up a full system.
eric

[BustedTruck]

A rearward facing sub would be a challange in these trucks. I would like to see that set up.

[72swb_327stroker_?]

between the seats (buckets of course) and build a custom center console to house the unit. using a 10" sub, sealed box dimensions outside= 14-1/4"x14-1/4" thats pretty small, and with the right sub will be more than enough bass for even the deafest ear! i am doing just that, i am running 500 watts rms to a 10w6v2. it is BIG BASS! no rattles and no lack of room! dont be scared be adventurous!

[bcbasketball11]

I intend on making a rearward facing sub box/center console. I will post pics of my progress when it warms up and i begin on it, lol. I have drawn plans on it though.


BTW here are a few current interior pics, sorry I didn't have time to clean it up.



The pic of the corner between my windshield and door window is where I was considering the tweeter placement.

Both doors look the same so I only put that one pic.

Thanks all, Chase

[bob1967]

I would listen to 72swb_327stroker_? , sounds like he knows his stuff. You never want your tweeter more than 8 inches from your speaker, they are made to work together. You won't be happy with it in the a-pillar. Something to think about.

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by bob1967

I would listen to 72swb_327stroker_? , sounds like he knows his stuff. You never want your tweeter more than 8 inches from your speaker, they are made to work together. You won't be happy with it in the a-pillar. Something to think about.

haha thanks much bob. I have pretty well decided on the idea of changing the 6x9's into some 6.5"s and putting the tweeters in the kickerpanel too.

[Chevyman680063]

In my '68 I had an 8" sub under the passenger side of my seat with the amp under the driver's side. The speakers were in the lower doors. Everything was Alpine except the CD player, it was Clarion. I plan on welding the holes where the speakers were in the doors back up but keeping the sub and amp under the seat. I've got to put another sub in it though cause I busted the 8", too much loud rock music, lol. Even though the sub was only an 8" you could not tell, it sounded like it was at least a 10". The whole system sounded really good, until someone hit the truck that is. I haven't decided yet where I'm gonna put the speakers when I fix it back up but I want to have them somewhat hidden.

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by Chevyman680063

In my '68 I had an 8" sub under the passenger side of my seat with the amp under the driver's side. The speakers were in the lower doors. Everything was Alpine except the CD player, it was Clarion. I plan on welding the holes where the speakers were in the doors back up but keeping the sub and amp under the seat. I've got to put another sub in it though cause I busted the 8", too much loud rock music, lol. Even though the sub was only an 8" you could not tell, it sounded like it was at least a 10". The whole system sounded really good, until someone hit the truck that is. I haven't decided yet where I'm gonna put the speakers when I fix it back up but I want to have them somewhat hidden.

for your next speakers, check out this -

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=230464

[Brad]

Originally Posted by 72swb_327stroker_?

.....what type of music do you listen to and what type of bass is it? 10-12" subs are great but sound really different.10" subs are a deep low rolling bass, and a 12" sub is a harder more sharp precise bass.

Isn't this backwards? I listen to very heavy, metal (Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Type O Negative, etc) and have found that smaller subs 8" give much more definition to the kick drum whereas the larger 12" speakers make the kick more muddy. However, having said that- all those bands have keyboard players and many times they're using church organ tones complete with very low bass notes and the 8's just rattle around when these extreme low notes are played and just can't handle them.
That's been my listening experience.

[72swb_327stroker_?]

8 inch subs are horrible low end speakers!
they are in a mid range spec class and are marketed as a sub-woofer. tsk tsk.
even a really high end 8" is still considered a midrange speaker. as for the 12" sub sounding muddy.... its all in how you have it set up. it has to be dialed in to the right frequency range so that it isn't trying to produce notes that are outside of its own frequency range capacity. read: use a crossover... not just the settings on your head unit and or the frequency pots from your amp. those barely adjust what needs to be focussed on. it also depends on the box, the speaker,the head unit, the wires, and the amp. going low buck on a sound system might get you loud music, but that doesn't always sound good. i am talking about setting up a component system that reproduces all of the frequency range in the music that you listen to. this is why i mentioned to consider the type of music you will be playing on it. rap, r&b, hip hop, drum& bass, reggae, and some blues mostly play in the lower bass frequencies and sparkle in the mid to higher frequncies. i can go on all day about that, and that is a whole different animal. but listen to a high end system, such as a henry kloss, or bang&olufsen and you will hear every frequency amplified and produced separately from each other. that is a high end system, separation and harmony of the frequencies in tone and volume.

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by Brad

Isn't this backwards? I listen to very heavy, metal (Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Type O Negative, etc) and have found that smaller subs 8" give much more definition to the kick drum whereas the larger 12" speakers make the kick more muddy. However, having said that- all those bands have keyboard players and many times they're using church organ tones complete with very low bass notes and the 8's just rattle around when these extreme low notes are played and just can't handle them.
That's been my listening experience.

I have friends with systems and i have one friend with an 84 Jimmy and has two 12"s in the back and the rock sounds pretty good, some times the hard, definate bass hits roll a little but i think that is just his rear window. Having more airspace like a jimmy, i think that the bigger subs can sound good, but i also have a friend with a 98 silverado single cab and he has one 10 behind the seat and it sounds amazing with my music (i have thrown small rock like 3 doors down in there all the way to some atreyu/bullet for my valentine/underoath) if my basic knowledge of physics and science, less airspace requires less output for equivalent sound? correct me if i'm wrong please but logistically, that seems correct to me. and a smaller sub has easier compatibility with our trucks (single cab chevys with gas tank behind seat)

[72swb_327stroker_?]

you are on the right track....
but 8" subs produce a different frequency than, say.... a 10", 12", or 15" sub
so they just cannot physically compete with a bigger sub that plays in these frequencies. like i said it is all about the set up. i have seen high dollar set ups sound like crappy swap meet sound systems with feedback and engine hum in the speakers due simply to wires, and the same due to poor frequency adjustments. so, there are lots of variables in making your system "sound right". thats why i suggested an equalizer in conjunction with a good head unit. it will help to maximize your system's abilities to reproduce the right frequencies in the specific song you are listening to on the fly.

[bob1967]

Ok so 72swb_327stroker_? does know what he is talking about. I have ran 8's, 10's and 12's, I believe 12's are a good all around sub for rock, rap whatever. If you go get swapmeet crap or wal-mart crap you get what you pay for. It all depends on what you want. You want that low deep base go 15's, all around go 12's,tight pop go 10's, but you lose your low bass. Spend the money and do it once.

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by 72swb_327stroker_?

you are on the right track....
but 8" subs produce a different frequency than, say.... a 10", 12", or 15" sub
so they just cannot physically compete with a bigger sub that plays in these frequencies. like i said it is all about the set up. i have seen high dollar set ups sound like crappy swap meet sound systems with feedback and engine hum in the speakers due simply to wires, and the same due to poor frequency adjustments. so, there are lots of variables in making your system "sound right". thats why i suggested an equalizer in conjunction with a good head unit. it will help to maximize your system's abilities to reproduce the right frequencies in the specific song you are listening to on the fly.

I understand. Thank you very much. I think i'm gonna go with the 10W3v3. . .

[joemacho]

i beg to differ on the 8"s my cousin had 3 8in subs jl audio and he had a alpine head unit with a ppi amp to it was a 500 watt he put a bass cd in it hit hard like 2 12" i looked around for the other speakers none around he showed me the box it was small with ports it realy made you lose your breath thats how hard it bumped. and the crisp sound came from polk audio 6.5 and 2" tweeters sounded great. his ride was a 95 chevy suburban.

[Chevyman680063]

I had an Alpine 8 in. sub in my '68 that was under the passenger side of the seat and it did not sound like crap. There were friends of mine who were way more into the car sound systems than me and even they thought it was a larger sub, they couldn't believe it was just an 8 in. when I told them. When I redo the truck I plan on putting a 10 in. sub in it though just to give me a little more bass.

[72 cheyenne pdx]

Just listen to 72swb_327stroker_?. He speaks the truth about 8" speakers. They are technically a mid-range speaker. I have also been in the car audio business for a long time. When I got into this business, an 8" speaker is what I was told to refer them as a mid-bass speaker.

For example: About 12years or so ago, The shop I was working at installed a system for a Portland Trailblazer (Go Blazers). He wanted something different from what everyone else had. I can't remember the name brand of these, but bought these $1500.00 "subwoofers". They were 2 6.5" in a specially designed box. He bought 2 of these things. I remember a few us laughing about these things because they had a statement on there that stated they reproduced the sounds of a 12" in a small package. Well after the installation, this Trailblazer came and picked up his car (black on black Mercedes). He got in and and wanted to hear his new system. After about 1 minute or so being in his car, he got out and said "I paid $3000.00 for these Subs?" Us installers could not hold it in much longer and laughed. He was cool and started laughing as well. He was back in 3 weeks later and we did him up right. He rolled out of there with 4 12's and smile on his face. We did 3 more of his cars and a few other Trailblazer's cars as well.

[bcbasketball11]

Originally Posted by 72 cheyenne pdx

Just listen to 72swb_327stroker_?. He speaks the truth about 8" speakers. They are technically a mid-range speaker. I have also been in the car audio business for a long time. When I got into this business, an 8" speaker is what I was told to refer them as a mid-bass speaker.

For example: About 12years or so ago, The shop I was working at installed a system for a Portland Trailblazer (Go Blazers). He wanted something different from what everyone else had. I can't remember the name brand of these, but bought these $1500.00 "subwoofers". They were 2 6.5" in a specially designed box. He bought 2 of these things. I remember a few us laughing about these things because they had a statement on there that stated they reproduced the sounds of a 12" in a small package. Well after the installation, this Trailblazer came and picked up his car (black on black Mercedes). He got in and and wanted to hear his new system. After about 1 minute or so being in his car, he got out and said "I paid $3000.00 for these Subs?" Us installers could not hold it in much longer and laughed. He was cool and started laughing as well. He was back in 3 weeks later and we did him up right. He rolled out of there with 4 12's and smile on his face. We did 3 more of his cars and a few other Trailblazer's cars as well.

haha funny. . .and yes, i have further talked to him and have learned much already. . .it will be a while but i will definately be posting pics when i finsh

thanks!
-chase

[Brad]

Originally Posted by joemacho

i beg to differ on the 8"s my cousin had 3 8in subs jl audio and he had a alpine head unit with a ppi amp to it was a 500 watt he put a bass cd in it hit hard like 2 12" i looked around for the other speakers none around he showed me the box it was small with ports it realy made you lose your breath thats how hard it bumped. and the crisp sound came from polk audio 6.5 and 2" tweeters sounded great. his ride was a 95 chevy suburban.

I don't have time to respond to all the other posts, but that is exactly what I'm talking about. I know what a good sound system is and know what I've done with 8's in my truck. It sounded waaaaaay better than the 12's I tried. Generally speaking, 12's are fine for boomy bass and high volume, but as a certified audiologist, I'd rather keep my hearing for the rest of my life and hear definition in my music. As a musician, I'm a critical listener to the music I listen to and it's not just for getting from point A to point B....

Oh, I should also add to the fact that I'm not willing to put $3,000 into a system with 12's that sounds better than my $400 system with 8's. Know what I mean?

One last thing. The bass note at around 30hz is about 33 feet long. Yes, you read correctly. 33 feet- and I don't have that much room in my truck. So, that's why you hear low frequencies from much farther away than high frequencies. So while you think you're hearing that loud bass note with 12's, you're really only hearing the harmonics and not the entire frequency anyway. That's why 8's tend to give better definition.

[72swb_327stroker_?]

it sounds like alot of you are very well informed. thats wonderful! i really do appreciate everybody's kind statements, but i did not intend for this to be a debate over speaker size vs sound quality. i simply meant to explain what the true nature of an 8" speaker is. if any of us has had great results with a certain sized speaker/box/amp configuration.... great! do share! but 3- 8" speakers or 2 or even 1 for that matter will be over worked as well as the amp while trying to produce a low frequency that it physically can not.compared to a bigger single speaker with the right box. tuned right, you can virtually save alot of room in your cab and have amazing results within a small package. i was in this business to install high end stereo systems that sound amazing. clarity and definition of frequencies were my ultimate goal. not creating a decibel contest-winning speaker box of a vehicle. i am also in the music industry and play lots of instruments, so i am very familiar with sound waves and how they travel. this has only helped me in my business. to simplify this, i admire all of you on this forum... and highly appreciate all input and advice on any subject! i am humbled by the shear depth of knowledge that each of you have to share with us. honestly! so back to the subject at hand.... you can shape any speaker, mids and lows both... to sound or create the frequencies that sound best to you. as you already know Brad, quality stereo monitors don't need a huge speaker to produce clean bass, but with the addition of a sub, big or little.. you can tune into those frequencies with ease. yes, an 8" "sub" can sound amazing if designed right and in the correct box for its application. alot of you may already know that to gain a bigger sound from a smaller box/speaker the box is filled with damping material such as polyfill. it not only helps to absorb standing waves, but also helps to create the illusion of amplifying lower frequencies. i am not at all suggesting that we all run out and install 12" subs in our trucks. to the contrary, our truck's air space is far too limited to utilize all that a monstrous speaker such as a 12" sub can put out. i am an advocate for clear, clean, well rounded and balanced music.all in all, use whatever speaker, components, wires you like. try to maximize your system by fine tuning your frequency ranges in each speaker's capacity, and enjoy!
good luck!
if any of you would like help or have ?'s pm me.

[streetstar]

Funny -- nobody here has mentioned anything close to my setup
(Alpine head unit and "540 peak rMs" amp connected to 2 6x9's in Pep Boys speaker boxes placed loosely behind the seat)

I'm laughing on the inside

[mine4now]

Thank you for all of the advise 72swb 327stroker ?. Many years ago my friend and I built system in his carport for show cars and several systems that competed in ISCA events including a couple SPL contest winners. With my 68 C10 I am looking to go with a very clean sound. What do you think of Memphic Audio, I ask because I had used a Memphis digital mono-block 500 watt amp to push 2 10" Polk DB series subs in a 99 Dodge Ram and the setup sounded great. Also am I going to have to have some kick panels custom made to get the staging right?

[72swb_327stroker_?]

if it is a real memphis audio amp, use it!! but unfortunately there are more knock-off memphis audio amps out there than real ones. you probably have a real one so i say go for it. 2 10" subs might pose a problem space-wise in these trucks unless you are going full custom and bucket seats. as for kick panels, yes you will have to have them custom made in order to get the correct speaker angle. you can also have some custom door panels made to house the components, but remember to use baffles either way. baffles are rubber-type cups that the back of your speakers sit into, they not only help to protect from the elements but also help to increase bass response in your speakers.
hope this helps!