HHO Gas - Brown Gas

[ChevLoRay]

[QUOTE=Indyuke;2799582]I've heard lye is a better electrolyte, but I didn't know it kept the temps down. I'll have to try it.QUOTE]

You'll have to excuse me, but doesn't mixing lye with water generate HEAT? When I worked for a photofinishing company, we'd clean the tanks every week with lye and water, to kill any algae that may have started growing in the chemicals. I may be wrong, but lye has been used to help unclog drains, and I remember them getting warm. It may have been just the reaction of the lye/water with whatever was clogging the drain that generated heat. So, please correct me if I am wrong.

[rlb67]

I heard about HHO about a week ago and started investigating on the internet. What I've read states that the conversion from water to gas is about 80% efficient, which means that if you put in 10 hp you will get 8 hp in return. I don't understand how a vehicle could get better fuel mileage if this is the case. The only thing I can make sense is that it actually increases the efficiency of the engine, which means that the combustion temperatures are elevated. I would like to know what long term affects are if this is the case. I would be willing to try it though.

[68 short step]

Originally Posted by rlb67

. What I've read states that the conversion from water to gas is about 80% efficient, .

im not sure how much sence this makes.....are you talking about the actual burning of the gas (HHO) is 80% efficient??? you can never 'lose' energy, its just changes forms.......so changeing from water to hydrogen you dont lose any energy....now burning hydrogen, is more then 3X more effecient then gas... gas is only used about 20% to power our vehicles, the remainder 80% is lost to heat (exhaust)......now on the other hand burning HHO is about 80% effecient, cause after burnt and exspelled through the exhaust it returns back to water, and only 20% is wasted due to heat......

[Hart_Rod]

Call me crazy, but if it's this simple, why isn't everyone doing this...........???????????

[rlb67]

Originally Posted by 68 short step

im not sure how much sence this makes.....are you talking about the actual burning of the gas (HHO) is 80% efficient??? you can never 'lose' energy, its just changes forms.......so changeing from water to hydrogen you dont lose any energy....now burning hydrogen, is more then 3X more effecient then gas... gas is only used about 20% to power our vehicles, the remainder 80% is lost to heat (exhaust)......now on the other hand burning HHO is about 80% effecient, cause after burnt and exspelled through the exhaust it returns back to water, and only 20% is wasted due to heat......

What I mean is that you will only get 80% of engery you put in, the rest is lost through heat energy (current flow). E(in) = E(out) + E(loss) 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

[odog]

Originally Posted by 68 short step

im not sure how much sence this makes.....are you talking about the actual burning of the gas (HHO) is 80% efficient??? you can never 'lose' energy, its just changes forms.......so changeing from water to hydrogen you dont lose any energy....now burning hydrogen, is more then 3X more effecient then gas... gas is only used about 20% to power our vehicles, the remainder 80% is lost to heat (exhaust)......now on the other hand burning HHO is about 80% effecient, cause after burnt and exspelled through the exhaust it returns back to water, and only 20% is wasted due to heat......

Not to nit pick, but I believe you can lose energy when it changes form, mass is what you can never lose, doesn't matter what form it is in, one lb of ice will be one lb of water when melted, same as when chaged to gas. I think its called the law of conservation of mass. Energy is a whole different thing. Energy has to be converted to work to be usefull. When converted to work some energy loss is inevitable, due in large part to friction and other factors. This is where efficiency plays a role. It also gets boring and complicated from here and I am already giving myself a headache trying to remember my chemistry and physics classes.

I don't know that better fuel economy is the overall goal here, if I had an engine that got 10 miles to the gallon on $4.15 a gallon gas versus an engine that got 1 mile to the gallon on water I can get out of the roadside ditch, I would take the engine that ran on water.

I would like to see the long term effects on an engine. This is pretty
interesting stuff.

Sorry for the boredom.

[68 short step]

HHO=80%
gas=20%

hart rod, good question......i dunno why.....
same with solar power, why isnt anyone useing it?? altho i do have a solar pwr hot water system i think with stupid high gas prices and a failing economy you'll be seeing alot of alternative fuel solutions being employed......and i hope the oil big wigs go belly up

[killer71]

Originally Posted by Hart_Rod

Call me crazy, but if it's this simple, why isn't everyone doing this...........???????????

you reckon it's got anything to do with puttin $$$ in the big oil mans/govt's pocket...they wouldn't be makin much $$$ if we filled up at the water faucet in the drive way...

[Hart_Rod]

Originally Posted by 68 short step

HHO=80%
gas=20%

hart rod, good question......i dunno why.....
same with solar power, why isnt anyone useing it?? altho i do have a solar pwr hot water system i think with stupid high gas prices and a failing economy you'll be seeing alot of alternative fuel solutions being employed......and i hope the oil big wigs go belly up

Are you telling me I better sell my oil stock......................

[68 short step]

no, lets just cut the middle man out, ill just mail you 75% of my paycheck every week


and no energy cant be 'lost' it just changes states....i think thats the first law of thermodynamics

[68 short step]

found it
The first law of thermodynamics, also called conservation of energy, states that the total amount of energy in the universe is constant. This means that all of the energy has to end up somewhere, either in the original form or in a different from

[IvelDesigns]

i'm all for running my house, vehicles and everything else on tap water.

However, OPEC and all of the nuke wanting countries in the middle east probably don't feel the same. Look what the price of oil is doing to the world economy. if you were to instantly remove the need for oil, we'd all have front row seats to WW III. Not just from the middle east issues, but just due to the complete shake up of the worlds power balance (or imbalance if you look at it that way).

Today's world is no different than worlds of centuries past. A new technology comes along, and all hell breaks loose due to the struggle for power.

Every story i've heard about someone creating a way to run a vehicle off water ends up with the guy coming up missing or dead.

1+1=2 ?

[andrewt2]

Originally Posted by IvelDesigns

i'm all for running my house, vehicles and everything else on tap water.

However, OPEC and all of the nuke wanting countries in the middle east probably don't feel the same. Look what the price of oil is doing to the world economy. if you were to instantly remove the need for oil, we'd all have front row seats to WW III. Not just from the middle east issues, but just due to the complete shake up of the worlds power balance (or imbalance if you look at it that way).

Today's world is no different than worlds of centuries past. A new technology comes along, and all hell breaks loose due to the struggle for power.

Every story i've heard about someone creating a way to run a vehicle off water ends up with the guy coming up missing or dead.

1+1=2 ?

Kudos to that levi! im not gonna be the next one to design the next new thing to take away from the big mans pocket book... besides i dont even really pay attention to the rising fuel cost... its something you have to have to get around i just feel up and deal with it.... just means one less dinner out, or one less truck part bought that month.

[LockDoc]

-
I'm going to throw my 2¢ worth in as I see it. First off I have to say that I am not a scholar, in fact I was lucky to make it through high school. I don't know jack about Thermodynamics or the laws of anything. All I have to rely on is my common sense and it says that this should work….

I have been doing some reading on this subject and quite a few of the naysayers seem to assume that the engine is running on water or the HH0 (Oxyhydrogen). Because of that they say it can't be done, because you would use too much energy to produce enough HH0 to run the vehicle. From what I read the engine is still powered by the gasoline and the only thing the HH0 does is to make the combustion process more efficient. If this is correct very little HH0 has to be produced to accomplish this task. It seems to me that if the combustion process is more efficient you will get more power and mileage from a measured amount of fuel. Isn't that what fuel injection is all about? It atomizes the fuel and sprays it into each cylinder which makes the combustion process more efficient and ultimately increases power and fuel economy? I'm not saying they work the same all I'm saying is that with the increased combustion efficiency the end result is the same.

I don't see this as the vehicle running on water or HHO. I see this as the water producing a small amount of HHO, which increases the efficiency of the combustion process, which in turn increases fuel economy and power. Does it increase heat production in the engine? I don't know but I think that would be easy enough to check. I think Ethanol based fuels do, so a person might not want to use it with Ethanol based fuels. The extra heat produced by combining the two might be enough to be detrimental.

I may be way off base on this but this is what my mind is telling me…. We shall see.

LockDoc

[tkmad]

I hate to rain on your fantasies, but it won't work. You can't go from a lower state of energy, water, to a higher state, gas, without adding energy. That is done by the current. That conversion is NEVER 100% efficient, meaning you have already lost energy. Then you burn the gas and convert it back to water and get most of the energy, but not all again. Unless you can change the laws of physics it will always be that way. One looney self proclaimed inventor does not make it true.

[Indyuke]

ChevLoRay, I'm curious to the effect lye has on heat as well. This is the first I've heard that... could be worth a try.

The energy lost in this conversion would be the alternator's load. It can take as much as 30amps to generate enough HHO to make it worth it. Of course the cell design, type of electrolyte, etc. makes a large difference, but you still need to generate the energy to produce the gas that increases your combustion efficiency.

That's why people say it's not worth it... you only get 60 to 80 percent out of what you put in. Doesn't make sense to go through all that work just to throw away energy, right?

However, why do people still keep putting 90amp alternators and water cells into their trucks and watching their fuel economy go from 14mpg to 17mpg despite the increased engine load.

[sixty8c10]

good info...subscribing

[JMurray]

My biggest concern would be, if there was a way to effectively convert all current energy sources to hydrogen would the govt. start charging or taxing us for water usage? You might think that is absurd but any fuel source whether it be LPG, bio-diesel, Vegetable oil, Hydrogen, legally has to pay a fuel tax for road use. If this process did come to light I think there would be meters on every house (other than the ones the city utilities use) to regulate water consumption. Then you have the environmental nuts who would say we are going to kill some minute microscopic organism that lives somewhere in the water and there is going to be protest and taxes to protect that thing. In the long run it will be the same story as oil who has control and who makes the money in the long run. Myself I would prefer bio-diesel for everything and make it out of waste products like tree limbs, sawdust, law clippings like Iceland has done for several decades, but that is just my 2 cents.

[thirdstreettito]

Heres the good stuff.
http://www.waterforfuel.com/
My uncle uses em on all his vehicles.

[henry3rd]

Maybe a stupid question,
On the video of the truck using 8 onces of gas in 1:48
Then 4 min on hho gasoline combo. The motor is idling at
a constant rpm in both tests. The fuel pump is mechanical.
The pump rate would be the same in both tests if the rpm
remained a constant. So why wouldn't it pump the same amount
of gas in the same amount of time? At idle the fuel flow through the
carb would be a constant. I just dont understand how it would be different.

[Bob D]

Originally Posted by henry3rd

Maybe a stupid question,
On the video of the truck using 8 onces of gas in 1:48
Then 4 min on hho gasoline combo. The motor is idling at
a constant rpm in both tests. The fuel pump is mechanical.
The pump rate would be the same in both tests if the rpm
remained a constant. So why wouldn't it pump the same amount
of gas in the same amount of time? At idle the fuel flow through the
carb would be a constant. I just dont understand how it would be different.

Good question. Maybe the HHO burning changes manifold vacuum and it draws less fuel thru the idle circuit of the carb. I would like to see that test done with a vac gage and tach displayed for reference.

Bob

[BBGMC]

Does anyone know who made that video with our style trucks? I would really like to convert my 1968 396 GMC into a HHO burner but need was wondering what steps were taken to make it also I want my truck to run completely off of HHO or at least close to it

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by henry3rd

Maybe a stupid question,
On the video of the truck using 8 onces of gas in 1:48
Then 4 min on hho gasoline combo. The motor is idling at
a constant rpm in both tests. The fuel pump is mechanical.
The pump rate would be the same in both tests if the rpm
remained a constant. So why wouldn't it pump the same amount
of gas in the same amount of time? At idle the fuel flow through the
carb would be a constant. I just dont understand how it would be different.

Mechanical fuel pumps are not a positive displacement pump, it is a diaphram style. What that means is that it pumps a certain volume at a certain pressure based on the demand. For instance, the same pump used on engines that use different amounts of fuel at the same rpm. Kind of like a centrifugal pump for water.

A positive displacement pump is like a piston style pump that will move a volume of fluid regardless of pressure.

[68GMC454]

oh god my head hurts.. im just a little ol hillbilly...to much thinking on this... but im all ears...hmmmm i may have some researching to do now...and if i could figure out somethign like this, i dont htink id sell the info, i post it all across the www for free, screw the big oil companies and opec...post how many billions in profit your making and im goign hungry just to have gas money....

[jdfrmnt]

just 1 ? propane works for diesel souldnt it work for a gas motor just a? from a idiot