Emissions fail - any advice

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by vegaschevy

There are huge fines here and you can still find $100 smog checks EVERYWHERE!!!! 100 bucks is a TOIN of money to someone making 7 bucks an hour.

I have been going to the same place and many people for years!

You are not in California. 100 bucks is nothing when you can lose your business. I don't know of ANYONE willing to risk a $50,000 fine for $100

[jlolson]

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

NO OCTANE boost or high octane gas.....that screwed ya right there.... OCTANE SLOWS THE BURN !!!... anyways get a can of acetone, dump in gas tank, set mixture screws correctly (turn in till stumbles/idles rough then turn out 1/2-1 turn) set idle at 1000-1500rpm.... make sure its at operating temp when ya get there and dont idle in line.... (ex phoenix resident just went thru getting my 91 to pass)

Can someone confirm this? Low octane gas w/no octane booster for best results? This is contrary to what a mechanic told me.

I don't know about the acetone but I've heard about the denatured alcohol trick and was considering doing that (add 2L of denatured alcohold to about 4 gallons of gas, test immediately, then top off with good gas). Any opinions?

[jlolson]

Originally Posted by vectorit

I just read one of your other posts, and in it you say you are running headers?

If this is true, here in CA they would fail you on just the visual.

If your state allows this, then you need to take into account for those headers while figuring out your A/F settings.

In that other post, you also mentioned you are using an HEI with 7mm plug wires that are melting on the headers. Bad ignition will affect your smog test also, since you are probably arching on the header pipes from the melted wires.

I'm no expert at emmsions testing, but these I think would be pretty important issues to address.

I've updated that post. I'm not running headers, they are stock ram-horn exhaust manifolds. Just FYI - they don't open the hood, they only check at the tailpipe. The plug wires I was running didn't melt, the previous set did. I think it was just crap plug wires.

Thanks,

[truckster]

Alcohol oxygenates the fuel. That's why some areas are required to add ethanol to gasoline by the EPA to reduce smog. They used to use MBTE, but it leaks into groundwater and is a hazardous chemical, so it's no longer allowed.

Denatured alcohol is ethanol that's had a little bit of methanol added to it to make it poisonous, so that it doesn't have to carry an alcoholic beverage tax.

Alcohol has less energy per gallon than gasoline, which is why you may have to bump your idle up a little bit to get it to idle smoothly.

[69GMCLonghorn]

Originally Posted by jlolson

Can someone confirm this? Low octane gas w/no octane booster for best results? This is contrary to what a mechanic told me.

I don't know about the acetone but I've heard about the denatured alcohol trick and was considering doing that (add 2L of denatured alcohold to about 4 gallons of gas, test immediately, then top off with good gas). Any opinions?

This is not correct. What IS correct is that lower octane burns quicker than high octane. So the higher the octane, the hotter the spark and the more compression is needed to burn it. But when it DOES burn, it is much cleaner and more efficient than lower octane. When you run low octane and it "pings", it is because it is burning too soon, or "pre-detonating". So you back the timing off, etc to compensate. If you run high octane and advance the timing to an appropriate setting, the engine will run better. The newer the car, the more the computer will compensate for this...

[jlolson]

Originally Posted by 69GMCLonghorn

This is not correct. What IS correct is that lower octane burns quicker than high octane. So the higher the octane, the hotter the spark and the more compression is needed to burn it. But when it DOES burn, it is much cleaner and more efficient than lower octane. When you run low octane and it "pings", it is because it is burning too soon, or "pre-detonating". So you back the timing off, etc to compensate. If you run high octane and advance the timing to an appropriate setting, the engine will run better. The newer the car, the more the computer will compensate for this...

So I had a full tank of 91 octane pluse about 24OZ of 108 Octane booster and I failed for CO which is unspent fuel. Think I'd be better off next time with 87 octane like the original poster stated?

[vegaschevy]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

You are not in California. 100 bucks is nothing when you can lose your business. I don't know of ANYONE willing to risk a $50,000 fine for $100

They have those same fines around here too. Trust me you can always find people to do emissions on vehicles that wont pass.

I have quite a few buddies in Canyon country, the valley, and SD that all have cars that need $100 emissions.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by vegaschevy

They have those same fines around here too. Trust me you can always find people to do emissions on vehicles that wont pass.

I have quite a few buddies in Canyon country, the valley, and SD that all have cars that need $100 emissions.

Key word is "buddies". I have a friend that will do it for me too, if necessary. The avg. person does not. Trust me, you won't find anyone in California that will do it.

[69GMCLonghorn]

Originally Posted by jlolson

So I had a full tank of 91 octane pluse about 24OZ of 108 Octane booster and I failed for CO which is unspent fuel. Think I'd be better off next time with 87 octane like the original poster stated?

No, it's a matter of making sure the carb and timing are dialed in for all aspects of what's going on with the engine. If it's not passing, it may be a lot of trial and error. As much as I DESPISE smog checks, the truck should be running its best if/when you get it to pass. Remember some quick rules:

Too much HC = too rich
Too much CO = too lean
Too much NOx = high compression

[Rack Man]

Why not just get classic car insurance (which is also cheaper) and then as long as you own another vehicle there is no emissions test required in AZ....it falls under the classic car exemption law that was passed a couple years ago....

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/motor.html

[69GMCLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Rack Man

Why not just get classic car insurance (which is also cheaper) and then as long as you own another vehicle there is no emissions test required in AZ....it falls under the classic car exemption law that was passed a couple years ago....

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/motor.html

Believe it or not, California is even easier than that! As long as it's older than 1974, NO SMOG CHECK! It doesn't matter whether it's your only vehicle or not. It was supposed to change to a rolling 20 or 25 year rule: If it's older than that, it's exempt. But they realized how much of their precious revenue would be lost, so they dropped it.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by 69GMCLonghorn

Believe it or not, California is even easier than that! As long as it's older than 1974, NO SMOG CHECK! It doesn't matter whether it's your only vehicle or not. It was supposed to change to a rolling 20 or 25 year rule: If it's older than that, it's exempt. But they realized how much of their precious revenue would be lost, so they dropped it.

Actually, it's pre-76 vehicles that are exempt. It used to be a rolling 30 yr rule, but the gubernator changed that.

[texanidiot25]

Originally Posted by Rack Man

Why not just get classic car insurance (which is also cheaper) and then as long as you own another vehicle there is no emissions test required in AZ....it falls under the classic car exemption law that was passed a couple years ago....

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/motor.html

Classic car insuarance is a total waste when you can't drive the vehicle to any normal standards and hope to get covered when you need them.

[Chada]

We dont have emissions in most of Virginia, just the counties around Washington, DC and even there any vehicle over 25 years old is exempt. Also anybody who registers with antique plates is exempt from safety inspections as well. With antique plates you can only drive your car certain times though but the big exemption is "occasional pleasure driving". I do a lot of that now.

[coloradosean2009]

Lets focus people! The issue here is not the laws of his state or complaining about the state where you live. The issue is why does he have a high CO under load.

There has been some incorrect information posted here. Let me fix that:

1. High CO is a sign that you are running RICH.
2. High Hydrocarbon count is caused by unspent fuel in the exhaust. (this can be caused by a rich mixture, or missing ignition).
3. You should run the same gas that you normally run. If the truck can't pass the very liberal requirements you have, then it is not running properly (read: expensive waste of gas!).

Based upon the results of your last test, I think that you are close to passing. Just bring the idle mixture up a little(richer) and run some regular gas. I will eat my shoe if you don't pass.

[Rack Man]

Originally Posted by texanidiot25

Classic car insuarance is a total waste when you can't drive the vehicle to any normal standards and hope to get covered when you need them.

WHAT???....I have had classic car insurance on numerous vehicles....Its the only way to go!

Normally quite a bit cheaper than conventional insurance & with the right company there are no mileage restrictions and are "Agreed Value"........don't see the downfall....I've used Grundy for years....They rock and I have heard their claim service is top notch!....$400 a year for $45K agreed value and NO mileage restrictions ....oh yea, an no smog checks

[jlolson]

Originally Posted by coloradosean2009

Lets focus people! The issue here is not the laws of his state or complaining about the state where you live. The issue is why does he have a high CO under load.

Thanks Sean, appreciate the advice! I'll run 87 octane next test and see how it goes.

And for the classic car insurance stuff... not really interested. From what I've read my mileage will be limited and I don't want to play any games. The emissions is a pain in the ass but if I'm running rich I'm wasting gas so I want to fix it.

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by crm318

Yeah, in Texas, it 14.00 dollars (blinkers, horn, tail lights, and wipers all work) and youre on your way. Its a restorers dream.

Not only that... but everything over 25 years old is emmisions exempt. So... 2009-25=1984. 1984 and older is emmisions exempt.

[Rack Man]

One thing to keep in mind is that these old vehicles were never designed to meet today's emission standards and just because you "Pass" does not mean that your vehicle will be running at its best....

I remember every time I brought my old 69 - 396 Camaro in for testing I would need to mess with the carb & timing so bad on it in order to pass that it ran like complete crap!....So one block down the road all the settings went right back to where they were...and I was good to go

[68lwb292]

No emissions in Florida, and in my county all the cops have old mud trucks and race cars. The Sheriffs office sponsors a drag car 90s camaro with race chassis, slicks, full race motor with nitrous, and a sheriff's car paint job and working lightbar on the roof. I drove a truck for years that looked like the skeeter truck. People who followed me would run their washers the whole time, and you could follow me home because it left a trail of smoke everywhere I went and I never got in any trouble.

[QKENUF4U]

even my bb 71 402 went thru but again i leaned it out a bit and turned up the idle... as for SEANs reply.. hes right but hes missing one important aspect... you ran a tank of high octane (over done with octane booster) that your motor CAN NOT completely burn in stock form, so in turn there goes your CO (unburned fuel) RIGHT UP TO THE SKY....
and in AZ. the cut off point for emissions is 66 so our trucks fall right at the first year of this crap....and i dont think it matters if you have antique plates or not if your newer than 66 ...(not 100% sure bout that)
when i took my 91 thru on my first try i was at 22%+ CO...... put the bottle of acetone in and dropped to less than 7%.... so it def. works..

[Rack Man]

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

and in AZ. the cut off point for emissions is 66 so our trucks fall right at the first year of this crap....and i dont think it matters if you have antique plates or not if your newer than 66 ...(not 100% sure bout that)..

"Historic Plates" doesn't matter...but....Effective April 30 2007, House bill: HB2357 became in effect.....vehicles that are 15 years and older which are deemed collectable, have the proper collector car insurance and is not your daily driver are eligible for emissions exemption....This was a huge deal in the collector car world and made a lot of people very happy...Including me!.....

My first car that qualified was a nice little 67 driver quality camaro worth about $9k at the time....total full coverage insurance premium for one year was a whopping $212.00.....and no emissions....Loved it and still love it!

[jlolson]

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

you ran a tank of high octane (over done with octane booster) that your motor CAN NOT completely burn in stock form, so in turn there goes your CO (unburned fuel) RIGHT UP TO THE SKY......

Yup, this was a mistake on my part. I think if I do nothing else it will pass on regular gas (I hope). It did on the first test so I have no reason to believe it won't on the 3rd.

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

and i dont think it matters if you have antique plates or not if your newer than 66 ...(not 100% sure bout that)

In AZ antique plates can be issued to any vehicle 25 years old or older (you just have to pay $25 for the plate). It has nothing to do with emissions requirements. I always found it amuzing to see "historic vehicle" plates on something that was a total POS.

[red71cheyenne]

Step 1. Join the military.

Step 2. Have your Mom go to the DMV for you in your home state since you live in another one or another country.

Step 3. Can't inspect since its either in that other state or country.

Step 4. Have Mom pay for license plates with your money and mail them to you.

Step 5. Don't worry about it anymore.

Sorry, just had to be a smart a$$ since none of mine have been inspected in the last 23+ years even tho its required in MO. But like I said, if its not there, they can't inspect it and don't charge you for it.

[67ss&99ss]

Man thats dumb having emissions on something that old. There are no emissions in my area thankfully.