Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch?

[8mpg]

Originally Posted by CPPJEFF

Ok so here is the skinny, YOU CANNOT WELD THE INSIDE OF THE NOTCH. My Engineer said that some vendors make them in 3/16" plate and he has seen an issue with those breaking but we make our kits in 1/4" plate and WE HAVE NEVER had an issue with our kits in 15 years, if there was a reason to weld the inside we would most certainly do that.

Im not an engineer or professional welder...but they are just WRONG. Here is the proof. I did it and it still fits with TONS of room. What other vendors do has no bearing on a lack of quality on your product. This is simply bad welding job no matter how you look at it. Dont get me wrong, it fits great, good design, I like the product but the welding is something so simple and your engineers/sales dont care. You just say "it might look crappy...but just trust me, it works great" Why do new trucks have fully boxed frames that are hydroformed? Because frame strength is essential. Lots of engineering has come along since the 60's. For your "engineers" to say its not possible or you cannot weld the inside seem, is just laughable. No offense against you or the company. Im just another hobbyist that does think that proper welding and strength are important when Im gonna put my life in the hands of your work.

Moving on...

I welded the inside seams. Im not a professional welder and my welds are not as pretty. Simply MIG welded inside seams with teh welder set for 3/16 steel (so I dont melt through and mess up the pretty welds)




Good penetration:


Thickness of the weld bead that you guys say will interfere with the frame rail:


The impossible:


Still fits...both sides with plenty of room for a fatter weld.

[Shane]

let's review: you're bolting a 1/4" thick part with no less than 8 grade 8 fasterners to a cold-formed c-frame section that is approx. half as thick and your more concerned about the 1/4" part being weak? um-kay.

[8mpg]

Originally Posted by Shane

let's review: you're bolting a 1/4" thick part with no less than 8 grade 8 fasterners to a cold-formed c-frame section that is approx. half as thick and your more concerned about the 1/4" part being weak? um-kay.

Yeah.. I am. I guess you dont see the point. C-channel gets its strength from both the upper and lower horizontal sections of the frame. When you cut that out, you reduce it severely. A pipe notch with no backing plate gives the frame a whopping 25% of original frame strength. So you are bolting on a 1/4" angled plate that is not welded properly. Most of the load will be on the vertical portion of the frame. Maybe you havent seen these notches up close. Its very poor welding and weld penetration. The fit was not correct when it was weleded leaving 1/8" gaps between the two pieces of steel. The penetration was not even 1/2 way through on parts of it. Why dont you buy one, rip off the bottom half and bolt it onto your frame. Just run the vertical portion.

My truck isnt a race truck by its going to have a solid 400-450hp and damn near 1000tq. So yeah...I might worry a bit about the strength of the piece. Im not running a 350 with 300hp and 280tq.

Please read this thread:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...engineer+notch

Lots of different notch calculations based on materials and its strength compared to stock frame strength.

[killer71]

I'm with you 8mg, right or wrong the notch you bought is no way goin on one of my build ups as it arrived from the company. It's your truck and if you think it needs better welds i say get to it.

[Shane]

1.) Actually, the c channel gets its strength from the single vertical section, not the two parallel sections. Grab a 2" x 4" and give it a flex. Note the direction of flex in relation to the sides.
2.) I've seen these notches very very closely.
3.) I have bought & installed more than 1 set of these notches.
4.) Even with the "bottom half ripped off" the 1/4" thickness is still stronger material than the underlying 1/8" thick cold formed c frame. Basic physics, my man.
5.) The fact remains that there has never been a reported failure due to a bad weld. But of course with 1,000 ft. lbs of torque out of 400-450 h.p your's could possible be the first.

[8mpg]

Originally Posted by killer71

I'm with you 8mg, right or wrong the notch you bought is no way goin on one of my build ups as it arrived from the company. It's your truck and if you think it needs better welds i say get to it.

Though its not a direct comparison, the thread I linked above shows a 4" pipe notch, 1/4" wall tubing with a 1/4" backing plate to BOX the frame, not support still reduces the frame to 75% of its strength. I wonder how fast that goes down with a product that is 1/2 welded.

Originally Posted by Shane

1.) Actually, the c channel gets its strength from the single vertical section, not the two parallel sections. Grab a 2" x 4" and give it a flex. Note the direction of flex in relation to the sides.
2.) I've seen these notches very very closely.
3.) I have bought & installed more than 1 set of these notches.
4.) Even with the "bottom half ripped off" the 1/4" thickness is still stronger material than the underlying 1/8" thick cold formed c frame. Basic physics, my man.
5.) The fact remains that there has never been a reported failure due to a bad weld. But of course with 1,000 ft. lbs of torque out of 400-450 h.p your's could possible be the first.

Since you are the sole authority on these trucks and notch God, please do the mechanical engineering and put out a model. Id like to see your "basic physics". I forgot, only you can possibly know if there was ever a failure with a CPP notch. Just another thought...the fasteners just hold the darn thing on the truck...it doesnt give the strength to the notch.

[Shane]

You're the one telling the manufacturer how to make their parts but somehow I'm the expert? LOL! Good one.

Would like the model it in SolidEdge or ProE?

Get back to me, k?

[8mpg]

Originally Posted by Shane

You're the one telling the manufacturer how to make their parts but somehow I'm the expert? LOL! Good one.

Would like the model it in SolidEdge or ProE?

Get back to me, k?

I will take either model. Show some load testing and lets see how strong it truly is. Now honestly, I have no idea who their engineers are. Are they doing computer models with load testing or is the engineer simply the guy that built the first prototype on the truck? Are these people with a degree or just a fabricator?

I dont know why you are acting like someone pissed in your cheerios. This was a simple concern that I voiced and here you come nut swinging in to make me look like a fool. Like many people in the thread I pointed out I was suprised to see a 1/4" thick 4" pipe notch would reduce the frames integrity to 25% of the original strength. Also amazed by adding a 1/4" boxing plate shown in the thread with a 1/4" thick pipe notch still only leaves 75" of the strength. So by comparison (I know it is not a direct comparison) you would think that the CPP notch would fit close to this category. 1/4" thick notch and 1/4" steel backing plate. The difference is the lower parts that bolt to the spring plate and the frame behind the notch. With it being 1/2 way welded on, there is no way it adds the remaining 25% of the strength.

So I welcome you to post a model with load testing and compute the numbers to show the strength compared to a stock frame. Its its 90% or more of the strength of the original frame, great. I highly doubt it will. Then substitute some poor welding in the notch and show those numbers.

Until you have some fact, please just shut the hell up. You remind me of Obama... "uhh...uhhhhhhh... my fellow people...you will just have to trust me... install it on your truck and you will see what happens. Im not exactly sure what that is...but... we will see. My opinion is uhhh... based on nothing more than my opinion. Please dont look into the facts and educate yourself...just believe me"

[Shane]

LOL ... kids.

[8mpg]

Originally Posted by Shane

LOL ... kids.

Irony

I take it that you will not be doing the model to prove your point? Im working on getting a couple people to do models to show the results. Whether or not Im right or wrong.

[Liz]

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Agree to disagree, discuss and move on. The taking it to pissing match level only results in more work for us and less fun for you.