Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

8mpg · 05-12-2010, 06:58 PM

Just got the notch in today and while it looks like great penetration and teh outside welds look great, Im less than impressed. Im going to have to go back and weld the inside seams. There was a lack of penetration though the heat rings make it look like it was a good weld. Here are some pics:

Looks good from far:

Closer up, all you see is a gap between the pieces of steel:

Closer:

Here is the typical penetration for the whole thing...1/8" or so. The thing in my mind is about 1/2 welded and 1/2 as strong as it could be.

Anyone else have a problem with theirs? I sure wouldnt feel safe just bolting it on out of the box. To give them some credit...I just looked over it some more and some of the welds are nice and penetrate better than others, but definitely not 100% on the 1/4" steel. Im gonna say at most its 75% penetration on 30-40% of the welds.

CARR33 · 05-12-2010, 08:23 PM

Mine are identical. I didn't inspect them that close when i got them. The welds all look good on the outside, but turn them over and its a different story. I'm surely not going to send them back, i sent back an item that was the wrong part -their fault- and it took over three weeks to get the right part. I'll just pay to get them welded properly.

**68 Stepside** · 05-12-2010, 08:27 PM

Wow, that is horrendous!

68GMCCustom · 05-12-2010, 09:16 PM

looks like I welded 'em up.

8mpg · 05-13-2010, 01:21 AM

Im gonna contact CPPJeff... I kinda doubt they will do anything. Im just gonna weld the insides myself.

Just buyer beware for the guys who dont have a welder.

Leviticus · 05-13-2010, 02:05 AM

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd trust the integrity of the rear of my truck to those welds. Post some pics and what all you did when you are done with them to help the other guys that get in the same boat...if you have time.

Thanks!

Beatcoaster · 05-13-2010, 02:48 AM

Wow, that doesn't look supportive at all!!

Don't trust the bolts that are shipped with their upper ball joints either. I stripped three out of 8 of the supposedly rated 8.8 hardened bolts the other day with just a 1/2" open end wrench(aka not much torque I can get on 5" of leverage). Went to Tacoma Screw and got some true 8.8's and torqued them nicely down with zero issues whatsoever...

dznucks · 05-13-2010, 06:41 AM

Be careful welding them up.

that inside edge has to sit flush against the upper spring plate, that you will more than likely have to grind or torch off, leaving a rough edge.
When you run a weld bead down that inside edge you will have to grind that much back off the spring plate and frame to get the bottom and sides of the c-notch to seat flush against the frame.

when i installed mine i had the same thoughts and didnt weld them for this reason. once bolted in and then welded along the outer edges, most of the load will be removed from that weld joint. I believe that plate is just as thick, if not thicker than the truck frame too.

*Shane* · 05-13-2010, 08:34 AM

dznucks hit it on the nose. there is no weld bead on the inside because that piece needs to sit flush with the frame rails.

there are thousands of these c-notches on the road and I've never heard of a failure due to bad welds.

cdowns · 05-13-2010, 08:47 AM

what great amt of load stress r you people worried about?

dznucks · 05-13-2010, 09:08 AM

If you just reeeeaaaaaally want to add weld to the notch, i would weld the joint (blurry) shown in the 3rd picture. I welded this joint on the front and back side of the notches.

But your going to have to make clearance for that in the notch cut done to the frame.

I do agree though, looking at these pictures, the welds have decent penetration but i think the weld speed was too fast. especially the 4th pic.

8mpg · 05-13-2010, 09:27 AM

I figured I would have to grind the inside welds a bit but it shouldnt be that much due to the frame's curve in the C channel. My welds will be small.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdowns

what great amt of load stress r you people worried about?

What great loads? I still plan on towing with my truck. I understand that most of the support of the frame will be transferred to the long vertical part of the frame and that the bracket is 1/4" steel. But this goes back to safety and Im not willing to risk it. I dont want or need a halfassed truck running down the road. I guess my expectations for a quality product are too high. If the bottom part of the notch wasnt needed, why did CPP put it on there?

*CPPJEFF* · 05-13-2010, 11:51 AM

Hey guys thanks for bringing this topic to my attention. A couple guys touched on why we dont weld the inside of the notch, furthermore we have been selling that notch MADE IN USA for years and i have never had a warranty on one. Although i can see you might have some concern i am telling you it fine go ahead and install it. There are kits on the market where people have copied our notch aand they dont even fit the frame and that kind of stuff would concern me but this notch is a nice fit and will not let you down. Hope this helps kinda release those jitters and continue the install. By the way guys always feeel free to contact me with any issues, as most of you guys know i am more than fair. Thanks Jeff. 888-522-8303 ext 118.

killer71 · 05-13-2010, 12:12 PM

Hmm...wonder if some of the custom frame/suspension builders that are vendors could shed some light on this topic. Maybe a mod could move this thread to the suspension section for better advisement? It's just my opinion but there is no way that I would mount that kind of quality on my truck!

*CPPJEFF* · 05-13-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer71

Hmm...wonder if some of the custom frame/suspension builders that are vendors could shed some light on this topic. Maybe a mod could move this thread to the suspension section for better advisement? It's just my opinion but there is no way that I would mount that kind of quality on my truck!

What you are requesting is us. I have included my engineers in this topic and i am waiting for a reply as i am truly just a salesman but like a i said before i have seen them like this for years and have never seen an issue. I will keep you posted with an answer from the custom frame/ suspension builders that work here when they give me an answer. Thanks

killer71 · 05-13-2010, 12:37 PM

Thats great as they should be included but just because there hasn't been a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. I would also like to see the likes of our custom frame/suspension builders who build these parts for a living to shed some lite as well. I don't mean to sound condescending at all as I'm just giving my opinion. That particular item is a very important part of the frame should someone get a direct hit from the rear end. I'm no engineer or pro at this by any means but I do know based on that view that it could possibly be an issue. Hopefully we can get some answers from the pro's as we truly want the best on our build ups! Thanks for getting on top of this!

*CPPJEFF* · 05-13-2010, 12:40 PM

Ok so here is the skinny, YOU CANNOT WELD THE INSIDE OF THE NOTCH. My Engineer said that some vendors make them in 3/16" plate and he has seen an issue with those breaking but we make our kits in 1/4" plate and WE HAVE NEVER had an issue with our kits in 15 years, if there was a reason to weld the inside we would most certainly do that.

killer71 · 05-13-2010, 12:49 PM

thanks jeff!

*CPPJEFF* · 05-13-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer71

thanks jeff!

No sweat bro!!

basemodel67 · 05-13-2010, 01:08 PM

Some people are funny. Has anyone ever looked at the factory welds on their truck frames? They are 1" long chicken poop sporadically placed, and they seem to be plenty strong. Also, you are cutting out about 6" or less of half a 1/8" thick stamped C-channel and replacing it with steel that is much thicker and stronger, and you are worried about the weld penetration??? Come on! If you notched your frame and even just bolted a flat 3/16" plate on the side, it would probably be stronger than the rail uncut. I would be shocked if you would have any issues with these notches... unless you like fat girls jumping up and down on your bumper for hours every day.

killer71 · 05-13-2010, 01:16 PM

you got sumthin against fat girls?

dznucks · 05-13-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

That particular item is a very important part of the frame should someone get a direct hit from the rear end.

......it doubles as crumple zone......

j/k. I have towed some heavy tongued trailers with mine and I hauled over 3000lbs of dirt last weekend. Nothing has failed.

I feel like its much stronger than the stock frame was in this location.

*CPPJEFF* · 05-13-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basemodel67

Some people are funny. Has anyone ever looked at the factory welds on their truck frames? They are 1" long chicken poop sporadically placed, and they seem to be plenty strong. Also, you are cutting out about 6" or less of half a 1/8" thick stamped C-channel and replacing it with steel that is much thicker and stronger, and you are worried about the weld penetration??? Come on! If you notched your frame and even just bolted a flat 3/16" plate on the side, it would probably be stronger than the rail uncut. I would be shocked if you would have any issues with these notches... unless you like fat girls jumping up and down on your bumper for hours every day.

Thats a classic!! Thanks for the laugh!!

texastrendz · 05-13-2010, 01:35 PM

it could be tig welded and not have to be ground. i am with cpp on this, that thing is never going to break anyway. nice part in my book.

70shortwide · 05-13-2010, 02:59 PM

i bolted mine right on my race truck and my down bars are mounted on the back side of the c notch wich creates alot of pressure back there and ive never had a problem with them

05-12-2010, 06:58 PM	#1
8mpg Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 389	Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Just got the notch in today and while it looks like great penetration and teh outside welds look great, Im less than impressed. Im going to have to go back and weld the inside seams. There was a lack of penetration though the heat rings make it look like it was a good weld. Here are some pics: Looks good from far: Closer up, all you see is a gap between the pieces of steel: Closer: Here is the typical penetration for the whole thing...1/8" or so. The thing in my mind is about 1/2 welded and 1/2 as strong as it could be. Anyone else have a problem with theirs? I sure wouldnt feel safe just bolting it on out of the box. To give them some credit...I just looked over it some more and some of the welds are nice and penetrate better than others, but definitely not 100% on the 1/4" steel. Im gonna say at most its 75% penetration on 30-40% of the welds. Last edited by 8mpg; 05-12-2010 at 07:01 PM.

05-12-2010, 08:23 PM	#2
CARR33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: HAMPSTEAD,MD Posts: 94	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Mine are identical. I didn't inspect them that close when i got them. The welds all look good on the outside, but turn them over and its a different story. I'm surely not going to send them back, i sent back an item that was the wrong part -their fault- and it took over three weeks to get the right part. I'll just pay to get them welded properly.

05-12-2010, 08:27 PM	#3
68 Stepside huh? Join Date: May 2000 Location: Washington, Illinois Posts: 5,690	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Wow, that is horrendous! __________________ Someday when I'm lonely, Wishing you weren't so far away, Then I will remember Things we said today. RIP El Jay

05-12-2010, 09:16 PM	#4
68GMCCustom Truck and auto performance nut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: McKinney,Texas Posts: 3,848	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? looks like I welded 'em up. __________________ Kurt - '68 GMC short step - NIB '09 LY6 6.0L crate motor w/mods, NIB '12 crate 4L85e w/billet 3k stall Circle D, 3.73 posi 12 bolt, DynaTech f-swap headers, 3/4 drop, handling mods, etc. - my toy '72 Chevy LWB C-10 Highlander - 350/350 ps/pb/tilt/ac - not original but close '06 Chevy TrailBlazerSS - LS2/4L70e - little black hot rod SUV - my DD '18 Kia Sorento - wife's econo-driver '95 Chevy S10 - reg cab shortbed, LS, 4.3, auto... my '68's powertrain and chassis build -links broken A surprise phase - carb to efi -links broken

05-13-2010, 01:21 AM	#5
8mpg Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 389	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Im gonna contact CPPJeff... I kinda doubt they will do anything. Im just gonna weld the insides myself. Just buyer beware for the guys who dont have a welder.

05-13-2010, 02:05 AM	#6
Leviticus Shake and Bake! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Coast, CA Posts: 609	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Yeah, I'm not sure I'd trust the integrity of the rear of my truck to those welds. Post some pics and what all you did when you are done with them to help the other guys that get in the same boat...if you have time. Thanks! __________________ "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." Thomas Jefferson "You are remembered for the rules you break." General Douglas MacArthur "Support Our Troops And The NRA"

05-13-2010, 02:48 AM	#7
Beatcoaster 69 Fleetside Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lake Stevens, WA Posts: 333	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Wow, that doesn't look supportive at all!! Don't trust the bolts that are shipped with their upper ball joints either. I stripped three out of 8 of the supposedly rated 8.8 hardened bolts the other day with just a 1/2" open end wrench(aka not much torque I can get on 5" of leverage). Went to Tacoma Screw and got some true 8.8's and torqued them nicely down with zero issues whatsoever... Last edited by Beatcoaster; 05-13-2010 at 02:48 AM.

05-13-2010, 06:41 AM	#8
dznucks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Smyrna, Ga Posts: 1,647	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Be careful welding them up. that inside edge has to sit flush against the upper spring plate, that you will more than likely have to grind or torch off, leaving a rough edge. When you run a weld bead down that inside edge you will have to grind that much back off the spring plate and frame to get the bottom and sides of the c-notch to seat flush against the frame. when i installed mine i had the same thoughts and didnt weld them for this reason. once bolted in and then welded along the outer edges, most of the load will be removed from that weld joint. I believe that plate is just as thick, if not thicker than the truck frame too.

05-13-2010, 08:34 AM	#9
Shane Account Suspended Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: over yonder Posts: 14,270	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? dznucks hit it on the nose. there is no weld bead on the inside because that piece needs to sit flush with the frame rails. there are thousands of these c-notches on the road and I've never heard of a failure due to bad welds.

05-13-2010, 08:47 AM	#10
cdowns Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: daytonabeach Posts: 22,956	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? what great amt of load stress r you people worried about? __________________ 71c-10 350/2004r/4:11 lowered3/4 longbed/dead by hurricane MEANING OF DEATH::::: SOMEBODY ELSE GETS YOUR STUFF DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK TAKE MY ADVISE;I DON'T USE IT ANYWAY

05-13-2010, 09:08 AM	#11
dznucks Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Smyrna, Ga Posts: 1,647	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? If you just reeeeaaaaaally want to add weld to the notch, i would weld the joint (blurry) shown in the 3rd picture. I welded this joint on the front and back side of the notches. But your going to have to make clearance for that in the notch cut done to the frame. I do agree though, looking at these pictures, the welds have decent penetration but i think the weld speed was too fast. especially the 4th pic.

05-13-2010, 11:51 AM	#13
CPPJEFF Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Anaheim California Posts: 713	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Hey guys thanks for bringing this topic to my attention. A couple guys touched on why we dont weld the inside of the notch, furthermore we have been selling that notch MADE IN USA for years and i have never had a warranty on one. Although i can see you might have some concern i am telling you it fine go ahead and install it. There are kits on the market where people have copied our notch aand they dont even fit the frame and that kind of stuff would concern me but this notch is a nice fit and will not let you down. Hope this helps kinda release those jitters and continue the install. By the way guys always feeel free to contact me with any issues, as most of you guys know i am more than fair. Thanks Jeff. 888-522-8303 ext 118.

05-13-2010, 12:12 PM	#14
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Hmm...wonder if some of the custom frame/suspension builders that are vendors could shed some light on this topic. Maybe a mod could move this thread to the suspension section for better advisement? It's just my opinion but there is no way that I would mount that kind of quality on my truck! __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07 Last edited by killer71; 05-13-2010 at 12:13 PM.

05-13-2010, 12:37 PM	#16
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Thats great as they should be included but just because there hasn't been a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. I would also like to see the likes of our custom frame/suspension builders who build these parts for a living to shed some lite as well. I don't mean to sound condescending at all as I'm just giving my opinion. That particular item is a very important part of the frame should someone get a direct hit from the rear end. I'm no engineer or pro at this by any means but I do know based on that view that it could possibly be an issue. Hopefully we can get some answers from the pro's as we truly want the best on our build ups! Thanks for getting on top of this! __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07 Last edited by killer71; 05-13-2010 at 12:39 PM.

05-13-2010, 12:40 PM	#17
CPPJEFF Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Anaheim California Posts: 713	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Ok so here is the skinny, YOU CANNOT WELD THE INSIDE OF THE NOTCH. My Engineer said that some vendors make them in 3/16" plate and he has seen an issue with those breaking but we make our kits in 1/4" plate and WE HAVE NEVER had an issue with our kits in 15 years, if there was a reason to weld the inside we would most certainly do that.



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05-13-2010, 12:49 PM	#18
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? thanks jeff! __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07

05-13-2010, 01:08 PM	#20
basemodel67 Factory Strippers Rule! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shingle Springs, CA Posts: 707	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? Some people are funny. Has anyone ever looked at the factory welds on their truck frames? They are 1" long chicken poop sporadically placed, and they seem to be plenty strong. Also, you are cutting out about 6" or less of half a 1/8" thick stamped C-channel and replacing it with steel that is much thicker and stronger, and you are worried about the weld penetration??? Come on! If you notched your frame and even just bolted a flat 3/16" plate on the side, it would probably be stronger than the rail uncut. I would be shocked if you would have any issues with these notches... unless you like fat girls jumping up and down on your bumper for hours every day. __________________ "Feast your eyes on a feast of smoke." 67 Chevy Short Fleet PLAN: LQ9, 4L60, D60 Looking for School Bus Gauges - Help me out!

05-13-2010, 01:16 PM	#21
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? you got sumthin against fat girls? __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07

05-13-2010, 01:35 PM	#24
texastrendz Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: HOUSTON TX Posts: 1,161	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? it could be tig welded and not have to be ground. i am with cpp on this, that thing is never going to break anyway. nice part in my book.

05-13-2010, 02:59 PM	#25
70shortwide Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: coweta, ok Posts: 86	Re: Anyone else have to fix a CPP bolt in notch? i bolted mine right on my race truck and my down bars are mounted on the back side of the c notch wich creates alot of pressure back there and ive never had a problem with them

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