24v Questions

[notchbackgta]

I am assuming this is an industrial engine since it is front sump on the oil pan?



This one is sort of in the best shape. One of the other ones still has the harness uncut but I think there was something else wrong or missing.

Two of them have air compressors, one they cut through the bolted on piece on the enhausting housing with the torch, and I think the harness was torched off on that one too, RIGHT AT THE ECM.

If I got that one, would I be able to use that bellhousing with a Dodge NV4500?

[63c102013]

It does look to be an industrial motor. Not sure about the bell housing. I know the industrial trucks didn't have a nv4500

[notchbackgta]

There is another industrial with a transmission, I think the bell is similar to that one.

Is that a power steering pump under the IP?

[Dieselwrencher]

That is an industrial/medium duty truck engine. The top pump is the injection pump, a VP44. Below that is where the ps pump is. That one doesn't have an air compressor from what I can see.

[patdaly]

In case anyone is interested in a VE swap, here is some info.

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/f...ersion-307482/

There is another guy who didn't need new lines, he found a timesert brand thinwall thread repair insert adapted the 12Mm VE to the 14 MM VP lines just fine.

[notchbackgta]

I know this is old, but I have been looking at buying a complete truck, but I found someone selling a VE pump take off. What should I expect to pay for the pump, lines gear cover and housing? He is asking $450 for the pump, that may be for all of it, but I just realized I think he was asking $450 for only the pump. he said it is low miles and the pictures of the pump, it is very clean where most other pictures people post pictures everything is covered in crud. I figure the pump is probably worth that as a core even if I get it and it needs a rebuild.

**the guy got back to me, he wants $600 for it all including the pump, I think that sounds like a good deal but I don't know prices for the individual parts.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

I know this is old, but I have been looking at buying a complete truck, but I found someone selling a VE pump take off. What should I expect to pay for the pump, lines gear cover and housing? He is asking $450 for the pump, that may be for all of it, but I just realized I think he was asking $450 for only the pump. he said it is low miles and the pictures of the pump, it is very clean where most other pictures people post pictures everything is covered in crud. I figure the pump is probably worth that as a core even if I get it and it needs a rebuild.

**the guy got back to me, he wants $600 for it all including the pump, I think that sounds like a good deal but I don't know prices for the individual parts.

That's not too bad. Core VE's are about $250. Case and gear probably another $150 depending on the seller. To rebuild a VE that isn't trashed is $500 on up. So $600 isn't out of line.

[notchbackgta]

Well, I paid $725 for the VE pump, lines, case+cover, throttle bracket, two lift pumps, the vacuum/PS pump and something else.

Now I can focus on buying a 94-98 Dodge pickup and sell the p-pump and part the vehicle out and keep all the stuff that I want to use including the radiator (maybe) intercooler, exhaust etc. I would like to keep a mechanical fan on it with the theme of the drivetrain being all mechanical.
I will probably buy the Banks intake setup for it and do the fuel pin and associated adjustments, depending on when I get started. I want to finish my 73 Camaro before the Cummins swap in the Suburban

[Dieselwrencher]

73 Camaro? Don't hold out on us! What Banks intake are you wanting for it?

[notchbackgta]

Not much to tell/show on the Camaro right now. It was my main project until I stopped hanging out with the local car club. Got it as a 454/TH400/4.11 with stock size tires, but it sucked to drive around town, so much drone and RPM at like 45mph. I put in 3.42 gears and put the wheels from my 3rd gen on it and it was a lot better. Then I put a spare T56 I had lying around and then was able to get mileage on the highway, I think around 11mpg, then I put a Holley TBI on it and got around 13mpg. After that I started buying pro-touring parts for it, I have the Anvil Auto Carbon fiber one piece nose, flat hood, inner fenders, trunk and filler and low one piece spoiler. The suspension is Customworks performance, front coil overs, fiberglass rear leafs, AFCO one way shocks all around. After I bought all that I decided to pull the BBC and put in the 4.8 I had sitting on the stand since I wanted to go LS anyway. I got the 4.8 and all the wiring done, then I pulled all that out and put the 4.8 in my 92 firebird. So, the Camaro sits in the driveway with no engine or trans and no interior really. I want to drive it at NJMP for the Ultimate street car challenge this year since I have two earned participant entries. I have an LS1 that is parts that I plan on putting in it for the event with a T56, 4.11 rear with a Torsen. I also want to do the body work on the car so it looks nice. I don't know how much I will get done though, I am running out of money and too many projects, I feel like I should sell it and continue with my truck and Suburban and focus on the plan I have for life...... decisions decisions.

Anyway, I was thinking the Banks intake for the 94-98 Dodge pickup with the Y split. I am not sure if it will work with the VE pump on the engine instead of the p though. I like stock, but I have a feeling like I am going to want to do some upgrades, and I think that would be a good part to have in the beginning since I may be fabricating the intake tubes anyway.
Also, I think you had issues with the vacuum pump being on your engine? I found someone that may may brackets to delete the vacuum pump, so you can run the power steering pump directly on the back of the case. Some people are saying it is not worth the money/trouble, I think it would make life easier as there would be one less point of failure for something that I don't even need. What is your opinion on that?

[Bigdav160]

Nothing wrong with Diesels, 67-72 Chevy trucks and the occasional second gen Camaro.

Mine isn't much better than this at the moment.
OK, it is off the rotisserie and on four wheels again. TPI, T-5 and a 3:42 rear gear. Just a cruiser

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

Nothing wrong with Diesels, 67-72 Chevy trucks and the occasional second gen Camaro.

Mine isn't much better than this at the moment.
OK, it is off the rotisserie and on four wheels again. TPI, T-5 and a 3:42 rear gear. Just a cruiser

Sweet, what year-details on the Burb? Looks 4wd? I plan on making mine 4wd too

I am thinking of making a rotisserie for future car projects, as I would like to do this for other people. I am working on my 92 Firebird right now and I finally made some stands to get my jack stands up high enough that I can work under there more comfortable. I need to add a few more levels of 2x4 though, I got to a point and it was late and tired. I think the bottom of the car is like 30something inches up

[Dieselwrencher]

on the intake, honestly, build your own or let me know and I will build one for you. The ps/vac pump wasn't really an issue. The non intercooled engines have a diaphragm vac pump and are prone to failure. So I went with the vane type that are on the intercooled engines. I think I used one from a 02 so I had to make a support bracket for it. I would do it again. I've used that same style vac/saginaw ps pump on a lot of builds and never had an issue.

I'm glad I don't live closer to you. I'd love to have another 70-73 Camaro. Like a moron, I traded my 72 RS as a roller for corvette parts. I should have kept the camaro and just paid cash for the vette parts over time. Oh well. What do you do?

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

on the intake, honestly, build your own or let me know and I will build one for you. The ps/vac pump wasn't really an issue. The non intercooled engines have a diaphragm vac pump and are prone to failure. So I went with the vane type that are on the intercooled engines. I think I used one from a 02 so I had to make a support bracket for it. I would do it again. I've used that same style vac/saginaw ps pump on a lot of builds and never had an issue.

I'm glad I don't live closer to you. I'd love to have another 70-73 Camaro. Like a moron, I traded my 72 RS as a roller for corvette parts. I should have kept the camaro and just paid cash for the vette parts over time. Oh well. What do you do?

I thought you had an interference issue in your build, or one of you. I don't need the vacuum pump, so I thought it would be good to get rid of it, but then I just found out if I want to run an exhaust brake they run off vacuum, so that me be a reason to keep it.
What is wrong with the banks? I could fab my own if there is some reason I shouldn't use that

I dunno, I have like $40k in the camaro and it doesn't even run and drive right now I don't know if I can afford to sell it. I really WANT to move out west though, maybe we can come up with a deal, lol

[Dieselwrencher]

Have you priced a banks twin ram intake? I'm not even sure they make one that will work for a rotary pump 24v but I could be wrong.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Have you priced a banks twin ram intake? I'm not even sure they make one that will work for a rotary pump 24v but I could be wrong.

I was looking at the one for the 94-98 Truck. I think it is $650? at Summit. It seems like a decent kit and looks factory-ish compared to some of the other aftermarket ones. I think This one is the one I was looking at
Too bad I don't need it, or have the funds, It is on sale right now

[notchbackgta]

So, I have another question. How much is all the P-Pump stuff worth? I am actively looking to buy a 94-98 truck to part out, but I have a VE pump already that I will use instead. Just wondering about how much I can sell a complete p-pump setup for.
Also. I missed out on the injectors from the VE setup. What are the spec for new stock injectors? I am not sure what I am looking at when I look at sites that sell them, some have 5 holes, some 6, type etc.
I was also thinking about buying the M&H timing control and smoke control spacers. Are they worth it on the VE pump?
I am not sure whether the gear on the VE pump can be put in different places and I was thinking that I may need to re-time the gear when I put it back on, or is the gear Keyed? I didn't look at it when I stuck it in the box.
Thanks

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

So, I have another question. How much is all the P-Pump stuff worth? I am actively looking to buy a 94-98 truck to part out, but I have a VE pump already that I will use instead. Just wondering about how much I can sell a complete p-pump setup for.
Also. I missed out on the injectors from the VE setup. What are the spec for new stock injectors? I am not sure what I am looking at when I look at sites that sell them, some have 5 holes, some 6, type etc.
I was also thinking about buying the M&H timing control and smoke control spacers. Are they worth it on the VE pump?
I am not sure whether the gear on the VE pump can be put in different places and I was thinking that I may need to re-time the gear when I put it back on, or is the gear Keyed? I didn't look at it when I stuck it in the box.
Thanks

Which p pump do you have? Usually a used p pump kit goes for $1200-$1800 depending on the pump, and if you have the dodge throttle assembly and FSS. I would do the spacers if doing it over again. On injectors, I know a guy who can get you those. What kind of power are you after? Yes, the VE gear is keyed, and it has 3 different letters on the gear as to where the timing can be placed. Each letter is for a different application and it can effect performance. Here is a thread talking about where they are on a 1990.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/89...rive-gear.html

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Which p pump do you have? Usually a used p pump kit goes for $1200-$1800 depending on the pump, and if you have the dodge throttle assembly and FSS. I would do the spacers if doing it over again. On injectors, I know a guy who can get you those. What kind of power are you after? Yes, the VE gear is keyed, and it has 3 different letters on the gear as to where the timing can be placed. Each letter is for a different application and it can effect performance. Here is a thread talking about where they are on a 1990.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/89...rive-gear.html

I don't have a pump yet, I just got 7k so I can buy a 94-98 dodge truck with a p-pump and part it out, since I want to try to use the radiator, CAC, tubing, exhaust etc and try to get the engine as "cheap" as possible after I sell everything I can. Probably going to drive it for a few months first since my 69 pickup frame ripped the PHB mount off and I need a truck to be a truck for a short while. The Cummins will go in my 69 suburban though.

As far as injectors and whatnot, I'm just looking for basically stock VE, I may turn the power screw in a bit, but that would be it. I would rather go for mileage since I won't tow much with it. If you have a connection I am interested. I was probably going to go with THD fuel pin and the rod end linkage, so I was going to buy injectors through them, new stock Bosch, they seem like a decent price. I wasn't sure whether I needed nozzles in addition to the injectors though.

OK, I am glad the gear is keyed, I didn't want to have to go through the process of trying to find the lift points with a dial indicator.

[notchbackgta]

I read through that thread, but I was wondering if the gear on the pump is positively located on the pump shaft, or of it is just a taper and the gear can go where ever you want on the shaft. The timing letters are helpful too.

I did download a few service manuals for Dodge trucks so I have something to reference, but I haven't looked at them yet. I got the 1993 and 1996 manuals since the engine I will have will be from a later vehicle and the pump will be from an earlier one

[notchbackgta]

I opened the manual, it looks like I will have to time the pump to the gear since the guy I bought the VE from had removed the pump from the gear housing. :/

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

I read through that thread, but I was wondering if the gear on the pump is positively located on the pump shaft, or of it is just a taper and the gear can go where ever you want on the shaft. The timing letters are helpful too.

I did download a few service manuals for Dodge trucks so I have something to reference, but I haven't looked at them yet. I got the 1993 and 1996 manuals since the engine I will have will be from a later vehicle and the pump will be from an earlier one

The injection pump is shaft has a key in it and there is a slot in the gear for the key. Only the P-pumps do not have the key. Unless you pony up and get an adjustable gear.

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

I opened the manual, it looks like I will have to time the pump to the gear since the guy I bought the VE from had removed the pump from the gear housing. :/

You just put the gear in the stock position for a dodge. The service manual will tell you which letter to use. You will want to use a VE cam gear since the P pump cam gear won't have the C like the VE's do. I used my 24v gear and used the stock dot with no issues. As far as timing the pump to the housing, without a spacer you rotate it as close to the head as you can go. That is not over kill by any means. I've been running Denny T pins and am a dealer for them. What turbo do you plan to run? By the way, stock non intercooled nozzles are 4x.010 I think. I usually put a 5x.010 or 5x.012 in them.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

The injection pump is shaft has a key in it and there is a slot in the gear for the key. Only the P-pumps do not have the key. Unless you pony up and get an adjustable gear.



You just put the gear in the stock position for a dodge. The service manual will tell you which letter to use. You will want to use a VE cam gear since the P pump cam gear won't have the C like the VE's do. I used my 24v gear and used the stock dot with no issues. As far as timing the pump to the housing, without a spacer you rotate it as close to the head as you can go. That is not over kill by any means. I've been running Denny T pins and am a dealer for them. What turbo do you plan to run? By the way, stock non intercooled nozzles are 4x.010 I think. I usually put a 5x.010 or 5x.012 in them.

OK, I was going through the IP section of the manual and it was going on about using a dial indicator and timing it to 1.25mm, so I assumed it meant there was no key on the shaft. That section also referenced the engine section of the manual for setting stuff up, but I didn't get that far before I needed to go to bed. I think I got the cam gear with the VE setup, so I will make sure I use that and give the P pump gear when I sell.

I plan on the stock turbo, unless there is something wrong with what ever I get, if I have to replace it for any reason I would consider putting something bigger/faster on. I pretty much plan on doing a head gasket and head studs before I put the engine in, just as a precaution. I guess I would be OK with the 5x injectors. I don't want to roll coal or anything, I want to be as incognito as possible, but a little extra power if need be.

Going to look at this truck tomorrow, price is right, seems pretty clean and not too many miles. I think I can get him under $4,000 since the ad he has on Facebook is only $4,200
https://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/6159262415.html

[Dieselwrencher]

If yo plan on keeping it relatively stock, don't waste your money on studs. Stock head bolts will hold for what you're going to do just fine. That truck has a 47rh in it. That would be a really good buy at $3500.

[notchbackgta]

My cousin is the wheeler and dealer, I wish he was able to go with me, he said he thinks he could get the guy down to $3,500 too