24v Questions

[notchbackgta]

I just got home from the junk yard. They had 3 24v Cummins in the engine area, already pulled out of trucks. I really wanted a 12v to put in a Suburban, but I think engines are only $140 each, so I am thinking I would take all three, even if to make only one good one in the end. They are just the engine for the most part, with accessories, I think one still had a transmission attached, manual, which is what I would want.
My question is, can I take the 24v pump off and any of the electronics and put on a VE or P pump and make it run that way? I am really new to the Cummins, I really only know what I have read here.
I have a search saved on craigslist and it emails me with all the Dodge trucks from 89 to 98 that get listed in my area, haven't thought much about the 24v as I wanted to keep electronics out of on old vehicle.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[notchbackgta]

Also, if I can P or VE pump a 24v, is there anything wrong with those engines that are not as good as the older 12V engines?

[Bigdav160]

My wife and I both drive 24v as daily drivers. Mine is VE and her's is a common rail.

They have been excellent trucks. Lot of power and easily upgraded. Both are a@ 130k and never a problem. OK, I had to upgrade the lift pump .

Some guys will shy away from anything electronic. Modules don't scare me. However the 24v can be "P Pumped". Check out different Cummins forums. It doesn't look that hard.

[Maxxd07]

Front housing, custom lines and adjusted pop pressure on the injectors will get you out of the VP44 and into a VE or P-pump. You will have to remove the cam to change it. I know Scheids has a kit and I am sure others have them too or Dieselwrencher probably has enough stuff laying around to do a swap. Personally I have a 24v that needs a rebuild that I plan on p-pumping one day and picked up a front housing on e-bay for pretty reasonable. I think you can piece it together other than lines if you want to be cheap. A google search will get you all kinds of info on the subject. Just make sure the 24v block doesn't have a "53" just below the injection pump and you will be fine. The 53 blocks were prone to cracking.

[63c102013]

My dad is a 24v and other than putting to much power in it and taken a trans out I love my truck. Cummins performance parts sells a whole kit to swap it over but then you will most likely have to pay someone to put it on and get a pump. If you look around someone probably has a wiring diagram for it. The whole 53 block thing shouldn't scare you. If it hasn't cracked yet it probably won't unless it's really low mileage. Only about 1% of them crack. If there are any with no numbers on passenger side towards the front down by the oil pan you have a Mexican block which are the strongest blocks. Good luck with your build

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Maxxd07

Front housing, custom lines and adjusted pop pressure on the injectors will get you out of the VP44 and into a VE or P-pump. You will have to remove the cam to change it. I know Scheids has a kit

Is this the kit from Scheids?
http://www.scheiddiesel.com/scheid-d...-not-included/

[63c102013]

That's the correct kit. The kit from cummins performane parts is 1500 so it's a little cheaper. I have ordered a bunch of parts from them and not had bad luck.

http://www.cumminsperformanceparts.c...okit24vc2.html

[notchbackgta]

Thanks for the link, hopefully they keep the price around there, lol.

Is it worth it to convert the 24v over a 12v? is the head flow better? Are there any other reasons to do this other than convenience? I am thinking that I can probably sell quite a few of the parts off the engines that I wont need to help pay for P pump conversion parts? I dont know the state of any of the engines in the yard, though I assume they ran when pulled because of where they are, in the part of the yard where you're not allowed to take tools, they sell those engines as running.
I am not looking to change the engine from "stock" other than I just don't want the controls there since I want to keep it simple. Even if I bought a 12v I would only do a little to get more power out of it, but I am willing to tear this down and check the insides, re-ring etc if necessary. I just want to make sure it is worth spending $450 to only have to spend another $3,000+
Thanks for the input so far

[63c102013]

If you are looking to make a lot of power then yes the 24v flows better for the obvious reason that there are more values but you can also have the intake planum shaved and go with an individual runner style intake on 12v to get better flow in. It depends on how crazy you want to get really. Good luck. If you end up getting these and want to sell some parts let me know because I would be interested in some of them

[Maxxd07]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

Is this the kit from Scheids?
http://www.scheiddiesel.com/scheid-d...-not-included/

That is the one, that's why I think a guy could piece a kit together cheaper.

[Maxxd07]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

Thanks for the link, hopefully they keep the price around there, lol.

Is it worth it to convert the 24v over a 12v? is the head flow better? Are there any other reasons to do this other than convenience? I am thinking that I can probably sell quite a few of the parts off the engines that I wont need to help pay for P pump conversion parts? I dont know the state of any of the engines in the yard, though I assume they ran when pulled because of where they are, in the part of the yard where you're not allowed to take tools, they sell those engines as running.
I am not looking to change the engine from "stock" other than I just don't want the controls there since I want to keep it simple. Even if I bought a 12v I would only do a little to get more power out of it, but I am willing to tear this down and check the insides, re-ring etc if necessary. I just want to make sure it is worth spending $450 to only have to spend another $3,000+
Thanks for the input so far

Just the fact that you can get engines for 450 is worth it unless you wait around for the deal of the century on a 12vpickup. My buddy stumbled on a 95 for a 1000 bucks that had under 200,000 miles and a 5 speed. And it was HAMMERED out, frame cracked, cab mounts busted and broke. Was previously a pick-n-roll ranch truck from out in the sticks. Usually can't find a junker here for under 2500 and at 2500 that's a tough find unless it has 500,000 miles on it. I would buy a complete cummins in any form that came out of a running truck for 450 all day. I would have to drive a ways to find a deal like that since even junkyards seem to want $1000+ for a cummins out of a running truck.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

My wife and I both drive 24v as daily drivers. Mine is VE and her's is a common rail.

They have been excellent trucks. Lot of power and easily upgraded. Both are a@ 130k and never a problem. OK, I had to upgrade the lift pump .

Some guys will shy away from anything electronic. Modules don't scare me. However the 24v can be "P Pumped". Check out different Cummins forums. It doesn't look that hard.

Did you mean yours is a VP and not a VE?

[Dieselwrencher]

I wouldn't say a 24v flows mire or better because it has more valves. They are half the size of a 12v, but both heads have the same restrictive intake area. I've seen make the same kind of power at different levels. I have a 'VE and a P pump 24v. Both are great, but I've also grown to like a VP44 too. It's nice to have the availability of the electronic IP too, and they're not that hard to wire up either.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Maxxd07

Just the fact that you can get engines for 450 is worth it unless you wait around for the deal of the century on a 12vpickup. My buddy stumbled on a 95 for a 1000 bucks that had under 200,000 miles and a 5 speed. And it was HAMMERED out, frame cracked, cab mounts busted and broke. Was previously a pick-n-roll ranch truck from out in the sticks. Usually can't find a junker here for under 2500 and at 2500 that's a tough find unless it has 500,000 miles on it. I would buy a complete cummins in any form that came out of a running truck for 450 all day. I would have to drive a ways to find a deal like that since even junkyards seem to want $1000+ for a cummins out of a running truck.

Just to clarify, I think each engine is $140, but I have to call to verify

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

I wouldn't say a 24v flows mire or better because it has more valves. They are half the size of a 12v, but both heads have the same restrictive intake area. I've seen make the same kind of power at different levels. I have a 'VE and a P pump 24v. Both are great, but I've also grown to like a VP44 too. It's nice to have the availability of the electronic IP too, and they're not that hard to wire up either.

One reason I am wondering on all this is because the wiring harnesses are completely cut off the computer on the sides of the block, and I would rather not get into all that on this vehicle. I am going to be building harnesses from scratch on two of my other projects and I am liking the simplicity of Starter, grid heater and fuel solenoid.

Unless you tell me that making the harness for the electronic IP is really simple.....

[Dieselwrencher]

It isn't as simple as a fuel shut off solenoid, grid heater, voltage reg, and gauges, no. For $140 you better buy every one. That's a steal! Used cranks are $300 and up, good non cracked head $400 up on a 24v, good non 53 block not needing any machine work is probably $600-$1000. You could make your money back for sure. If you need stuff to do the P-pump swap, I have a few sets of everything except the conversion lines. I haven't been thrilled with any of the P-pump conversion lines we've ever put on. They are all bent wrong or not bent correctly. None of them allow the rear engine lifting bracket to stay on the head either. We've gotten them from several different places. They should fit nice for what they cost.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

It isn't as simple as a fuel shut off solenoid, grid heater, voltage reg, and gauges, no. For $140 you better buy every one. That's a steal! Used cranks are $300 and up, good non cracked head $400 up on a 24v, good non 53 block not needing any machine work is probably $600-$1000. You could make your money back for sure. If you need stuff to do the P-pump swap, I have a few sets of everything except the conversion lines. I haven't been thrilled with any of the P-pump conversion lines we've ever put on. They are all bent wrong or not bent correctly. None of them allow the rear engine lifting bracket to stay on the head either. We've gotten them from several different places. They should fit nice for what they cost.

Thanks for the reply, at least I know I can get my money back out of them easily.
I REALLY want to get them, but I don't have anywhere to put them really, nor a good way to move them around. I took Friday off to go back there for something else I started to take apart, but didn't have the proper sockets for and they had a 4.8 GM LR4 (LS based engine) that I wanted to get too, lol. My friend said I could borrow his truck at least, so I can get them home. I am thinking furniture dollys and some 3/4" plywood on top so I can at least move them around.

[Bigdav160]

Did you mean yours is a VP and not a VE?

Typo. I know the VP has a bad rap but I haven't any problem with mine.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

Thanks for the reply, at least I know I can get my money back out of them easily.
I REALLY want to get them, but I don't have anywhere to put them really, nor a good way to move them around. I took Friday off to go back there for something else I started to take apart, but didn't have the proper sockets for and they had a 4.8 GM LR4 (LS based engine) that I wanted to get too, lol. My friend said I could borrow his truck at least, so I can get them home. I am thinking furniture dollys and some 3/4" plywood on top so I can at least move them around.

I have used an old creeper that had heavy duty wheels to move one a couple of times. The floor has to be pretty smooth though.

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

Typo. I know the VP has a bad rap but I haven't any problem with mine.

They do have a bad rap. But if you have a good one they usually do last along time. As long as you have a good lift pump, and change the fuel filter regularly, they seem to be fine. The electronics in them were not very good at all stock. The cheaper reman ones don't last long either. The parts fail prematurely in a result of being cheaply made. The VP technology has came a long way since they were put in the market.

[63c102013]

Yea the VP isn't to bad once you get a good lift pump on it. I also learned that a big problem is the lubrication of the pump because of the fuel change in 06. I have gone threw 2 on my dd and am on my 3rd but I finally have a good lift pump and poor additive in every dill up and my truck runs better than ever

[notchbackgta]

Gah, well there goes that. They want ~$800 for diesel engines, "depending on what they are missing".

I am still going this weekend, but I don't think I will bother with the 24v unless the time comes where I want a Cummins and I haven't found a complete truck to pull it out of. I may see how much each one really is and see if I can get them down a bit in price but I think with the conversion cost of parts, would need a P pump and not knowing the state of the engines, it isn't worth it right now. I remember at least one of them didn't have the intake elbow on it and water was probably getting right in.

Thanks for all your input

[b454rat]

Not to steal the post, but local yard to me has 2 6bt's, one p-pumped 12v and one 24v. I'm getting the 12v, but I can get the 24v pretty cheap. I wanted to convert the 12v to 24, or vise versa, but from what I was told wasn't really worth it. The 12v needs to completely gone over, and wanted to resell the 24v to recoup some cost. What does a complete running 24v go for? ECM is gone or would have been gone by now...I heard this truck run, and it's complete. Had 300+miles on it....

[63c102013]

Without the Ecm it's worth around 1500. There is one close to me that has the Ecm but no front accessoriesfor 1200 it would be great for a p-pump swap though

[b454rat]

Now to find a buyer....

[Dieselwrencher]

Did it come from a Dodge? That will affect the price a little too. Some people don't want a non dodge version. Too me it doesn't matter.

[b454rat]

It's 99 Dodge IIRC....One I'm getting is out of a pusher bus. 190 horse p-pump. It threw me off cause it's a 93, only thing I know bout cummins (which isn't all that much) was the Dodge stuff, p-pump came out in 94. But after talking with a bunch of cummins people, p-pumps were used before the Dodge stuff. I was gonna get it today, but gotta do lil road from some rims.....