shortblock tommorow!

[low 84]

if he did that he'd be over 100 hp short of his goal, lol

[CRRoy71]

Originally posted by swervin ervin


how about tomorrow, after you talk to the guy, get a list of what it is. Get it all in writing, piece for piece. Then you come back on here and tell us, what the hell it is you are paying 700 bucks for.

That is the best advice.

Unless you know what you are dealing with, there is no way we can tell you if it is a good deal or not.

I paid $1200 just for a rotating assembly. (just for comparison)
A stock rebuild kit without crank is around $250 crank is another $100-200 for a stock crank. So there is a big difference in just parts alone.

Like Mike said, find out what your getting, and then let us know.

[ocbaud]

71' 350 block
2-bolt main

would be bored .030 over
line honed
bored with torque plates
crank turned and polished
stock rods reworked.
zero decked
balanced
cast flattop pistons
assembled


they guy does seem to know a lot about what he is doing. He has many MANY engines and bare blocks and parts around his shop. many NICE EXPENSIVE parts.

[low 84]

too much. thats basically a stock short block for 700. i can't believe hes using cast pistons, stock rods, stock crank............i would look else where.

did you look at that link i posted? that guy is selling a motor thats at the performance level you want 100% complete carb to pan.

[ocbaud]

Originally posted by low 84
too much. thats basically a stock short block for 700. i can't believe hes using cast pistons, stock rods, stock crank............i would look else where.

did you look at that link i posted? that guy is selling a motor thats at the performance level you want 100% complete carb to pan.

no money for it right now

[low 84]

then i would just wait till you have the cash to get something better because stock rods and cast pistons really arn't going to cut it if you want to make the kind of power you are talking about and not go boom boom

[BaggedC10]

Originally posted by ocbaud
no money for it right now

Either way, you should wait! It seems to me you are rushing into a mistake w/ this rebuilt motor. Don't get caught up in the "excitement" of things. Do it once, do it right.

[78SilveradoSWB]

You can overclock a Pentium 4 or AMD processor for speed, but you can't overclock a stock engine for speed and the big horsepower you are looking for. Sorry for the pund, but the guys are right and you should wait and figure what dollars you are wanting to spend for the power and go from there.

[79BIG10]

I say forget all this rebuilt stuff and get you a brand new Z4 short block. This has a tough bottom end like you are wanting and already assembled. Hell you can even get to use a roller cam as well in that thing

[PHOENIX]

I thought about getting a ZZ4 when I need a new motor, but isnt the warranty only 1-year on the GM performance engines?

I have the crate 350 now ($1300) and it had a 3-year warranty.Still runs smooth adn strong.

May chose the rebuild route when it comes time. But buying a crate motor you spend a little more money, but deal with less hassle and have a GM warranty. Not a bad route for guys like us who havent rebuilt an engine and dont want the problems that can come.

[Captkaos]

I think $700 isn't that bad of a deal for what you are getting if all you have to do is add heads and an intake.

I personaly rebuilt the 350 in my Jimmy. It had to be bored, crank had to be turned, and it has cast pistons in it. Total without the heads ( it was a complete shortblock ) was right at $700. I needed new head, so I exchanged them, another $200 compared to the $350 they wanted for rebuilding them.

I am not sure what they charge where everyone else is getting motors built, but here the days of a good rebuild for under $600 is WAY gone. And I knew the guy doing it and got a discount on the machine work.

BTW, you would be amazed at what Cast pistons can take. I am running cast in every motor I own right now. (other than the Jeep )

[swervin ervin]

Yes, for what you are getting, $700.00 is not bad. I had a price to rebuild the old 305 that came in my truck, before I bought the 350, of 1200.00. So for 700, don't expect too much. Anyone who claim's you can build one for a couple hunderd, they are living in a dream world.

Cast pistons will take a lot of abuse. Heck, GM used cast pistions in every engine built back when they made horsepower, even the 427's and 454's came with cast pistons. Now if you are thinking about spraying it, go forged. But, personally, I don't want forged pistons in any engine of mine. I don't like the start up knock they make. I can't handle engines that knock, or slap, by design or otherwise. Best all around piston is a hypertectic (SP?). This is what piston I would prefer for the street not sprayed.

A ZZ4 shortblock is a very good starting point for your engine. It comes with a steel crank and good rods and pistons. A little on the high side, but the work is already done and it's new parts. All you have to do is add the cam and related stuff. And the biggest thing, you can use a factory roller cam.

I wouldn't rush into this for sure. I did but at the time wasn't planning on adding any high power stuff. Look at it now. So, what I'm saying is be sure you are getting what you need, not exactly what you want. They are different you know. Don't cheap out on the engine or you will be sorry for a long time. $700 dollars is cheap.

[ocbaud]

Originally posted by swervin ervin
$700 dollars is cheap.

to cheap? i thought it was to expensive

[swervin ervin]

I never said that. All I wanted to know was what was you getting for 700 bucks. Reason was, for $700.00 don't expect too much in the way of high performance parts, which after seeing your list, you ain't getting any.

[CRRoy71]

Eric, I don't think 700.00 is that bad of a deal. I think the main thing to look at here, is how are you going to build this engine? If you are looking for a high performance engine, then you might want to save up a little more money to do the short block with a little better parts. If you are just building a mild street motor, then that 700.00 short block is the way to go. Just don't jump into an engine that will not hold up to your expectations just because you can afford it now.

If you think the stock short block for 700.00 will handle everything else that you are going to be putting on it, go for it!

[Tom]

Theres nothing wrong with a stock crank+ rods. Those parts will take 500hp as long as you don't rev the heck out of it. The only thing I dont like is the cast pistons. At least get him to put in hypertecn**** [bla bla bla, I have no idea how you spell it, the high silacon pistons]

[Captkaos]

DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me.

[swervin ervin]

Originally posted by CRRoy71
If you think the stock short block for 700.00 will handle everything else that you are going to be putting on it, go for it!

See, this is the thing. This is why he's asking us. He don't know what he needs, only what he can afford right now. If you are expecting to produce 450 hp from a small block, you better use some better parts. It will need to be a high revving engine to get to 450 hp. Not anything a stock rod, cast piston, and crank engines needs to be doing for very long. To make 450 hp in a small block, you need to rev it to 6500-7000. 5000 rpm won't do it. There's only so much power down low. Now if it was a big block, it would make more power down low. Also, don't worry so much about horse power. Torque is what you are after. This works a lot better in these heavy trucks. Horse power comes in the higher rpm anyway, somewhere you won't be much on the street. Everyone worries about HP because it sounds good to say I have 450 hp.

Just use as good of a shortblock as you can afford. Build it better than you think you would ever need it. Then add a good set of heads, cam, intake, carb, and exhaust and the horse power will come. If you don't have the money to do it right at the present time, once again, don't cheap out and regret it later. Wait until you do get some more money. You will be way ahead of the game.

[Tom]

Originally posted by swervin ervin


To make 450 hp in a small block, you need to rev it to 6500-7000.

I dis-agree, to a point. It dosen't take 6500rpm to make 450hp in a small block 350. It will take him that much RPM to do it though considering his compression, cam and heads. Stock crank+ rods will take 6500rpm, but not without ARP rod bolts and ARP main studs to help out. Id be more afraid of the crank giving out then the rods. The pistons will take whatever, as long as he dosen't go into detonation or forced induction of any type.
My cast crank+piston, stock 5.7" rodded 383 is making a little over 400hp at a lowly 5500rpm. I revved it to 6000rpm on the reguler for burnouts and even hit 8k once [big oops!]

[swervin ervin]

Tom,

do you really realize how much horsepower 450 hp is? It's a ton in a 350. Every dyno test I've ever seen or heard of, if you can believe them, makes hp this high in the upper rpm. You will never make 450 hp at 4 to 5 grand in a 350. I don't care what anyone says.

Also, how do you know your 383 is making the hp you say it is. You've never had it dynoed, have you?

This is turning into one of them, I have this and I have that threads. Let's get back on topic. I wasn't trying to start a discussion on how much hp everyone has, or thinks they have.

[ocbaud]

i said that i would want it to handle 450hp at the most. i'm only looking at making around 400hp give or take a little bit.

arp bolts will be used on the mains and the rods.

recommend me a set of decent hypertec.... pistons for a decent price.

[LOHRTBT]

THis is not to argue...not to flame...not to disagree..just a pretty graph. I agree that carb'd vs. Fuel injected is diff and it has a blower... but it is an internally stock 346ci motor.

if that doesent work here is the link
http://community.webshots.com/s/imag...0vxSrPv_ph.jpg

IMpressive as hell!! That is my buddies 30th Anniversary T/A.

[Tom]

Originally posted by swervin ervin
You will never make 450 hp at 4 to 5 grand in a 350. I don't care what anyone says.

Mike,

Anything is possable with money. You know this as well as I do. I didn't post to get in a pissing contest over who's motor makes what power with you, just trying to discuse what he can do with this upcoming motor. I bring my motor into play because thats what I have hands on experience with.

I know 450hp is a ton of power, from anything. Its very hard to do with only 350cid of displacment. But it can be done IMO by 6000rpm, which a cast crank, stock rodded, ARP bolted shortblock can take. 4000fps is the standerd for v8's at which point stock bottem ends start coming apart. According to grumpyvette over on chevytalk that means a stock 350 will take 6500rpm shifts.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ocbaud

recommend me a set of decent hypertec.... pistons for a decent price.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...59&prmenbr=361

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...42&prmenbr=361

Also check out sterlings pistons on summitracing.com, part #STL-H345NP30, those are only $9.somthing a piece.

[ocbaud]

i'll give him a call later and see what kinda pistions he can get me, and for what price.