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#1 |
67-72 parts collector,…
![]() Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mid-MO
Posts: 22,699
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Re: Project: Recycle
What are you degree are you looking for at the pinion?
4-5 degrees up?
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 Last edited by lolife99; 01-15-2011 at 11:28 PM. |
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#2 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Quote:
If I didn't already have the ECE set-up, I would have used PB's x-member. But, I knew going into it that I might need to modify things so it didn't make sense to spend the extra $$......
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#3 |
HOW long until spring??
![]() Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Star Idaho
Posts: 1,413
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Re: Project: Recycle
Where are you getting your shims??? Maybe I better be checking the angles of my set up while I have my new rear axle still kinda loosely installed
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69 chevelle convertible 71-C-10 short-wide and low ![]() 64 C-10 custom shortbox "Bubba"s Recycling project" |
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#4 |
SSN 706
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pocatello Idaho
Posts: 3,821
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Re: Project: Recycle
Summit sells them. They ship fast
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#5 |
67-72 parts collector,…
![]() Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mid-MO
Posts: 22,699
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Re: Project: Recycle
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 1,104
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Re: Project: Recycle
I just got finished RE-reading your build process/progress .... I'm still impressed with the "plan" that you've been staying to.
I can not wait to see all the parts joined up. Ratty 46 |
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Thank you sir!
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Alright, we got a couple more hours tonight....
I readily admit, my past projects have been drop & go w/o verifying the driveline angles. They were all mainly 1:1 final drive ratios so vibration wasn't an issue. I never had any issues to be honest & I've lowered almost every vehicle I've owned (GM trucks, ElCamino's, Malibus, Camaros, & 1 x-DPS Mustang). This time I'm trying to improve. I'm also running a 700r4 & understand the driveline angles become that much more critical for vibration free operation. So, I've been digging for info on driveline set-ups. What's correct, what's possible, 1pc, 2pc w/carrier, single u-joint, dbl CV joint, etc, etc..... From what I understand, the angles @ each end of a 1pc d.shaft set-up should equal each other. I understand this as 3.0° @ the trans suggests I need 3.0° @ the rear end. Anyone want to confirm/correct this? My reading also suggests these amounts/degrees @ each end of the shaft are to help cancel out the ocillation that occurs as the joint spins (speeding up & slowing down the shaft as it turns). By keeping the amounts similar, they help cancel each other out. Zero is not good either as the needle bearings won't lubricate/wear properly.... minimal (1-2°) difference is desired. Again, anyone that knows this stuff want to confirm/correct this? If these statements are correct, it shouldn't matter whether the pinion is up or down, as long as the degree amount is similar.... Right?? Hoping this is correct, I played around w/the heights until I could yield similar numbers (@ ride height). By slightly raising the trans tailshaft, I was able to achieve 4.2° @ the output shaft. We removed the T/A shims to see what the OE settings would be & had 2.2° @ the d.shaft (sloped up from the trans to the pinion) & I was now 2.0° down @ the pinion. I then swapped in some 2.5° shims & the new numbers were 4.2° @ the trans output, 1.6° @ driveshaft (again, uphill), & 4.5° down @ the pinion. The 4.5° @ the pinion is on the edge of acceptability from what I've read for a 'street vehicle'; the downside being increased wear on the u-joints. The plus side seems to be as the torque is transferred to the housing, I should remain within my 2° window. This I can live with. This also reduces the amount the hoop must be raised by .500". Allright experts..... chime in ![]()
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 01-19-2011 at 12:18 AM. |
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the netherlands europe
Posts: 4,335
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Re: Project: Recycle
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/ do a search around here , these guys calculate suspensions using cadcam , there prolly able to tell you more about solutions than any of us here
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i got a job again and having fun at it too idea's for the trucks and the order of things to do are taking shape and get closer to being realized , a few more months and i be able to start building for real i complete 2 of the trucks intoo running fashion one custom and one basicly stock the thirth will be sacrificed for parts |
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#10 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Here's some feedback I received on Lateral-g:
Quote:
I did some additional reading of that GM 'tech-spec' @ lunch & it stated: To calculate the working angle of each intersection, subtract the smaller number from the larger to obtain the working angle. So my set-up would yield 2.6° WA @ the trans & 2.9° WA @ the pinion. These are within the .5° range of each other to be optimum. It would seem I can leave things as is, or use a dbl CV style joint @ the trans & remove the pinion shim to put me closer to @ 2° down. I think....
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 01-19-2011 at 06:39 PM. |
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the netherlands europe
Posts: 4,335
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Re: Project: Recycle
im getting a headacke.........i think
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i got a job again and having fun at it too idea's for the trucks and the order of things to do are taking shape and get closer to being realized , a few more months and i be able to start building for real i complete 2 of the trucks intoo running fashion one custom and one basicly stock the thirth will be sacrificed for parts |
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#12 |
I'm just glad to be here!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 4,788
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Scoti
What you wrote above about your angles is correct and what you found about working angles needing to be 1 degree is also correct from what I learned at the driveline shop and from my research. if you imagine that your trans tail shaft yoke and your pinion yoke are level with each other (looking at the truck from the side, they are the same height from the ground), that would make your drive shaft at 0 degrees. The trans shaft should point down toward the rear and be at 1 degree from level. The pinion should point up toward the front and should be at 1 degree from level. THis puts the WA's at 1 degree for the ideal set up. Since your trans and rear end are at different heights, you drive shaft is now at an angle, so your numbers should be fine. Your could mess with trying to raise or lower your trans mount to get your working angle closer to 1 degree and rotate your rear end housing to get that one closer too, but that might be a lot of trial and error to get correct. I have always used the equal and opposite as a general rule and have not had issues. I just set the trans output shaft and the pinion shaft parrallel to each other and that has worked for me.
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Karl ![]() 1965 Chevy Stepside(Grandpa's Old Blue) and (July 2015 Shop Build!)(2020, the Saga Continues) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=372424 The LST Challenge: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post7812257 Korbin's 1st Square: "Sunburn" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=418618 1985 GMC Sierra: "White Trash", Korbin's 2nd now... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632305 Henry - 1984 Chevrolet, Owen's 1st Square |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 2,105
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Re: Project: Recycle
This is great information concerning the driveline angles. I might have just found the cause of my slight vibration at about 70 mph...I will measure my angles and see. Thanks.
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Keith SOLD - 1963 C10 Short Fleet 350/700R4 4/6 drop 1967 GMC Super Custom - Short Fleet COPO concept w/427 BBC T-400 w/Doug Nash overdrive 4/6 Drop, Buddy Buckets, etc... Frame Off (In Progress) I call it "Vulgar Display of Power" 1980 Silverado Original paint 49k Original miles 4/6 drop Check out my build thread here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post6209941 Last edited by darkhorse970; 01-20-2011 at 07:07 AM. |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Well, it seems running a 1pc shaft upward (from the trans to the pinion) is a no-go. Problems w/shuddering/vibrations upon take-off & hard acceleration.
I have to either raise the trans output shaft or go multi-shaft w/CV joints. I'm waiting on a quote now....
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 01-20-2011 at 10:38 PM. |
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#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
I've been talking (texting
![]() It seems my 2nd choice of 1pc shaft w/a CV joint @ the trans & a level pinion will work. I was waiting to get some feedback from the driveshaft rep but Nathan beat him to the punch. I had already ordered the 2° shims earlier today just in case this scenario was 'do-able'.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Well, the driveshaft joint isn't liking the 1pc shaft, CV joint, incline slope to the pinion set-up & feels it's a compromise. They feel the better alternative is raising the tailshaft so I'm @ 3° & dropping the pinion to the point of the d.shaft being level. I didn't get much time this weekend so I'll play w/the heights/angles some more this week.
The d.shaft builders feel the CV joints aren't a long term 'quality' alternative but more of a band-aid. I'm not a band-aid kind of car guy so I'll get more info/input from Nathan & them to work toward a solution. I should have more shims in Mon/Tues for pinion adjustments. While messing around w/the driveline angles on Sat, I also finished painting the rear HD drums.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 01-23-2011 at 11:23 PM. |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
I got a few hours today & played around w/the angles..... again. What I wound up w/was 2.5° down @ the drivetrain/trans output shaft, .8° down @ the d.shaft, & 2.4° down @ the pinion. I feel this is going to be my best compromise.
The driveshaft places want 3° down @ the trans, level or <1° down @ the d.shaft, & 3° up on the pinion. That 3° up @ the pinion would require me to raise the trans/drivetrain a substantial amount within the chassis so that the trans output is higher than the pinion in order to achieve their 'targets'. I don't wish to raise the drivetrain any higher than it is & I certainly don't want to build an entire new floor. I'm going to try the final angles I ended up w/today. If there are vibrations, I can do the dbl cardan/CV joint up front & raise the pinion close to level (<.5°) per PB's recommendation. Also during all this measuring, I realized my ride height was a little lower than what I originally thought it was. I've been saying it was 5.5" @ the front cab mounts & 6.25" @ the rears. I'm actually 1" lower @ each w/the lower a-arm bolt C/L @ 6" off the ground ![]() I went ahead & made some pieces to raise the ECE x-member hoop & got the materials to make the trans mount spacer. I'll get this stuff fabbed & hopefully welded up next week after work.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 01-29-2011 at 11:34 PM. |
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#18 |
VA72C10
![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 25,269
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Re: Project: Recycle
Progress? are we talking about progress?
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Looking for a 67-72 swb or blazer project in or around VA. ![]() |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
I took multiple pics when documenting/adjusting all the angles. But the pics just don't show well. You can't read the DAF display because of the pic & I doubt you could tell a difference of the rear housing with & w/o shims.
It's been a tedious process to say the least....
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 02-12-2011 at 02:10 AM. |
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Ok, pics & info for the hounds. I got the trans spacer finished today. Painted it & the shims I'm using to dial in the front working angle for the drive-line....
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
Here's an 'exploded view' of the shims, spacer, & poly trans mount w/hardware plus everything installed....
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 02-12-2011 at 11:18 PM. |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,980
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Re: Project: Recycle
While in between coats & waiting for paint to dry, I prepped all the truck-arm x-member pieces (prep = stripped to bare metal). I had already cut & trial fit everything for raising the d.shaft hoop. I got everything welded up & then did post welding 'clean-up'....
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#23 |
VA72C10
![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 25,269
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Re: Project: Recycle
Nice!!!! Thanks for the pics. Us hounds appreciate it
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Looking for a 67-72 swb or blazer project in or around VA. ![]() |
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#24 |
67-72 parts collector,…
![]() Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mid-MO
Posts: 22,699
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Re: Project: Recycle
I'm still trying to get my head around all these angles.
Thanks for posting pics also.
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#25 |
67-72 parts collector,…
![]() Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mid-MO
Posts: 22,699
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Re: Project: Recycle
Scot,... assuming the ECE trans crossmember positions the transmission in the stock location,... how tall is your combination of spacers at the tail shaft?
I'm also keeping in mind that the Dropmember raises the engine one(?) inch higher than stock. I guess I'm trying to figure out how much you are changing the engine/trans installed angle compared to a stock truck. Seems like the tailshaft is much higher.
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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