![]() |
Register or Log In To remove these advertisements. |
|
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#51 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: salem oregon
Posts: 414
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Here is an opinion that may not be appreciated, but all things being equal starting with a bent pushrod which in my expierence has always been due to the pushrod being subject to excessive pressure. meaning rocker arm to tight/ incorrect adjustment. seen this many times. this would also explain a radical difference in wear on four lobes. with the same run time and equal lube and pressure the differences between lobes should be less than extreme. I would check the visible thread count above the nut on the rocker stud and disasemble the lifters or at least check spring back with a screwdriver or something similar. my next point is the vast majority of these old rigs [meaning millions] are running off the shelf motor oil. If it was devastating to flat tappet motors, these trucks would be stacking up in the ditch. My last point is just a personal expierence with a from mexico crate motor. My buddy called me over, he had his motor still in the crate, it was minus intake. You could see holes in the cam lobes. We both recognized it immediatley as we are both professional welders. Weld porosity The cam had been welded and reground. welded very poorly. starting porosity from what I guessed was smaw nirod. True story folks. Take it as you may. Hencho Rebuild. That being said my next motor will be roller, I think it is the way to go now.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#52 |
Still Learning
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 10,108
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Wow Mike. Sorry to hear about your engine. I must have missed it on your thread. I'm not a gear head by any stretch but I appreciate this info. I had no Idea that you couldn't run Synthetic oil in a flat tappet engine. Thanks again.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#53 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 1,316
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
For this reason I am upgrading to roller and all American made components. In my build thread I describe more of the back story and what I found when I took the engine apart. The valve guide was smooth and there was no piston to valve contact. I think what I did was over reved the engine and floated a valve which dammaged it. It did not bend then but I think it weakened it and the long drive up to L.A. took it the rest of the way out. Also having a round cam lobe, the rod could not keep constant presure on the rocker and it probably started to wiggle around in its seat
__________________
I'd rather attempt something great and fail.. than try something ordinary and succeed. Norman Vincent Peale Project: Barn Raising http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414961 Project: 30 Be Low https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=830583 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#54 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: hingham ma
Posts: 1,721
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
todays oil and flat tap cams, = no good..
if the block is machined for a roller cam, USE IT.. |
![]() |
![]() |
#55 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the netherlands europe
Posts: 4,335
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
allso a bend rod could allso be because of water in the cilinder (hydrolock)
__________________
i got a job again and having fun at it too idea's for the trucks and the order of things to do are taking shape and get closer to being realized , a few more months and i be able to start building for real i complete 2 of the trucks intoo running fashion one custom and one basicly stock the thirth will be sacrificed for parts |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#56 | |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: hingham ma
Posts: 1,721
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
the cams are fine the user are not.. they either don't know they need the zinc additive or the "off road only oil" or they are to cheap.. and this is what happens.. before they came out with the truck vortec crate I have installed 10+ flat tap crates ,, most have over 250k and 3 are over 400k.. run the right oil no issues.. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#57 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 165
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Royal Purple is a Synthetic and it's run on flat tappets and recommended for flat tappets so the idea that you can't run Synthetic in a flat tappet is false. If using Royal Purple get the HPS or XPR line and you don't need anything added.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#58 | |
Florida Edition
![]() ![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fruitland Park, FL
Posts: 4,025
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Brad
__________________
70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#59 |
Florida Edition
![]() ![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fruitland Park, FL
Posts: 4,025
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Just a side note to this...no hi-jack intended.
For the pure resto folks on here a roller setup is not an option (as far as I know), those tall valve covers are a dead giveaway. So this oil tech is critical. Thanks
__________________
70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394 |
![]() |
![]() |
#60 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pomona Park, FL
Posts: 151
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Royal Purple or Amsoil and the best filter you can find and all the talk is a moot point, you wont have any issues at all.
__________________
1967 GMC 3/4 ton Fleetside 350 ci Chevy I'd rather do it myself and spend the extra 500 dollars |
![]() |
![]() |
#61 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: East Sooke B.C. Canada
Posts: 543
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
At our shop we use the 20w50 racing oil. The biggest problem with all of this, is that the oils are changing faster than we can keep up. I have tried e mailing oil companies, but seem to get responses from salesmen who, like in any company are not necessaraly up to date. I lost two engines personaly, using oil that was supposed to be good. the latest was run on shell routalla. I got to the point of doing hours of reaserch before every oil change. Being I do all my own work the swap to a retrofit roller cam only cost me parts, about $600.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#62 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: East Sooke B.C. Canada
Posts: 543
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Roller cam has nothing to do with the valve covers,,,roller rockers do. And even though its nice to go full roller, the rockers don't seem to be a problem,,,,at least not now,,,,till they change **** on us next time around.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#63 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: hingham ma
Posts: 1,721
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
|
![]() |
![]() |
#64 | |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 20,005
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Posted via Mobile Device Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
1972 C/10 Cheyenne Super SWB. Restored, loaded, slammed. 1968 C/10 50th Anniversary LWB. Unrestored, stock, daily driver/work truck. RIP ElJay RIP 67ChevyRedneck RIP Grumpy Old Man |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#65 | |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 20,005
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
1972 C/10 Cheyenne Super SWB. Restored, loaded, slammed. 1968 C/10 50th Anniversary LWB. Unrestored, stock, daily driver/work truck. RIP ElJay RIP 67ChevyRedneck RIP Grumpy Old Man |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#66 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: hingham ma
Posts: 1,721
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
haha, now take the 40 y/o wiped out springs off the engine and install good ones.. my old rig floated valves at 3200rpm with the old springs, and that the only reason they are skating by
|
![]() |
![]() |
#67 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 1,316
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
I really think this was a perfect storm of issues that unfortunately culminated 100 miles from home. The guys at the dealership may have mis adjusted the valves when they installed the motor, it might have been the over rev that took its toll, the cam may have been inferior, and the oil may have exacerbated the weakness. At the time I was ignorant that ZDDP content had been reduced over the years and I used the same oil I always have used which led to the failure. Weather all these issues or some of them contributed to the failure, the spirit of this post was to alert the unsuspecting builder to pay attention to the small details. When you get a project truck, go over it completely and get a baseline on everything. Don't just take for granted that the engine appears to be fine. Look at the products that you put into the engine (gas, oil, antifreeze, etc..). with the EPA and the move toward cleaner energy, our older engines were not designed for the new generation of tech and attention to the detail is a must. This is why in the O.P. alluded to the fact that all motor oil is not created equal.
I like the fact that this thread has sen a lot of healthy discussion and did not just die after a couple of replies. There have been many who are now going to pay more attention than I did and hopefully save a bunch of headaches.
__________________
I'd rather attempt something great and fail.. than try something ordinary and succeed. Norman Vincent Peale Project: Barn Raising http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414961 Project: 30 Be Low https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=830583 |
![]() |
![]() |
#68 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Diego Co.
Posts: 1,162
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Thanks for posting/starting this thread.....really sorry to hear about your motor.
Got me thinking about the oil I've been using...Castrol GTX High Milage, it's a blend. Just called Castrol today and found out that oil is NOT recommended for my original/stock '72 c10 350. I figured "high milage"...that's me! Wrong! Castrol Edge Syntec is a full synthetic with a higher zinc/zddp formulation specifically for older vehicles. So is the Valvolene VR1, but it comes as a coventional oil as well. While I've been using the GTX HM for over a year, I think I've only put about 3-400 miles on it....and it was running strong when I last drove it.... But I'm not even going to start the engine again until I change the oil to one better suited for my engine. Be it synthetic or conventional. |
![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pomona Park, FL
Posts: 151
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
It is true. The adpacks in all other oils are almost exactly the same. Just sayin, but keep on arguing, if thats what floats your boat man!
![]()
__________________
1967 GMC 3/4 ton Fleetside 350 ci Chevy I'd rather do it myself and spend the extra 500 dollars |
![]() |
![]() |
#70 |
Champagne Taste on Beer Budget
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: High Ridge, Missouri
Posts: 2,190
|
![]()
Last oil change I added the ZDDP Plus I bougth from Eastwood Company.
http://www.eastwood.com/zddp-plus-oi...ve-3-pack.html
__________________
Coming Soon: Project 1970 Country Truck |
![]() |
![]() |
#71 | |
Florida Edition
![]() ![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fruitland Park, FL
Posts: 4,025
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
"Addition of 16oz to 4.5 quarts motor oil will achieve approximately 5,000 ppm of Zinc" $13.99 Just wanted to let you know that you don't have to get it thru the mail. ![]()
__________________
70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#72 | |
Florida Edition
![]() ![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fruitland Park, FL
Posts: 4,025
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Thanks. This thread opened my eyes wide...all my other motors are full roller...including the Nascar Bush Cup 9:1 358 we have in the race car. I had no idea what ZDDP was. I do now. Thanks again to this forum and to Mike for this post.
__________________
70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#73 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 632
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
The cams in the 260 HP GM crate engines are not welded reground. They are pi$$ poorly cast new ones with porosity. The Mexican Goodwrench/Targetmaster back in the early 1980s had issues of cam failure due to the hone on the lifter bores (I honed more than a few after they killed the cam), the later engines did not have the lifter bore problems.
__________________
Lifes journey is not to arrive at the gate well preserved, it is to slide in sideways all used up and wore out yelling.....God what'a ride! Where patience fails, force prevails Stapp's Ironical Paradox "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." |
![]() |
![]() |
#74 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 1,316
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
According to the guys at Crower, a 25hp gain can be achieved by upgrading to the roller rocker set up because of the reduced friction in the valve trian. I figure that now is the time to up grade so I do not have to worry about what the EPA mandates about ZDDP content.
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
I'd rather attempt something great and fail.. than try something ordinary and succeed. Norman Vincent Peale Project: Barn Raising http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414961 Project: 30 Be Low https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=830583 |
![]() |
![]() |
#75 | |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: hingham ma
Posts: 1,721
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
your amsoil and r/p are no different.. unless you buy the off road only.. racing oil.. the r/p rep. flat out said there oil for street use isn't a good idea with flat tappets.. guess he has no clue |
|
![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|