Cant bleed brakes

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by krazy_texan

well if i was to try and use my little engine vacuum idea i would have a bottle hooked inline just like you do on a hand pump just the engine would be the pump but with the engine doing the work it would save a hand cramp.

I hear that!!

[HEI451]

"I wonder if you are this way in real life to"

No, most times, I just get the disaster handed to me, and I quietly fix it the right way. But, when there are so many different ways to keep messing it up posted here, someone has to keep hammering the right and workable way into the equasion, as this topic has evolved into.

Sick5, there have been so many different ways outlined here, I ask you to post just which one worked in the long run for you. And, if it ISN'T mine, say so. Most of us are here to learn, and if we don't see all the different ways that do, and don't work, we never do learn, we just retain that selective ignorance on the subject we were/are asking about.

I, For 1, am glad its working for you. That is the main thing, it is working.

[Surfdaddy]

I replaced everything on my 61 but kept the single master cylinder. I’m going to convert to power brakes, but just wanted to get it running and driving. It took forever!!! I used a mighty vac and even that I couldn’t get all the air out. It literally took me three weeks to get the brakes to go half way to the floor and then right on the second pump. Another 3 hours of bleeding I had them right. I think my problem was I didn’t bench bleed the master. My VW was just as bad. I thought that you might be able to fill the lines with a bicycle pump full of brake fluid and fill from the wheel cylinders to the master cylinder but I couldn’t figure out a fitting tight enough to connect bleed fitting.

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by HEI451

"I wonder if you are this way in real life to"

No, most times, I just get the disaster handed to me, and I quietly fix it the right way. But, when there are so many different ways to keep messing it up posted here, someone has to keep hammering the right and workable way into the equasion, as this topic has evolved into.

Sick5, there have been so many different ways outlined here, I ask you to post just which one worked in the long run for you. And, if it ISN'T mine, say so. Most of us are here to learn, and if we don't see all the different ways that do, and don't work, we never do learn, we just retain that selective ignorance on the subject we were/are asking about.

I, For 1, am glad its working for you. That is the main thing, it is working.

this is how i did it for the record not recomend by you

i left the MC in the truck still attach to the booster
i had my brother pump the brake till i was hard and hold
i open or cracked open the MC line till air and fluid came out
i had to do it about three maybe four time to each one till it quit pushing air
then i went to each brake " strating with the d/s and bleed
pump till hard hold and crack open the line till no more air came out
done!

[HEI451]

That works well, and is the ONLY other method that works with our early model masters, and most later model ones as well.

Reason, early, and most later model masters DO NOT have residual pressure valves (RPV's).

What is an "RPV"? it is a valve in the master outlet port that keeps fluid in the system past it, at a pound or so pressure. The RPV keeps the caliper and pad from retracting from the disc as the vehicle operates. This keeps the caliper in a position to go to direct disc contact immediately, instead of having to "pump up" the caliper back into the disc, from it being somewhat retracted.

This pound or so pressure retained doesn't hurt anything, nor cause excessive pad wear, just keeps the system at the ready for instant application.

When a master WITH RPV's is bench bled, the output ports are sealed from air retracting back through them, into each pumping chamber, and, the bench bleed goes just fine, no loss of bled fluids, no air back up the holes into the chambers, good to go.

The NON-RPV masters aren't the same, they have a fully open port at the outlet, and, when the port is left open, as is when the bench bleed is done, before the master being re-mounted on the vehicle,,and as it is being mounted, fluid can, and does leak out the ports, and air is allowed to take its place, facilitating the need to RE-BLEED THE MASTER, YET AGAIN.

Bleeding the NON-RPV master in place, on the vehicle, as Sick5 did, and the tilted down back into the reservoir bleed methods are the only two methods that actually work with these masters.

I just power brake'd my 1 ton, used the same master the non power system uses, and took the master off the vehicle to fit and mount the booster, then, revised the "bend" in the feed tube, and refit the master. I then did the 'tilt bleed through the bleed port into the reservoir' method to bleed the master, and it worked, same as it worked when I replaced the old, dead, leaking master with this replacement O'Reilly's one, some months ago. I tilt bled the new one those months ago, worked as it should all this time.

Now, Sick5 needed to fill/bleed his entire system, and if he hadn't got the air out of the master, he'd have NEVER got the system bled the conventional 'open each wheel cylinder bleed port, pump, close, retract the pedal, go again' way. He did well, and I am glad, no matter what method he used, that his brakes are BACK!

Frankly, I am sick and tired of having to defend every post I make, when others disagree with the info within. I've been a professional mechanic for over 43 years, and fix what others make into disasters, EVERY DAY. So, please, do it any way you like, but when I add my opinion, and/or methods, don't frag me for them, I KNOW they work, I use them EVERY DAY. Oddly enough, today's project, fix the brakes on a 2000 Dodge Diesel pickup, has new master/calipers, and, THE BRAINIAC NUCLEAR SCIENTIST MECHANIC DOWN TOWN CAN'T GET THEM BLED. Should take me less than 30 minutes to tilt bleed the master, and bleed the rest of the system. No RPV's on those master's.

[HEI451]

One other point I'd like to make, Sick5 has/had a helper in his bleeding procedure this last time, and that helps immensely. My methods are usually figured out by my NOT having anyone else to help with these procedures, so, I have to devise methods I KNOW work, so I alone can get them done. In doing projects, good helpers are worth their weight in just about anything good, IF you have them available.

[padresag]

Frankly, I am sick and tired of having to defend every post I make, when others disagree with the info within. I've been a professional mechanic for over 43 years, and fix what others make into disasters, EVERY DAY. So, please, do it any way you like, but when I add my opinion, and/or methods, don't frag me for them, I KNOW they work, I use them EVERY DAY. Oddly enough, today's project, fix the brakes on a 2000 Dodge Diesel pickup, has new master/calipers, and, THE BRAINIAC NUCLEAR SCIENTIST MECHANIC DOWN TOWN CAN'T GET THEM BLED. Should take me less than 30 minutes to tilt bleed the master, and bleed the rest of the system. No RPV's on those master's.[/QUOTE]

well you do come on pretty strong; didn't you wear out your welcome over on Jollie's site
Your not going to change these guys. this same question may come up again tomorrow here. they won't research it; they will just ask the question over and over. so don't get your blood pressure up; it is not going to do yourself any good
your opinon doesn't make you God

ron

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by padresag

Frankly, I am sick and tired of having to defend every post I make, when others disagree with the info within. I've been a professional mechanic for over 43 years, and fix what others make into disasters, EVERY DAY. So, please, do it any way you like, but when I add my opinion, and/or methods, don't frag me for them, I KNOW they work, I use them EVERY DAY. Oddly enough, today's project, fix the brakes on a 2000 Dodge Diesel pickup, has new master/calipers, and, THE BRAINIAC NUCLEAR SCIENTIST MECHANIC DOWN TOWN CAN'T GET THEM BLED. Should take me less than 30 minutes to tilt bleed the master, and bleed the rest of the system. No RPV's on those master's.

well you do come on pretty strong; didn't you wear out your welcome over on Jollie's site
Your not going to change these guys. this same question may come up again tomorrow here. they won't research it; they will just ask the question over and over. so don't get your blood pressure up; it is not going to do yourself any good
your opinon doesn't make you God

ron[/QUOTE]



LOL

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by HEI451

That works well, and is the ONLY other method that works with our early model masters, and most later model ones as well.

Reason, early, and most later model masters DO NOT have residual pressure valves (RPV's).

What is an "RPV"? it is a valve in the master outlet port that keeps fluid in the system past it, at a pound or so pressure. The RPV keeps the caliper and pad from retracting from the disc as the vehicle operates. This keeps the caliper in a position to go to direct disc contact immediately, instead of having to "pump up" the caliper back into the disc, from it being somewhat retracted.

This pound or so pressure retained doesn't hurt anything, nor cause excessive pad wear, just keeps the system at the ready for instant application.

When a master WITH RPV's is bench bled, the output ports are sealed from air retracting back through them, into each pumping chamber, and, the bench bleed goes just fine, no loss of bled fluids, no air back up the holes into the chambers, good to go.

The NON-RPV masters aren't the same, they have a fully open port at the outlet, and, when the port is left open, as is when the bench bleed is done, before the master being re-mounted on the vehicle,,and as it is being mounted, fluid can, and does leak out the ports, and air is allowed to take its place, facilitating the need to RE-BLEED THE MASTER, YET AGAIN.

Bleeding the NON-RPV master in place, on the vehicle, as Sick5 did, and the tilted down back into the reservoir bleed methods are the only two methods that actually work with these masters.

I just power brake'd my 1 ton, used the same master the non power system uses, and took the master off the vehicle to fit and mount the booster, then, revised the "bend" in the feed tube, and refit the master. I then did the 'tilt bleed through the bleed port into the reservoir' method to bleed the master, and it worked, same as it worked when I replaced the old, dead, leaking master with this replacement O'Reilly's one, some months ago. I tilt bled the new one those months ago, worked as it should all this time.

Now, Sick5 needed to fill/bleed his entire system, and if he hadn't got the air out of the master, he'd have NEVER got the system bled the conventional 'open each wheel cylinder bleed port, pump, close, retract the pedal, go again' way. He did well, and I am glad, no matter what method he used, that his brakes are BACK!
Frankly, I am sick and tired of having to defend every post I make, when others disagree with the info within. I've been a professional mechanic for over 43 years, and fix what others make into disasters, EVERY DAY. So, please, do it any way you like, but when I add my opinion, and/or methods, don't frag me for them, I KNOW they work, I use them EVERY DAY. Oddly enough, today's project, fix the brakes on a 2000 Dodge Diesel pickup, has new master/calipers, and, THE BRAINIAC NUCLEAR SCIENTIST MECHANIC DOWN TOWN CAN'T GET THEM BLED. Should take me less than 30 minutes to tilt bleed the master, and bleed the rest of the system. No RPV's on those master's.

Thats a good response, and props for you doing all your work without a helper I know that sucks!

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by Sick5

LOL

X2

[HEI451]

NOPE, got attacked by those there that are not open to other people's ways of doing things right, like some here insist on doing. I don't give BS, and I certainly don't take it when flung at me, either.

If Sick5 had been aware of how to tilt bleed the master in place on the vehicle in the first place, he'd have had his brakes done DAYS ago, instead of all this stuff here. That is simple TRUTH and FACT. Isn't his fault, nobody clued him in about tilt bleeding. Some of ypu guys just beat him around like he was a tether ball in this topic.

So, come on now, get with it, pick everything I say apart, just like above. That'll help everybody out a lot.

I get the same bull and spew on ignition systems, and carburetorsbut, I am the one that gets them fixed right, not on then open sites, but by private mails and PM's on those same sites. It is all in whether you want to listen to open truth, or keep on blindly believing the same stuff that hasn't worked to that date. Lots of people have their heads buried in the sand, and just plain are not open to common sense and getting it fixed right, all they want to do is do it the way others say, that don't work, and hasn't worked so far, because they will not listen to correct ways to do things. I fix a lot of buried in the sand problems, EVERY DAY.

I do custom ignition system conversions for a living, now into my 21st year doing so, and worked for 5 years at Holley, race carb tech and race day track service person/adviser. Want to pick that apart too, go head on.

The truck today took less than 15 minutes, tilt bled the master, done, finished. Master took 21 pumps to completely bleed both chambers, and I did it alone. Simple one person fix, that couldn't be done by the brainiac down town in the dealership.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by HEI451

NOPE, got attacked by those there that are not open to other people's ways of doing things right, like some here insist on doing. I don't give BS, and I certainly don't take it when flung at me, either.

If Sick5 had been aware of how to tilt bleed the master in place on the vehicle in the first place, he'd have had his brakes done DAYS ago, instead of all this stuff here. That is simple TRUTH and FACT. Isn't his fault, nobody clued him in about tilt bleeding. Some of ypu guys just beat him around like he was a tether ball in this topic.

So, come on now, get with it, pick everything I say apart, just like above. That'll help everybody out a lot.

I get the same bull and spew on ignition systems, and carburetorsbut, I am the one that gets them fixed right, not on then open sites, but by private mails and PM's on those same sites. It is all in whether you want to listen to open truth, or keep on blindly believing the same stuff that hasn't worked to that date. Lots of people have their heads buried in the sand, and just plain are not open to common sense and getting it fixed right, all they want to do is do it the way others say, that don't work, and hasn't worked so far, because they will not listen to correct ways to do things. I fix a lot of buried in the sand problems, EVERY DAY.

I do custom ignition system conversions for a living, now into my 21st year doing so, and worked for 5 years at Holley, race carb tech and race day track service person/adviser. Want to pick that apart too, go head on.

The truck today took less than 15 minutes, tilt bled the master, done, finished. Master took 21 pumps to completely bleed both chambers, and I did it alone. Simple one person fix, that couldn't be done by the brainiac down town in the dealership.

you just think that you are the greatest thing in the world; that is the only thing that I am talking about
ron

[pdxhall]

Originally Posted by padresag

you just think that you are the greatest thing in the world; that is the only thing that I am talking about
ron

X2 I've heard about enough of this guy ranting on about how great he is and everyone else is an idiot. How do we shut him up. Enough is enough and this guy needs to get over himself.