1970 K20 Restoration

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by farmallboy15

Some pictures of my np205 and my '70.

really nice truck, love the period warn 8274 winch and bumper

[K20rookie]

Proud new daddy here, son was born last month, so naturally my project got put on hold for a while. Ready to get back to work...I want to take the frame down and have it blasted and powder coated, but before I do, I want to make sure I know what my plans are for the axles in case the frame needs anything moved.

Help me understand my options guys. I was going to try to keep the original axles, but it sounds like I would be better off swapping them out with something with disc brakes. From what some of you have said, if I find a dana 44 front it will bolt right in. What about the rear? Is there anything for the rear that would bolt in, or would I have to move some things? Trying to avoid moving any brackets if I can. I've never welded and would probably have to have someone else do it. Give me your thoughts on this and let me know what my options are....thanks.

[cmabolt]

First, congrats! I have one on the way as well (May) but I was lucky and got my truck done first.

I had an Ho52 Rear in my K20 and looked around for a dana 60 out of a GMC from the same year. I found one out of a 71 K20 and it dropped right in with no mods at all. I did add rear disc brakes, but spring perches were perfect as were the shock locations. There may be Dana 60's out of some fords that work as well, but the GMC's had Dana 60's while the Chevy's got Ho52's for some reason.

At least that is what I had read here.

Good luck
Chris

[K20rookie]

Originally Posted by cmabolt

First, congrats! I have one on the way as well (May) but I was lucky and got my truck done first.

I had an Ho52 Rear in my K20 and looked around for a dana 60 out of a GMC from the same year. I found one out of a 71 K20 and it dropped right in with no mods at all. I did add rear disc brakes, but spring perches were perfect as were the shock locations. There may be Dana 60's out of some fords that work as well, but the GMC's had Dana 60's while the Chevy's got Ho52's for some reason.

At least that is what I had read here.

Good luck
Chris

Thanks for the reply Chris and congrats to you as well. I like the idea of no mods on the Dana 60. So bear with me here...I'm learning

What benefit would a Dana 60 have over the ho52?

If I'm understanding it right, I'd still have to add rear disc brakes to a Dana 60, correct? Would that just be a bolt on kit?

Is there any way to use the ho52 and just add disc brakes?

Pros, cons: ho52, Dana 60, corporate 14 bolt?

School me, I'm new to this. Basically I'd like to keep it as simple as possible and add disc brakes. Keeping the original ho52 is something I would prefer, but if parts are hard to find that may not be the best idea. Thanks

[El Dorado Jim]

Congrats on your new son! In post # 50, I said you would be better off getting rid of your Eaton rear end, they are very expensive to work on, brake parts, etc. , like cmabolt said, look around for a dana 60 from a '71-'72 or a corporate 14 bolt from a '71-'72,it will bolt right in and shocks will fit,,,,,front ends are all the same,'71-'76 dana 44 will bolt right in, after '76 they used a 10-bolt corporate front end, they will bolt right in also, just not as good as a dana 44 in my opinion....I am not totally sure if they made a 14 bolt in '71-'72, I used one out of a '74 and had to move the spring perches and shock mounts,this does require welding, which fortunately I can do.....It is definitely worth changing your axles in my opinion,disc brakes are the only way to go, and you don't have to have disc brakes in the rear, dana 60 and corporate 14 bolt axles have drum brakes, they work fine,,,,,

[cmabolt]

Originally Posted by K20rookie

Thanks for the reply Chris and congrats to you as well. I like the idea of no mods on the Dana 60. So bear with me here...I'm learning

What benefit would a Dana 60 have over the ho52?

If I'm understanding it right, I'd still have to add rear disc brakes to a Dana 60, correct? Would that just be a bolt on kit?

Is there any way to use the ho52 and just add disc brakes?

Pros, cons: ho52, Dana 60, corporate 14 bolt?

School me, I'm new to this. Basically I'd like to keep it as simple as possible and add disc brakes. Keeping the original ho52 is something I would prefer, but if parts are hard to find that may not be the best idea. Thanks

The corporate 14 bolt is the strongest of the bunch followed by the Ho52 followed by the dana 60. So why would I SUGGEST THE DANA 60 YOU ASK???, Well the Ho52 is very limited as far as what you can do to it like changing gears because they don't make them anymore. The Dana 60 is still being made today and has a ton of options if you wanted to upgrade the rear end and as far as I know the only axle available that doesn't need any mods to just drop in our trucks. The 14 bolt as mentioned is the obvious choice if you need hard core strength, but you will also need a welder in most cases to change either spring perch or shock mounts. However, they are easy to find, cheap and
strong as all get out. Any of these axles can be converted to disc brakes using kits made by various manufacturers that provide a bracket that mounts to the axle (no welding) new rotors and either truck or cadillac calipers. If ground clearance is an issue for you the Dana 60 has a smaller case than the corporate 14 bolt so that is an advantage as well. So, without a welder (dana60) with a welder (corporate 14 bolt.) BTW, drum brakes work great and no need to change to disc unless you want to. Be aware that the drum brakes since stock will allow you to maintain the stock e-brake. If you switch to disc you will need to make a provision for the emergency brake or go without one. First, You have to order calipers that have e-brake capabilities. You may need to order custom e-brake cables and have brackets made to secure them to the caliper. I have also read about people using driveline brakes or line-locks. If you read through my build you will see my solution. Cheap, but did require welding. Works great!

So that's my 2 cents. Good luck making a decision and have fun with it. Before I got a welder I was in your shoes. I wanted to change the rear without needing to weld anything. The dana 60 was my choice because it dropped right in and allowed me to change my gear ratio from 4:10 to 3:73, i was able to convert to disc and had a lit of ground clearance. I also knew I wasn't going to be wheeling so didn't need the strength of the 14 bolt.

Cheers
Chris

[K20rookie]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

Congrats on your new son! In post # 50, I said you would be better off getting rid of your Eaton rear end, they are very expensive to work on, brake parts, etc. , like cmabolt said, look around for a dana 60 from a '71-'72 or a corporate 14 bolt from a '71-'72,it will bolt right in and shocks will fit,,,,,front ends are all the same,'71-'76 dana 44 will bolt right in, after '76 they used a 10-bolt corporate front end, they will bolt right in also, just not as good as a dana 44 in my opinion....I am not totally sure if they made a 14 bolt in '71-'72, I used one out of a '74 and had to move the spring perches and shock mounts,this does require welding, which fortunately I can do.....It is definitely worth changing your axles in my opinion,disc brakes are the only way to go, and you don't have to have disc brakes in the rear, dana 60 and corporate 14 bolt axles have drum brakes, they work fine,,,,,

Thanks for the clarification Jim. I think I'll try to get my hands on a dana 60 for the rear and dana 44 with disc brakes up front. Trying to keep it as simple as possible since I don't know how to weld. This gives me a good starting point, thanks again.

[K20rookie]

Originally Posted by cmabolt

The corporate 14 bolt is the strongest of the bunch followed by the Ho52 followed by the dana 60. So why would I SUGGEST THE DANA 60 YOU ASK???, Well the Ho52 is very limited as far as what you can do to it like changing gears because they don't make them anymore. The Dana 60 is still being made today and has a ton of options if you wanted to upgrade the rear end and as far as I know the only axle available that doesn't need any mods to just drop in our trucks. The 14 bolt as mentioned is the obvious choice if you need hard core strength, but you will also need a welder in most cases to change either spring perch or shock mounts. However, they are easy to find, cheap and
strong as all get out. Any of these axles can be converted to disc brakes using kits made by various manufacturers that provide a bracket that mounts to the axle (no welding) new rotors and either truck or cadillac calipers. If ground clearance is an issue for you the Dana 60 has a smaller case than the corporate 14 bolt so that is an advantage as well. So, without a welder (dana60) with a welder (corporate 14 bolt.) BTW, drum brakes work great and no need to change to disc unless you want to. Be aware that the drum brakes since stock will allow you to maintain the stock e-brake. If you switch to disc you will need to make a provision for the emergency brake or go without one. First, You have to order calipers that have e-brake capabilities. You may need to order custom e-brake cables and have brackets made to secure them to the caliper. I have also read about people using driveline brakes or line-locks. If you read through my build you will see my solution. Cheap, but did require welding. Works great!

So that's my 2 cents. Good luck making a decision and have fun with it. Before I got a welder I was in your shoes. I wanted to change the rear without needing to weld anything. The dana 60 was my choice because it dropped right in and allowed me to change my gear ratio from 4:10 to 3:73, i was able to convert to disc and had a lit of ground clearance. I also knew I wasn't going to be wheeling so didn't need the strength of the 14 bolt.

Cheers
Chris

Good point on the ebrake modification required if I switch to disc brakes on the rear. Something I hadn't considered. That being said, I'll probably stick with drums in the rear.

[quadzero]

Keep up the great work, I really enjoyed going through this. Engine looks excellent and nice that the dogs are doing their inspections.

[msgross]

Plenty of 14bolt rears from 3/4 trucks around. If you really want the ultimate setup find an Army CUCV K-30 and get some axles. Dana 60 in front and 14bolt in rear. 4.56 gears might be a bit low but plenty of mods online.

[K20rookie]

Originally Posted by msgross

Plenty of 14bolt rears from 3/4 trucks around. If you really want the ultimate setup find an Army CUCV K-30 and get some axles. Dana 60 in front and 14bolt in rear. 4.56 gears might be a bit low but plenty of mods online.

Funny thing, I just got off the phone with a guy that has worked on these trucks a lot, and that's exactly what he recommended. Gonna start looking around for a CUCV now that I know what I want. The plan now is 14 bolt rear, dana 60 front, new 4" springs all around, and either 3.73 or 4.10s.

[msgross]

Originally Posted by K20rookie

Funny thing, I just got off the phone with a guy that has worked on these trucks a lot, and that's exactly what he recommended. Gonna start looking around for a CUCV now that I know what I want. The plan now is 14 bolt rear, dana 60 front, new 4" springs all around, and either 3.73 or 4.10s.

make sure it's a SRW (single rear wheel) setup because the dually setups are cheaper but require mods.

search for M1008

[K20rookie]

Originally Posted by msgross

make sure it's a SRW (single rear wheel) setup because the dually setups are cheaper but require mods.

search for M1008

OK thanks

[K20rookie]

Today was a good day! Dad and I got the frame down to M&M Powder Coating in Huachuca City, AZ for blast and powder this morning.





They're going to fill and re-drill the rear bumper mount holes that were messed up, straighten the frame in the rear, and blast the exhaust manifolds inside and out.





Glad we found this place, got a great feeling from them and found them very professional. Sounds like they will also be able to do my body work and paint when the time comes.

The machine shop finish the heads yesterday as well. They look brand new.



Also ordered new polyurethane transfer case torque mount bushings from energysuspensionparts.com.

Now I just need to find some axles. Seems like the Dana 60 front is going to be hard to come by, and probably a lot more than I need. I think I'll just look for a dana 44 with discs. On the rear, I'm debating still. 14bff would be nice, and I found one, but I don't want to get in over my head with having to move spring perches. Can someone explain in detail what relocating spring perches involves? Do I need to have the front axle, transmission, t-case, and driveline installed to properly set the pinion angle before I relocate the spring perches on the rear? I'll be going from stock to 4" lift springs all around. Just confused on how I would go about this if I wanted to pick up a 14 bolt rear. I'm thinking a Dana 60 rear might be a better fit for my level of experience.

[pbiegs]

After reading your build so far it looks to me like I would stay with your "Stock Axles" for now , The rear H52 you can get disk brake brackets that bolt on from RUFF STUFF. &the front you can find a cheep Dana 44 from71-76 3/4 ton for the outer parts.no since changing axles if you don't have to . Keep at it ! Doing a 69 chev swb 4x4 with 04 6.0 LS / 4l80E trans 205 t case H52 with disks at the present time myself....

[msgross]

spring perches are easy, just a little welding. Duplicate the stock angle or pitch it up a few degrees.

[K20rookie]

Decided on 90% gloss black for the frame

[K20rookie]

Found a matching 14 bolt and dana 44 out of a 1978 3/4 ton. Anyone know if this will work with my 70?

[msgross]

Originally Posted by K20rookie

Found a matching 14 bolt and dana 44 out of a 1978 3/4 ton. Anyone know if this will work with my 70?

Should bolt right in, measure the distance between spring perches. Front is good, I know that.

[72MARIO]

You will have to move a shock mount on the rear 1973 up axel

[El Dorado Jim]

The front will bolt right in, the rear will require moving the shock mounts and spring perches, to move perches, I put the rearend on two stands made for holding pipe, have vee's on the top, I level the perches,then use chain vise grips to hold the housing from moving, then grind the welds off the perches, set the perches where I want them ,level them,then weld them back on, then I grind off the shock mounts and move them where they need to be....then weld them on, I have had to modify one shock mount, the one closest to the pumpkin,so I could weld it on...I wouldn't think a shop would charge a whole bunch to do this for you...definitely worth going to the 14 bolt over your Eaton, will be a better rear end and you will save money in buying brake drums, etc. for it...wish I was closer to you, I would move the perches and shock mounts for you...something I don't think got mentioned to you, is that you will need a brake booster/master cylinder/proportioning valve setup from a 71-72 C20 or K20 get the bracket and braces that brace it to the firewall and the rod from the brake pedal to booster....I could be wrong, your brake booster bracket and setup may work haven't seen your setup(,you could post some pics of your booster and bracket)I may be able to see what you have, but you will need the master cylinder and proportioning valve for sure , the reason I say I am not sure is I went from 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton stuff in my truck and not sure what your existing stuff looks like,I knew I had to change all mine....

[K20rookie]

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

You will have to move a shock mount on the rear 1973 up axel

Ok, so '71-72 I would only have to move spring perches, correct?

[K20rookie]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

The front will bolt right in, the rear will require moving the shock mounts and spring perches, to move perches, I put the rearend on two stands made for holding pipe, have vee's on the top, I level the perches,then use chain vise grips to hold the housing from moving, then grind the welds off the perches, set the perches where I want them ,level them,then weld them back on, then I grind off the shock mounts and move them where they need to be....then weld them on, I have had to modify one shock mount, the one closest to the pumpkin,so I could weld it on...I wouldn't think a shop would charge a whole bunch to do this for you...definitely worth going to the 14 bolt over your Eaton, will be a better rear end and you will save money in buying brake drums, etc. for it...wish I was closer to you, I would move the perches and shock mounts for you...something I don't think got mentioned to you, is that you will need a brake booster/master cylinder/proportioning valve setup from a 71-72 C20 or K20 get the bracket and braces that brace it to the firewall and the rod from the brake pedal to booster....I could be wrong, your brake booster bracket and setup may work haven't seen your setup(,you could post some pics of your booster and bracket)I may be able to see what you have, but you will need the master cylinder and proportioning valve for sure , the reason I say I am not sure is I went from 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton stuff in my truck and not sure what your existing stuff looks like,I knew I had to change all mine....

Thanks for the info. I've been told the best way to relocate spring perches and get the pinion angle correct (because I am adding a 4" leaf spring lift) would be to mount leaf springs/shocks and have the front axle mounted on the frame, and transfer case and driveline installed so I could measure the transfer case and rear pinion angles and get them to match. Then I could relocate perches. Is this correct? Or could I just drop the axle off at a shop and have them do it without the axle on the truck?

[cmabolt]

Now you know why I stuck with a dana 60. It get's out of hand quickly. Good luck on whatever you choose. There's so much info on the net about these axles and swaps it shouldn't be too tough to do no matter what you decide. I relied heavily on pirate 4x4 when setting stuff up. They have some great tech articles on axles and setup for a 4x4. Great resource and a ton of people who set up rears and suspension in the forums.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/
www.pirate4x4.com

Chris

[El Dorado Jim]

you won't have to move anything if you get '71 or '72 axles, if you get '73 or newer, you will have to move perches and shock mounts, you can take the rear axle/housing assembly to a shop and they can move these for you, they would be at the stock angle, you can add angled wedges later to tilt your pumpkin upward if you need to....hope this helps...