In case you're thinking about a 4L80E...

[special-K]

Trucks from the last 15-16 years already have LSs. I have been content with the engines that came in these trucks all my life. They don't suck or are underpowered just because it took 45 years to come up with better technology. LS engines don't suck either. What sucks is all the one-track minded herd followers who have nothing to say but "Put an LS in man" . Issue: I'm having starter problems. Reply: LS engines rock dude. Issue: Where is the best place to get a QuadraJet rebuilt? Reply: Drop an LS in.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by special-k

trucks from the last 15-16 years already have lss. I have been content with the engines that came in these trucks all my life. They don't suck or are underpowered just because it took 45 years to come up with better technology. Ls engines don't suck either. What sucks is all the one-track minded herd followers who have nothing to say but "put an ls in man" . Issue: I'm having starter problems. Reply: Ls engines rock dude. Issue: Where is the best place to get a quadrajet rebuilt? Reply: Drop an ls in.

exactly

[davepl]

The irony is in my Camaro I'm in the process of ripping the big block out and putting an LS motor in. But not my truck. There's more than one way to build a vehicle, and my truck is visually stock. An LS motor could not be hidden. A transmission can.

The only reason I'm changing the transmission is that times have changed, and now we have a bunch of unavoidable freeway driving to get to the next hardware store, whereas in 1972 it was just around the corner. Same for 3-point belts and a few other concessions to modern life. But the 50 year old factory AC blows cold and looks stock.

Would you change this? I wouldn't.

[Grumpy old man]

Retire and drive in the fast lane SLOW! I try to plan all my errands at rush hour , and it's great how everyone waves as they go by . Haha . I have too ask wouldn't it had been prudent to price all these costs from the beginning ?
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[stsalvage]

Originally Posted by davepl

I backed myself into a corner by choosing gears (4.88s) that require overdrive, since I was going to use a 200-4R I had on hand. Had that rebuilt and it lasted 48 miles (but 3 years, so no warranty).

So I decided on a 4L80E, basically the original TH400 but with overdrive.

Of course you need a computer to run that.

$650 KA-Ching.

But the computer doesn't work without a throttle position sensor.

$250 Ka-Ching.

And your speedo doesn't work without a speedometer control unit.

$500 KA-Ching.

And so it goes. That TH400 is looking pretty good right about now! I sure hope this thing works and drives well. The good news is that the TH400 is not my favorite shifting trans anyway, so maybe the 4L80E with the electronic control and accurate TPS (not a kickdown switch) will be nicer. Hope so!

But I'll be into it for about $2250 on the trans, $1200 for computer stuff, and probably a couple of thousand to install it, since I don't have a trans jack and these are too heavy to bounce around on a floor jack (I've bench-pressed powerglides into place, but these are heavy!).

- Dave

Hay Dave have you ever hear of Gear Vender and 700R4 or 4l80E dose not matter you want a cool ride and you painted your self in a corner I did it to a 455 gear with a th 400 and a gear vender Man now i have a 6 speed you use a over drive with a gear vender 8 speed

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Retire and drive in the fast lane SLOW!

You're probably joking, but it's against the law, and I'm a law-abiding man.

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

I have too ask wouldn't it had been prudent to price all these costs from the beginning ?

The costs I listed in the beginning are the ones I anticipated. I forgot the SCU in my calculations because I thought all 4L80Es had the tailshaft with the speedo housing, but they don't. That tailshaft costs more than the computer! And the computer box is adjustable for gearing, so I went that way.

If I was a big check writer, I would have just ordered the TCI 6-speed auto with all the supporting pieces and been done with it, and it'd be beautiful, but I didn't want to invest $9,000 in a transmission for a pickup.

[Heavymetl]

1) Don't ever judge an LS by driving a stock truck. That's like saying all SBCs perform like a stock 307. A tuned LS with headers performs nothing like a stock engine.

2) LS swaps are great, but not for everyone. There is complexity involved and certainly a learning curve.

3) I personally dislike the 700R4/4L60E gear ratios. The 4L80E is just more evenly spaced and doesn't have the big 1-2 shift rpm drop. The 4L80E is a great trans and if you can deal with the electronic situation, a great choice for a street driven vehicle.

[Robznob11]

I know ls swaps are not for everyone. My whole point is that if you are going to throw buckets of money to make an electronic tranny work with old technology to me it makes more sense to spend the same money and upgrade it all. I could care less if it looks stock. I want it to drive and work well. Just the same as we call out the put a ls in everything crowd we could call out the keep it vintage crowd. We probably won't here them say anything about going from 6v to 12v system, generators to alternators, manual to power, points to hei...need I go further. You will have to spend big bucks on old school to match the 6 bolt mains, coated pistons, better than aftermarket sbc heads, fuel injection, etc, and the list goes on. To me it's a no brainer. I like his truck. I was merely pointing out the best bang for the buck is ls. And they are nearly as cheap and plentiful as the once great sbc. And contrary to popular belief they are actually easier to work on. No pulling lifters for a cam swap. No lashing valves, etc. Oh and they are all roller...I love a mean 406 or 383. I really like 496 stroker big blocks. But now that I went ls they make 0 sence to me performance or money wise . Unless I was flipping an old school car or truck to turn a buck. Call me narrow minded ok... I have built both...either way I'll be fine. I do like the op's truck and I think he has done a fine job! I hope it all works out for him!!!

[davepl]

If I want a modern truck, I own a 2015 Silverado, I won't build another!

My old truck stays old (except for number of driven gears) and my new truck stays new.

A decent LS will outperform my 402, but it'll never look line one. There's something about a big block that an LS will never have, even if it's more powerful. Kind of like a 409 has something that latter engines don't, even if its not important. It's the reason why I like a 427 more than a 454.

[46stude]

LOL, why go thru all the trouble retrofitting everything into an old truck, when the modern Chevy trucks run, drive, handle, perform, and do just about everything else better than the old truck?

THAT'S what makes no sense at all to me.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by 46stude

LOL, why go thru all the trouble retrofitting everything into an old truck, when the modern Chevy trucks run, drive, handle, perform, and do just about everything else better than the old truck?

THAT'S what makes no sense at all to me.

Because new trucks are ugly pigs that weigh too much and the trailing arm suspension on our trucks rock....

[46stude]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Because new trucks are ugly pigs that weigh too much and the trailing arm suspension on our trucks rock....

No, they're not.

If the LS motor is in every way superior to the old school motors, why isn't the truck? Too heavy? Not really. Ugly? That's just one opinion.

I think you're arguing in this thread just to argue. I really don't see that anything you've posted in this thread is in any way helpful or necessary to the OP's topic.

[davepl]

Honestly, no post that contains the capital letters LS help me, since I am not and will not install a modern engine in my truck.

Repeat after me:

1) no one can SEE the transmission.
2) everyone can see the engine
3) goto (1)

[57taskforce]

Dave, If it helps any I dig the style of your truck and what your trying to accomplish. I'm not sure why this thread has derailed so much but i read you loud and clear!

[jdw]

Dave, nice truck. Nice project. Nice combo. Maybe you'll be able to get into rebuilding that 2004r when you get board with your other project and recoup a little fun money. Those cores are getting hard to find.
Best wishes.
Now can we kill this thread?

[72_K10_Vegas]

Nope.

To kill a thread like this would deprive me and thousands of others some good laughs.

[Robznob11]

I'm not posting to argue, I'm posting cause it's fun to debate. No one will ever agree. Some like chassis cars some like jacked up straight axle drag cars. Some like to drop their trucks. SSome say they are called trucks for a reason keep stock ride hight. That's the beauty of this forum to bench race, bounce ideas, and share info, sometimes debate. I'm really not a bad guy y'all!

[Thanos]

I have seen many just switch to a TH700R4 the models before the computer controlled th400=4l80e version.

I have seen them behind many carb and TBI engines.


I prefer NV4500+GV myself after reading so much on the set up.

[Thanos]

Originally Posted by 46stude

LOL, why go thru all the trouble retrofitting everything into an old truck, when the modern Chevy trucks run, drive, handle, perform, and do just about everything else better than the old truck?

THAT'S what makes no sense at all to me.

I'm not a fan of plastic however the drive trains are nice.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by davepl

The irony is in my Camaro I'm in the process of ripping the big block out and putting an LS motor in. But not my truck. There's more than one way to build a vehicle, and my truck is visually stock. An LS motor could not be hidden. A transmission can.

The only reason I'm changing the transmission is that times have changed, and now we have a bunch of unavoidable freeway driving to get to the next hardware store, whereas in 1972 it was just around the corner. Same for 3-point belts and a few other concessions to modern life. But the 50 year old factory AC blows cold and looks stock.

Would you change this? I wouldn't.

If you can have all this, AND have a freeway friendly transmission, what's not to like?

EDIT: the picture didn't show up in the quote lol I'll explain...if you could have an awesome truck with the correct motor (and it's a 402! BB) because that's what your into, AND you could have a freeway friendly transmission, what's not to like? That means you just took an awesome truck and kept it old school awesome, and you made it more versatile and usable with a 4 speed overdrive trans.

Debate is fun, but it's a little silly to say that what you like is great, and what other people like doesn't make any sense at all.

I mean if we're being honest, how much sense does it make to dump thousands and thousands of dollars into something we just drive from A to B?? But we do it anyway because it's a passion and we like it, and for some it's therapeutic, others its family heritage, you name it. To each his own.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

If you can have all this, AND have a freeway friendly transmission, what's not to like?

EDIT: the picture didn't show up in the quote lol I'll explain...if you could have an awesome truck with the correct motor (and it's a 402! BB) because that's what your into, AND you could have a freeway friendly transmission, what's not to like? That means you just took an awesome truck and kept it old school awesome, and you made it more versatile and usable with a 4 speed overdrive trans.

Debate is fun, but it's a little silly to say that what you like is great, and what other people like doesn't make any sense at all.

I mean if we're being honest, how much sense does it make to dump thousands and thousands of dollars into something we just drive from A to B?? But we do it anyway because it's a passion and we like it, and for some it's therapeutic, others its family heritage, you name it.

I think you are correct in all accounts.
Yes debate can get silly.
Yes we all dump too much into our projects!
Just for the record I said I like old school engine's and bult and ran many.
My original post was just to say in my opinion and that's all it is.... If I was spending the kind of money he said it would take to put in a new but unnoticeable tranny, I makes more since to me to do a full swap. Again that just how my mind works. Then I get slammed with the label put a LS in anything crowd. I get where he's coming from. He wants it stock, kinda like building a turbo sleeper station wagon. Is his truck cool ? You bet it is probably one of the cleanest I've seen! I hope it all works out! If I offended anyone I'm sorry that was not the intention. Everyone has their own reasons for their choices and opinions. At the end of the day I still consider all the board members my friends!!! Y'all have a good evening!

[special-K]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

I know ls swaps are not for everyone. My whole point is that if you are going to throw buckets of money to make an electronic tranny work with old technology to me it makes more sense to spend the same money and upgrade it all. I could care less if it looks stock. I want it to drive and work well. Just the same as we call out the put a ls in everything crowd we could call out the keep it vintage crowd. We probably won't here them say anything about going from 6v to 12v system, generators to alternators, manual to power, points to hei...need I go further. You will have to spend big bucks on old school to match the 6 bolt mains, coated pistons, better than aftermarket sbc heads, fuel injection, etc, and the list goes on. To me it's a no brainer.

His truck will drive and work very well. In fact, it will be a huge improvement over stock. You don't "have to" spend anything to match anything.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by special-K

His truck will drive and work very well. In fact, it will be a huge improvement over stock. You don't "have to" spend anything to match anything.

[Ruscal]

I'm installing a T56 Magnum 6 speed manual trans behind a stock small block 350 crate motor and am getting the same suggestions regarding swapping in an LS3 while I'm at it. They argue that I will be disappointed with the 350 after driving it with the new trans. Maybe I will, but I want to drive it for a while and see how I like all that shifting. The RPMs will be lower on the freeway, and driving through, and accelerating off corners will be more fun.
Suggestions are just suggestions. We all do what we want.
Installing an LS would be quite an undertaking. I would need to trash:
New radiator
New hoses
New motor mounts
New headers
New 350 crate motor
New aluminum rear gas tank
New front half of exhaust system
New bell housing
New clutch adaptor ring
Then buy all that stuff again along with fuel pump, fuel regulator, fuel filter,
fuel return plumbing, engine drive accessories, etc. The engine bay wouldn't have that classic feel anymore, but it would still be cool. The power and mileage would also increase in a good way. Maybe some day I'll go down that road, but for now I'll love the one I'm with.
Russ

[Coley]

I found myself in both camps on this stuff.
I can appreciate the modern technology in spades....we all love it for the better part in daily drivers....maybe a little tougher sell to convert all aspects of everything old to new...
As for its appearance in the classic vehicles....well it was bound to happen. The LS stuff is a great powertrain option...why wouldn't it be put in these vehicles.
The biggest downside of them is that they are absolute yawners to look at under the hood...although a few people/companies are coming up with some ways to hide or convert them more to a classic appearance...and this helps.
Otherwise at a car show or show'n shine...leave them hoods down.
The other down side is they almost completely eliminate the need for wrenching and modification because they are so reliable and near bullet proof.
Who'd a thunk that would be a downside?.....it is fun to tune and troubleshoot on a nice afternoon.
One other thing is that the LS systems are so increasingly common place and increasingly economical that pretty soon they will be anything but unique in these vehicles...and make no mistake....owning these vehicles is heavily rooted in being unique relative to the crowd, I know it is for me.
That is why whenever I see some other options under the hood like a cadillac or olds engine I get interested....or like that 348 engine that one member has....very cool and here is where true credit for being different, creative and innovative happens.
That said, I definitely like the 4 speed automatic options tho' when coupled to the original sbc/bbc idea....should have done that back in the 60's...way better system.
Like Dave, for me the change out of the original trans is one that I wouldn't mind doing over the next year or two....probably 700R series.
All Good
Coley