My Own Vice Grip Garage - Getting the 250 i6 Running Again

['68OrangeSunshine]

Pertronix insists you use their proprietary Flamethrower coil with their Ignitor modules.
Ignitor - Flamethrower
Ignitor II - Flamethower II
Ignitor III - Flamethrower III

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Pertronix insists you use their proprietary Flamethrower coil with their Ignitor modules.
Ignitor - Flamethrower
Ignitor II - Flamethower II
Ignitor III - Flamethrower III

That's a very good idea, because you want to match coil resistance to the module.

Pertronix sometimes gets a bad rap, but I understand that many module failures are due to using a coil with the wrong resistance.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by 70STOVEBOLT

Correct. If you have a vacuum tuning gauge, you turn the mixture screw out
(CCW) until the vacuum reaches it's highest point. You will have to reset the idle speed screw after this is done. Don't forget, disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the port on the carb while setting the initial timing.

Wow, what a great thread. I have to learn how to do this stuff on my quad.

I could be mistaken, as I remember it vacuum at the highest point with some consideration for how it's running, so it's not stalling or starved for lack of better experience, rather so it's not running like I've never done it but plan to, and will link to page.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by MikeB

That's a very good idea, because you want to match coil resistance to the module.

Pertronix sometimes gets a bad rap, but I understand that many module failures are due to using a coil with the wrong resistance.

Mine worked fine for about 7 years. I had the right coil: Ignitor II/Flamethrower II. Then it would cut out at 3000 RPM -- just when the Ignitor II was supposed to kick in advertized boost. Sent it back to the company 9 years ago, and I'm still waiting...
Lost all respect for Pertronix.

Genuine GM HEI is better and parts are available everywhere.

[Rust_never_sleeps]

This is pretty thorough, starting with dwell and timing(as it should)
You can skip to about 25:00 for the vacuum gauge tuning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPX6n-5ETxo&t=754s

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Mine worked fine for about 7 years. I had the right coil: Ignitor II/Flamethrower II. Then it would cut out at 3000 RPM -- just when the Ignitor II was supposed to kick in advertized boost. Sent it back to the company 9 years ago, and I'm still waiting...
Lost all respect for Pertronix.

Genuine GM HEI is better and parts are available everywhere.

I agree about the GM HEI, although I don't trust the modules in the cheap copies. I may have mentioned above that I have used a few MSD modules before they became part of Holley, which is owned by Sentinel Capital Partners. You know, the private equity company that has raised prices by 2-3 times the rate of inflation during the past 6-8 years.

The MSD module in my 69 truck has to be at least 20 years old. Of course, that means only around 20K miles, if that.

As for Pertronix, a guy I used to work for part time has a muscle car & hot rod shop. He swears by their stuff. Also, a friend of mine just bought two module/coil sets for Ford 302 engines in his two cars. Guess we'll see how they work out.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by MikeB

I agree about the GM HEI, although I don't trust the modules in the cheap copies. I may have mentioned above that I have used a few MSD modules before they became part of Holley, which is owned by Sentinel Capital Partners. You know, the private equity company that has raised prices by 2-3 times the rate of inflation during the past 6-8 years.

The MSD module in my 69 truck has to be at least 20 years old. Of course, that means only around 20K miles, if that.

As for Pertronix, a guy I used to work for part time has a muscle car & hot rod shop. He swears by their stuff. Also, a friend of mine just bought two module/coil sets for Ford 302 engines in his two cars. Guess we'll see how they work out.

I've heard that the original Ignitor was bombproof, with the achilles heel of burning out if you left the key ON [before starting]. Since I've had brake shops do this to my ignition thru period ignorance, it would be a concern.
After the inventor sold out, the company expanded their range to Ignitor II and III. The II having coil boost above 3000 RPM, with no Key ON burn out, and the III being a sort of multi spark discharge.

I once bought an MSD red HEI distributor cap for a tune up. The inside 8 contacts were too big, and it clacked while running. Poor QA has steered me away from that brand.

On my '71 GMC Jimmy K/1500 w/350 V8 and HEI, I had several module failures until I swapped in a 12SI Alternator with internal Voltage Regulator. Spikes from the EVR were killing the modules.

On my '68 C/10 Stepside w/292 L6 and HEI, I had several ''lifetime warranty'' EVRs fail me, until I cannibalized one from my dormant '67 K/10 Suburban.
It was from 9/98, a Borg/Warner regulator from when they were quality built.

Much of the aftermarket replacement parts are placebo quality. They look right and vintage, but they were never meant for real world road duty. Manufacturers do not take our vintage seriously anymore. They are considered toys, garage queens, and towed car show ponies. Add in the Chinese-ium factor and corporate greed and you have disaster.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

I've heard that the original Ignitor was bombproof, with the achilles heel of burning out if you left the key ON [before starting]. Since I've had brake shops do this to my ignition thru period ignorance, it would be a concern.

Kind of like leaving the ignition on when the points are closed. But even then, current was limited by the ballast resistor.

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Much of the aftermarket replacement parts are placebo quality. They look right and vintage, but they were never meant for real world road duty. Manufacturers do not take our vintage seriously anymore. They are considered toys, garage queens, and towed car show ponies. Add in the Chinese-ium factor and corporate greed and you have disaster.

Add to that private equity companies who apparently don't care about reputations or reliability. Or, in the case of Holley's owner, even appearance of some of their Chinesium intake manifold castings & finishing.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Kind of like leaving the ignition on when the points are closed. But even then, current was limited by the ballast resistor.


Add to that private equity companies who apparently don't care about reputations or reliability. Or, in the case of Holley's owner, even appearance of some of their Chinesium intake manifold castings & finishing.

But when it's advised to bypass or remove the Ballast Resistor, or Iconel Resistance line [Or/Wht/Ppl 20] and run a fresh pick up to the Coil Positive terminal off the Ignition/Unfused terminal in the fuse block, then there is no protection.

Corporate Greed is the primary function of private equity.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Corporate Greed is the primary function of private equity.

In all fairness, they do save many of the companies they buy, along with jobs. Go here and click on "Brands". https://www.holley.com/

Then again, their business plan might be to reduce personnel and raise prices (and profits) until customers simply vanish. We've seen literally 50%-100% price increases in Holley products since Covid. Even with inflation in check, they are still jacking up prices. A carb I was looking at earlier in the year cost $440, on sale for $390-something. It's now $500.

Do you know of anyone who is making 50%-100% higher income than 5-6 years ago? For me in retirement it's more like 15%-20%

['68OrangeSunshine]

I'm 75. I can't afford to retire. Friends who did retire, died. No pension from my small local union.
Things are bad all over. I'm lucky most of my '67/'72 treasures, I collected early.
Before we descend further down a rabbit hole and things turn political, I think we should get back on topic about tuning up an L6 with points.
With all due respect.

[Luke87gt]

Gas tank ready to go in

I need to decide whether upgrade to the 3/8” lines now, or just keep the 5/16” as is.

[Luke87gt]

double post *

[Getter-Done]

In my opinion.

I would go with 3/8 fuel line.

[Luke87gt]

From what I understand the i6 and 2bbl 350 had 5/16” (what my truck has)

350 4bbl had the 3/8”… going to this larger line means I’d need to buy some of the 3/8” hardline.

It would save me some work when I eventually go LS swap

[Steeveedee]

If your LS swap includes fuel injection, you'd be wasting your time on fuel lines at this time.

[Luke87gt]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

If your LS swap includes fuel injection, you'd be wasting your time on fuel lines at this time.

That’s right, fuel injection is high pressure, requiring different lines (and a return)?

[Luke87gt]

Also, does anyone have any recommendation on how to test a sending unit good or bad before installation?

[Rust_never_sleeps]

Originally Posted by Luke87gt

Also, does anyone have any recommendation on how to test a sending unit good or bad before installation?

Measure the resistance with a multimeter.
Shoud be 0 Ohms when empty/down and 90 Ohms(or whatever yours is spec'd for) when full/up

[Luke87gt]

Originally Posted by Rust_never_sleeps

Measure the resistance with a multimeter.
Shoud be 0 Ohms when empty/down and 90 Ohms(or whatever yours is spec'd for) when full/up

Perfect, thank you!

[MikeB]

Mine was a 307 2bbl from the factory with a 5/16" line. I've never felt a fuel starvation problem with its current 350 4bbl, or even a 383 that I'd occasionally rev to 5500 RPM. Sustained high RPMs might be a different story. FWIW, my fuel pump to filter to carb is 3/8".

But if things are torn apart and easy to access, I'd go with 3/8" and use a sender with a second nipple in case you ever need a return line for EFI. Is that correct, guys?

[Luke87gt]

Today I had some time with the distributor. I took off the cap, rotated the little 250 engine by hand to the high spot and measured the points gap using my trusty feeler gauges.

0.007” (my understanding is that 0.019” is the spec).

When the points contacts wear, doesn’t the gap open up? Any theories as to why the gap was so small?

Anyway, I took a points file to the contacts and reset the gap to 0.019” but now I’m wondering if I should just replace the points…

I also have a Blue Streak condenser sitting in my tool box.

From what I recall, one full crank rotation is half a rotation of the distributor. So the points would open three times with one rotation of the crank, I think.

Let me know what you guys think.

Luke

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Luke87gt

Today I had some time with the distributor. I took off the cap, rotated the little 250 engine by hand to the high spot and measured the points gap using my trusty feeler gauges.

0.007” (my understanding is that 0.019” is the spec).

When the points contacts wear, doesn’t the gap open up? Any theories as to why the gap was so small?

Luke

A .007" gap could mean they weren't adjusted properly in the first place, or arcing has caused material buildup on the surfaces. New points and condenser and you should be good to go. And make sure you do have a ballast resistor or resistance wire between ignition switch and coil positive terminal.

[Luke87gt]

Thank you for the reply.

Im reading that the points rubbing block wears down over time as the distributor cam rubs against it (that’s why distributor cam lube is recommended). So it would make sense that the gap may get smaller over time.

Interesting that the truck was able to start and drive into my garage off the trailer at that gap (even though it was sputtering, dying, shutting off). Not to mention other ignition parts in terrible shape, like the rotor.

Also, what distributor cam lube do you guys recommend?

[70STOVEBOLT]

Originally Posted by MikeB

That's a very good idea, because you want to match coil resistance to the module.

Pertronix sometimes gets a bad rap, but I understand that many module failures are due to using a coil with the wrong resistance.

I used a Pertronix Ignitor, not sure which series, for years with a stock/stock replacement coil, with no issues, in a 250.