Working Man's Burbon

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

This happened to mine as well, the fix was pretty easy and it's held up several years now. There are a couple metal tabs inside the handle that I bent back over to ensure the button didn't pop in too far, if I recall.

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That will work... sometimes.... Many times the pot metal tabs will break off when you try to re-bend them. There is a thread on here somewhere about repairing them permanently.

Edit: Here it is:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=693760

LockDoc

[HO455]

Thank you crakarjax and LockDoc. Knowledge is always appreciated.

[3757chevy]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

this happened to mine as well, the fix was pretty easy and it's held up several years now. There are a couple metal tabs inside the handle that i bent back over to ensure the button didn't pop in too far, if i recall.

Originally Posted by lockdoc

-
that will work... Sometimes.... Many times the pot metal tabs will break off when you try to re-bend them. There is a thread on here somewhere about repairing them permanently.

Edit: Here it is:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=693760

lockdoc

I have used JB Weld to repair broken tabs. Sorry no pictures

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by 3757chevy

I have used JB Weld to repair broken tabs. Sorry no pictures

No reason that shouldn't work good if you rough the parts up good. That stuff is tough as nails.

LockDoc

[kev2809]

I sealed up a hole in my gas tank with that stuff lol

[HO455]

So many options thanks everyone.

I got a new mirror from NAPA and from the back side construction it looks less likely to vibrate. Lots more stiffening.
And freezing water was the culprit for the old one. Once I had it removed I shook it and discovered it is at least half full of water. $35 versus $13.
The new one and the old one with water inside weigh almost the same. It is a more expensive mirror but if the vibration goes away it will be worth it.
The new mirror has a 5/16 fine thread bolt so I had to drill the mount.

[HO455]

I have a question about wheels on Suburbans. The current wheels are 15x8 with a 3.5 inch backspacing. That width and backspacing isn't available on any of the wheels I am looking at for replacements.
The question is has anyone had problems running 15x8's with a 4 inch backspacing?
The rear tires are 275-60-15 and the fronts are 275-60-15.
The front has 71-72 factory disk brake spindles and is lowered 2 inches and the rear axle is the wider 71-72 5 lug axle.
The rear fenderwells show signs of the tires rubbing occasionally.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[HO455]

Good things happening here. The insurance company stepped up and covered the wheel repairs. It took 3 weeks of back and forth with Wheel Doctor PDX. During that time they jacked the price up an additional $800. I'm not going to go through the whole tale but I will say that the claim adjustor did an over the top job to get things resolved. I'm never going through that again so I'm shopping for new wheels that are not out of production and/or more easily repaired.

I strongly encourage everyone to avoid Wheel Doctor PDX at all cost!

And thanks to LockDoc's information I got my door handle repaired. I tried to bend the tabs just to hold the new plate but every one I tried to bend broke immediately.

The new mirror I got at NAPA works well. With noticeably less vibration than the one on the passenger side. Time to go get a second one.

And as that wasn't enough the upholstery man said my seats would be ready next Friday!

[LockDoc]

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Good deal. Sounds like things are moving along.

Yeah, that pot metal stuff doesn't withstand much bending. I don't even try to re-bend them any more.

LockDoc

[Ol Blue K20]

Great news!

[Average Joe]

Happy to hear you have some good news to report!

Thanks for relating your experience with that wheel shop. I have some 6 lug rally’s I want to get widened. Guess I won’t utilize them.

Can’t wait to see the interior work!

[HO455]

IThanks everyone! I'm excited too but, Friday came and went and now it's "Maybe this Friday". UHGGGGGGG! Oh well it's raining again so I'd be waiting for weather anyway.

[HO455]

Finally the stars aligned and I started the steering box and pump replacement today. I suspected there would be some sketchy things from the PO that would have the be rectified and I wasn't disappointed.
I contacted Lares Corporation about identifying what box and pump were installed in the truck. They were a great help with to me. We exchanging at least dozen emails and at 6 phone calls. The outcome was the WMB has a mid-seventys box and and mid-eightys car pump. The pump likely came from the 85 El Camino 305 that was in the truck when I bought it.
One problem came from using the 80's pump with what looks to be a correct pump mount for a 67-72 meant the hard return line on the pump is angled wrong and caused the return hose to be pushed hard against the mount. The pump I ordered came with the hard line orientated differently hopefully this will allow the hose to be kink free.

The second issue was the adapter used to allow the flared end of the pressure hose to be installed to the o-ring style fitting on the pump. The PO used a brass 37* SAE adapter that they wrapped in Teflon tape and then torqued down to an extreme amount to get it to seal. (Photo #1)
I had hoped to take my pressure side hose down and have new hose crimped to hard lines but, during the struggle to remove the hose from the pump I put a twist in the hard line. DHOO! (Photo #2) Now I will have to try and find a complete new hose.
I'm not sure but the female fitting on the pump end of the hose seems a bit odd. For some reason I'm thinking it usually is a male fitting. Hopefully I can get it sorted out at NAPA tomorrow.
The PO also failed to dimple the frame so the box didn't hit the frame. (Photo #3 & 4) Or maybe they did but not nearly enough, or the small dimple was a result of the pump being torqued down. We'll never know the truth.

[HO455]

I used the heat and beat method to clearance the frame. It came out okay, but if I had had a different hammer it could have turned out nicer. And here I thought 12 hammers in the shop were enough.
To be sure the box no longer hit the frame I sprayed a quick coat of black paint on the frame (Photo #1) and then put a thin layer of anti-sieze on the box (Photo #2). With a couple of studs to locate the box correctly it was easy to see any place the box touched. In the photo the dimple looks like I used slag hammer to beat it into shape. I was using a flashlight to illuminate the frame for the first photo and some how it made every small divot look like a huge crater. It actually is much smoother in real life

[richard2717]

I am still debating modding the frame on my 68 to install power steering or using the fabbed bracket others have used for clearance. I am getting to old for the manual steering.

[HO455]

Howdy Richard,
I thought that 68 frames came dimpled for power steering from the factory. My understanding is 67's came with power assist cylinders and not a true power steering box which 68 and up did. Nonetheless whether or not I am correct about that it wasn't a big job to add the required clearance to the frame.

It took me 15 minues to clean the frame before heating it with a small Rosebud on my torch. Then another 15 minutes to massage it into shape. Add another 10 minutes to paint and spread anti-sieze and check the fit. There was one spot near the top of the frame that needed a bit more massaging to be clear. I then hit it with a 80 grit 1 1/2" Rollock pad to remove the peen marks from the hammer. Once again with the Rollock disk 150 grit this time to remove the 80 grit scuffs and then paint. About 1 3/4 hour in total to do it.

My comments about the wrong hammer had to do with the ball end of the hammer I was using. I would have liked to have a hammer with a face with the same radius of the dimple I wanted to make. The ball on the hammer I used was too small. The other hammers I have that had a close match to the radius were too small and had no weight to assist in the tender massaging of the frame, requiring much more heat to get the dimple I desired. The rest of the collection of hammers had too much B in BFH for the space involved.
Okay that's enough hammer talk.

During the fit up tests I noticed the box hit the corner of core support so I added some clearance there.

[kev2809]

on mine I reused the box that came with the truck, just cleaned it up and repainted it. I had to notch my core support mount out a little too but nothing to the frame...and it's a 67. wonder if someone before me messaged that same area of the frame...because I don't remember anything protruding from.the gear box that attaches to the frame

[richard2717]

The only thing I can figure is my 68 may be an early frame. Apparently Capt Fab has a bracket that can be welded on but I may end up doing what you did. I have the bump outs where the bolts go but the frame is not dimpled for the bump out on the actual box. Not wanting to get in to it at the time I just put the manual box back on when I saw it would not go on. I still have the body off the frame so it is still an easy fix. I have not been able to work on any of it over the last 2 years since I am the only one working at my shop now. Things had piled up 3 deep around it so I could not even tinker. I have spent the last month getting everything straight around the shop so I can get back on it in the next couple of weeks.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by HO455

Howdy Richard,
I thought that 68 frames came dimpled for power steering from the factory. My understanding is 67's came with power assist cylinders and not a true power steering box which 68 and up did. Nonetheless whether or not I am correct about that it wasn't a big job to add the required clearance to the frame.

It took me 15 minues to clean the frame before heating it with a small Rosebud on my torch. Then another 15 minutes to massage it into shape. Add another 10 minutes to paint and spread anti-sieze and check the fit. There was one spot near the top of the frame that needed a bit more massaging to be clear. I then hit it with a 80 grit 1 1/2" Rollock pad to remove the peen marks from the hammer. Once again with the Rollock disk 150 grit this time to remove the 80 grit scuffs and then paint. About 1 3/4 hour in total to do it.

My comments about the wrong hammer had to do with the ball end of the hammer I was using. I would have liked to have a hammer with a face with the same radius of the dimple I wanted to make. The ball on the hammer I used was too small. The other hammers I have that had a close match to the radius were too small and had no weight to assist in the tender massaging of the frame, requiring much more heat to get the dimple I desired. The rest of the collection of hammers had too much B in BFH for the space involved.
Okay that's enough hammer talk.

During the fit up tests I noticed the box hit the corner of core support so I added some clearance there.

Originally Posted by richard2717

The only thing I can figure is my 68 may be an early frame. Apparently Capt Fab has a bracket that can be welded on but I may end up doing what you did. I have the bump outs where the bolts go but the frame is not dimpled for the bump out on the actual box. Not wanting to get in to it at the time I just put the manual box back on when I saw it would not go on. I still have the body off the frame so it is still an easy fix. I have not been able to work on any of it over the last 2 years since I am the only one working at my shop now. Things had piled up 3 deep around it so I could not even tinker. I have spent the last month getting everything straight around the shop so I can get back on it in the next couple of weeks.

My '68 CST C20 had the power assist power steering with no dimple in the frame. I think it was a pretty early manufacture date. The assist steering worked really good and leaked very little. Not the norm for them I don't think.

LockDoc
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[pwdcougar]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

My '68 CST C20 had the power assist power steering with no dimple in the frame. I think it was a pretty early manufacture date. The assist steering worked really good and leaked very little. Not the norm for them I don't think.

LockDoc
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I wonder if that system is similar to the system Ford used on the Mustangs and Cougars. Ford used a control valve that was set on the pitman arm with hoses that ran to a power ram that moved the linkage. Four hoses with two places to leak each! Got a picture of the system by any chance?

[HO455]

Nothing is ever cut and dried. While waiting at NAPA today the counterman was talking someone through how to locate the build date of their vehicle. Whatever the part needed was there were 4 different versions for that model year depending on what month of the year the vehicle was manufactured.

Today was a lot of back and forth with the pump mount and the pump. My new pump was too wide to fit in the mount by about 3/32". I ended up milling the rear tab on the mount to move the pump slightly back to make the pulleys alignment. (Photo #1)

I decided on the pump because of orientation of the return tube. See photo 2 for the differences. The 3rd photo shows how old pump forces the hose to kink against the bracket.

Unfortunately the new pump has an issue too. (Photo #4) The mounting stud hits the hose. Fortunately it was an easy fix I just cut a 1/4" off the stud. I'm really hoping I don't have any warranty issues with the pump.

After test mounting the pump on the truck I found I had to file one the machined pads on the pump in order to get the full range of adjustability the mount was capable of. I forgot to get a photo today but, I still have to pull the pump and mount back off tomorrow to paint them.
Got a new pressure and return hose a NAPA so that will be tomorrow's adventure along with bolting the rest back together.

[HO455]

Originally Posted by pwdcougar

I wonder if that system is similar to the system Ford used on the Mustangs and Cougars. Ford used a control valve that was set on the pitman arm with hoses that ran to a power ram that moved the linkage. Four hoses with two places to leak each! Got a picture of the system by any chance?

Here is a thread on them. With a particularly greasy example shown.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=327334

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by pwdcougar

I wonder if that system is similar to the system Ford used on the Mustangs and Cougars. Ford used a control valve that was set on the pitman arm with hoses that ran to a power ram that moved the linkage. Four hoses with two places to leak each! Got a picture of the system by any chance?

I don't, and I sold the truck a while back.

Originally Posted by HO455

Here is a thread on them. With a particularly greasy example shown.

I wish I had taken a picture of mine. There wasn't any grease build up on it at all.

LockDoc

[HO455]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

I wish I had taken a picture of mine. There wasn't any grease build up on it at all.

LockDoc

I wish I had a dollar for every time I wished I had a picture of something I worked on!

First off the photo I didn't post earlier. The green line approximates the material I removed to get the full range of adjustment.

As expected the pressure hose was a pain. Having read all the posts about how none of the current replacement hoses fit I wasn't disappointed when the hose couldn't be installed on the box. It appears to me that GM had special tubing die made to make the first bend that allowed a very short installed height. The replacement hose sold likely is being manufactured with standard tubing bending dies which don't allow the short installed height required.

I decided to straighten and rebend the new hose I had. If I failed and ruined the tubing my back up plan was to take the new hose and have a local hydraulic hose shop make a new hose out of parts from the old one and the new one.

After about two hours of messing about I had reworked the tubing enough to install it. It's not very pretty but it isn't kinked or twisted which was my real concern. Not having the proper bending die when bending tubing kinking the tube is extremely easy. I'm not an expert tubing bender so I am quite pleased I managed to pull this off.

I ended up using 2 different 3/8 benders, an old Ford wrench and my torch to coax the tubing into a usable piece. I didn't get a photo of the before height of the tube but the red lines approximate the height of tubing as purchased.

Every time I had to let the tubing cool down after heating and bending I would put another coat of paint on the brackets and fasteners. It was a bit chilly so I used my parts warmer.
A 500 watt quartz lamp and a piece of sheet metal.

I ended up being another unexpected problem. Once the steering column was all bolted back together it pushed the steering wheel up off the upper bearing about 3/16". I don't know exactly where the problem is or if it is a case of tolerance stacking. In order to get the steering wheel to drop back down where it needed to be I had to pull the shaft down hard. This means the rubber in the rag joint is no longer in its natural shape but is distorted.
The last photo shows how I had to use a clamp and a pair of Vice Grips to force the lower bearing spring lock to compress enough to overcome the shaft being forced up by the rag joint.

I loosened the rag joint on the box input shaft splines and it is down as far as the clamping bolt will allow. I ran out of daylight and gumption so that is where it rests at this point. I will try loosening the box and see if I can gain any additional clearance. Then likely I will have to try the same with the column mounting bolts maybe between the two I can get things to fit better.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I did get the system filled with fuild, air bled out, and test driven. No leaks at present and it sure is nice to go from the 4 3/4 turn box to this 3 1/2 turn box.
At present I don't know it the increased resistance when turning the steering wheel is from the new box or from the shaft length issue. Unfortunately I'm back to work tomorrow so the answer will be a week down the road.

[crakarjax]

TIL that you can reverse a clamp like that! Only took 40 years...