Keeping them stock

[TNACUSTOM]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I think Redneck 13X hit right on the what and why most guys on here modify their trucks somewhat rather than restore them to showroom stock. They want to get out and drive them and drive them long distances at today's highway speeds and with the need of more modern engines ability to hold up to such speeds and distances.

A lot of those the guys who swap to a mild 350 or later model 250 or 292 six keep the exterior and interior of the truck pretty much all original looking though rather than dechrome or otherwise modify those parts.

I don't have anything against a fully restored to showroom stock truck except that If I had one I probably would never drive it except to a few local shows that were within 100 miles of the house and a two hour drive. Locally while you see the 53 Chevy truck with the 10,000 dollar paint job (documented but not bragged about) with it's fi engine and automatic running up and down the valley and further on a weekly basis you see a number of "restored" trucks riding on trailers to shows 20 miles from home base because the owners don't want to put miles on them, are afraid to get road rash on them or would rather drive the crew cab tow rig with it's leather seats and ac. Some will tell you that their 20K restored truck is too valuable to drive while they tow it with a 50K dualie in a 10 K enclosed trailer.

I don't really car how a guy restores or builds his truck as long as he/she doesn't create an unsafe vehicle to be different or scab it together haphazardly with suspect workmanship due to "not having money to spend on it". It doesn't take a lot of money to do it right if you take your time and hunt down the deals.

You said it right I drove mine in high school it was all stock it sucked it was all over the road and didn't go very fast. Now 30 years later I'm building it into something to drive. I will show pics when I have enough.

[OrrieG]

I agree with 1project. My 64 Chevelle has the stock drum/drum set up and stops fine. We have the same congestion that keeps speeds down and temper up. I think the biggest factor is driving defensively to avoid the significant increase in inattentive driving due to cell phones, Ipad, in vehicle entertainment systems, etc. Just this week we had a power outage downtown that killed all the signals. I watched a gal blow thru, what becomes a default 4 way stop, the intersection without stopping while looking at her cell phone. Luckily the cross traffic was watching for her. Seems like almost every time I drive I encounter someone in too big of a hurry, screaming at their kids or spouse, or jabbering on the cell phone instead of going with the flow.

[yossarian19]

My truck came from my father in law (well, father in law to be. Wedding in 6 weeks), who bought it from the original owner back in '77. He used it as a forestry truck, he did a lot of timber work back then. Remarkable, really - he's about 5'5, skinny as a rail & grew up in Boston. His parents are more or less exactly who you think of when you hear the term "jewish intellectual". Guess he decided to go a different way in life. Anyhow, he used that truck for his daily driver, his ride to school (when he went back to school), his family car & his timber work and later his land survey work. Rebuilt the motor himself - truck was 100% stock when my fiance and I got it from her brother (3rd owner).
I thought about keeping it pretty stock, either rebuilding the I6 again (though I was told it was at max bore already) or putting in a 350, keeping the manual trans, etc. There were some fun stories about the fumes from the in-cab gas tank & the 1957 brake system, so I figured I'd want to upgrade / change out those items at least.
What it came down to for me was this: Carbeurators were gone from the auto industry by the time I was old enough to drive. I never learned to work on them - but I know EFI. Also... In '57, Chevy made the best truck they could with the tech of the time within the constraints of the price they could sell the truck for. It's 2014 and I can take advantage of the last 57 years of Chevrolet's tech, making the truck as good as it can be. New engine, trans, brakes, fuel system outside the cab, etc - and keep my stock height leaf springs, my glasspack exhaust etc.
It's somewhere in between. I'll use it to haul firewood, steel, gravel, whatever - it's a work truck, like it's always been - but if you can build the truck to work "better", why not?

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

I agree with 1project. My 64 Chevelle has the stock drum/drum set up and stops fine. We have the same congestion that keeps speeds down and temper up. I think the biggest factor is driving defensively to avoid the significant increase in inattentive driving due to cell phones, Ipad, in vehicle entertainment systems, etc. Just this week we had a power outage downtown that killed all the signals. I watched a gal blow thru, what becomes a default 4 way stop, the intersection without stopping while looking at her cell phone. Luckily the cross traffic was watching for her. Seems like almost every time I drive I encounter someone in too big of a hurry, screaming at their kids or spouse, or jabbering on the cell phone instead of going with the flow.

WHOO HOOOO, someone gets it!

Understand with my statements that I have studied this subject. We aren't talking "formed an opinion" on it, we aren't talking just talk, I have studied traffic and our movement. Kept logs for months, that sort of thing. Logs on trip time, amount of signals crossed, time stopped at signals, that sort of thing.

In all my studies what I have found over and over and over is that you can't go faster than traffic, period, PERIOD.


So what I have found as a conclusion is you simply, and this is as simple as it gets, you leave more room. That's all there is to it, you leave more room. I did most of these studies while driving a very well handling car, a Ford SHO, four wheel ABS disc brakes, so I wasn't doing it to "fit in" with my Rambler, I started this before I got the Rambler. Which this study simply gave me a darn good reason to get the Rambler, there is NO NEED for all the brakes and late model bs in my world. I know it doesn't fit everyone's world, but MANY of us simply don't need anything more, we just think we do.

I know this because I watch people every day THINK they need those brakes because they are not leaving that room I am talking about, yet they are going the exact same speed I am!

Now, what happens is one day they drive like an idiot and get somewhere a few minutes faster and they THINK it was because they drove like an idiot! But if they kept a log as I have they would know they got there a few minutes faster because it was simply by the odds they would, and if they drove like a gray haired old man in a Rambler they would have got there two minutes faster too! I logged 11-17 minutes driving to work and it didn't matter how I drove! It averaged out virtually the same! It was wild, it really opened my eyes.

I now watch people blow past me going in and out of traffic like fools only to have me next to them as they exit the freeway, or at every stop light. I love driving past them as I pull up next to them, you KNOW they aren't going to forget the Rambler they passed five blocks ago. But they will justify why THEY were somehow "held back" from doing what that would do if that "jerk" wasn't holding them back that is in front of them. Funny this human being stuff huh?

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by yossarian19

My truck came from my father in law (well, father in law to be. Wedding in 6 weeks), who bought it from the original owner back in '77. He used it as a forestry truck, he did a lot of timber work back then. Remarkable, really - he's about 5'5, skinny as a rail & grew up in Boston. His parents are more or less exactly who you think of when you hear the term "jewish intellectual". Guess he decided to go a different way in life. Anyhow, he used that truck for his daily driver, his ride to school (when he went back to school), his family car & his timber work and later his land survey work. Rebuilt the motor himself - truck was 100% stock when my fiance and I got it from her brother (3rd owner).
I thought about keeping it pretty stock, either rebuilding the I6 again (though I was told it was at max bore already) or putting in a 350, keeping the manual trans, etc. There were some fun stories about the fumes from the in-cab gas tank & the 1957 brake system, so I figured I'd want to upgrade / change out those items at least.
What it came down to for me was this: Carbeurators were gone from the auto industry by the time I was old enough to drive. I never learned to work on them - but I know EFI. Also... In '57, Chevy made the best truck they could with the tech of the time within the constraints of the price they could sell the truck for. It's 2014 and I can take advantage of the last 57 years of Chevrolet's tech, making the truck as good as it can be. New engine, trans, brakes, fuel system outside the cab, etc - and keep my stock height leaf springs, my glasspack exhaust etc.
It's somewhere in between. I'll use it to haul firewood, steel, gravel, whatever - it's a work truck, like it's always been - but if you can build the truck to work "better", why not?

Go how different we all are, I am much more comfortable with the carburetor because of my age.

Brian

[imjeff]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

WHOO HOOOO, someone gets it!

Understand with my statements that I have studied this subject. We aren't talking "formed an opinion" on it, we aren't talking just talk, I have studied traffic and our movement. Kept logs for months, that sort of thing. Logs on trip time, amount of signals crossed, time stopped at signals, that sort of thing.

In all my studies what I have found over and over and over is that you can't go faster than traffic, period, PERIOD.


So what I have found as a conclusion is you simply, and this is as simple as it gets, you leave more room. That's all there is to it, you leave more room. I did most of these studies while driving a very well handling car, a Ford SHO, four wheel ABS disc brakes, so I wasn't doing it to "fit in" with my Rambler, I started this before I got the Rambler. Which this study simply gave me a darn good reason to get the Rambler, there is NO NEED for all the brakes and late model bs in my world. I know it doesn't fit everyone's world, but MANY of us simply don't need anything more, we just think we do.

I know this because I watch people every day THINK they need those brakes because they are not leaving that room I am talking about, yet they are going the exact same speed I am!

Now, what happens is one day they drive like an idiot and get somewhere a few minutes faster and they THINK it was because they drove like an idiot! But if they kept a log as I have they would know they got there a few minutes faster because it was simply by the odds they would, and if they drove like a gray haired old man in a Rambler they would have got there two minutes faster too! I logged 11-17 minutes driving to work and it didn't matter how I drove! It averaged out virtually the same! It was wild, it really opened my eyes.

I now watch people blow past me going in and out of traffic like fools only to have me next to them as they exit the freeway, or at every stop light. I love driving past them as I pull up next to them, you KNOW they aren't going to forget the Rambler they passed five blocks ago. But they will justify why THEY were somehow "held back" from doing what that would do if that "jerk" wasn't holding them back that is in front of them. Funny this human being stuff huh?

Brian

This would all work well if you only drove on two lane roads. I have responded to many, many accidents over the years where some knucklehead cut in front of a legally traveling motorist. Before said motorist can slow enough to maintain 20 car lengths, said knucklehead grenades the brakes on their featherweight import with 4 wheel disks and ... You're buying him a new import and paying his whiplash claim. There were actually people running this scam on motorists and trying to get cash. I drive my front disc 72 every day and have had others test every bit of my braking ability. When I was pumping the brakes on my 63 with drums 40 years ago there weren't as many people pulling out in front of me, driving erratically and texting while blowing stop signs. Sadly, today I see these behaviors nearly every day.

Jeff

[mr48chev]

One thing you have to learn driving these old trucks is defensive driving and always knowing what you are going to do and where the escape lane is. I've been in similar situations like Jeff mentioned a number of times but I'll attribute it to the stupidity of the driver of the highly maneuverable box with wheels with 4 wheel disk brakes and tires that grip like cat claws on a sofa. You give yourself a comfortable distance behind the car in front of you to stop or maneuver and that little zippy box thinks it's an opening for it. That happens even more often when I am towing my sailboat with my 71 and the boat and trailer weigh 5500 lbs combined. At least the trailer has good brakes. That is also the prime reason the 48 is getting 4 wheel disk brakes, independent front end and power steering.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by imjeff

This would all work well if you only drove on two lane roads. I have responded to many, many accidents over the years where some knucklehead cut in front of a legally traveling motorist. Before said motorist can slow enough to maintain 20 car lengths, said knucklehead grenades the brakes on their featherweight import with 4 wheel disks and ... You're buying him a new import and paying his whiplash claim. There were actually people running this scam on motorists and trying to get cash. I drive my front disc 72 every day and have had others test every bit of my braking ability. When I was pumping the brakes on my 63 with drums 40 years ago there weren't as many people pulling out in front of me, driving erratically and texting while blowing stop signs. Sadly, today I see these behaviors nearly every day.

Jeff

I respect your point of view but I don't need them, it's that simple. And my little Rambler with well maintained brakes stops damn good actually. I was given my only emergency stop since I have been driving it a year or so ago when someone turned out from behind some cars hiding him in a left hand turn lane to go into the gas station on the corner. I was coming at him in the opposite direction and just passed the intersection when he was in front of me in a split second. I was AMAZED how quick that little Rambler came to a stop!

I am not going to adjust my day to day life every single minute for the extremely small chance that someone is going to pull that stunt in front of me. Cause honestly, if that is there game they are GOING to do it be damned of how good your brakes are. If that is their goal they WILL succeed, it really isn't that hard to do! I fix cars every day, smashed cars every single day. It can give you a slanted view when it's ALL you see. Like every single car on the road gets in an accident? It's not even close, a tiny fraction do, but when it's all I see all day long it would be easy for me to get a slanted view.

Leave lots of room and we will all be a lot better off. Not going to solve every thing that could happen but it makes a big difference.

Brian

[Indian113]

I have 4 wheel disc on my S10 and I still leave room between me and the vehicle in front of me. Problem is sometimes a idiot thinks I did that so they can squeeze in front of me.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by Indian113

I have 4 wheel disc on my S10 and I still leave room between me and the vehicle in front of me. Problem is sometimes a idiot thinks I did that so they can squeeze in front of me.

That's the thing, leave the room, people today are driving by the limits of their four wheel ABS brakes! ONE car length at 60 is COMMON around here. But that is THEIR choice, I personally will be driving right beside these geniuses at the exact same speed with 10 car lengths between me and the car ahead of me.


Yet for some reason, they just don't see this, amazing. Believe me, when this hits you, it's like when you finally see that math equation and understand it where just the day before it was like a foreign language. You can't get how it works out of your mind and you can't believe you didn't understand it, it's right there, it's so simple. LOL Wild

Brian

[70gmcjimmy]

Four wheel drum brakes will lock up all 4 just fine if you keep them in good shape and in the case of my '55 adjust them occasionally. My '70 has the automatic adjusters.

DAC

[Rednek13x]

I have 4 wheel drum brakes and my rig stops almost just as good as my daily. 97 buick.

[imjeff]

Originally Posted by 70gmcjimmy

Four wheel drum brakes will lock up all 4 just fine if you keep them in good shape and in the case of my '55 adjust them occasionally. My '70 has the automatic adjusters.

DAC

Unfortunately locking up your brakes isn't the quickest way to stop. No use beleagering the virtues of drum vs disc...I guess those manufacturers wasted a bunch of time developing brakes. I will have them in my 67 Chevelle before it hits the road because they function better and don't fade with stop and go driving. If you leave 20 car lengths in front of your vehicle and every a-hat on the road goes around you and takes up that space, you aren't going the same speed...that's just math. I watch people do it every day. Sometimes we arrive at the same time, but often they go through the next yellow and "win". I'm not racing, just driving, so I don't really care, but I'm under no illusion that observing the speed limit and safe following distances always puts you there at the same time. To each his own. Having experienced brake fade with drums,I will choose the easily obtainable technology. Dare I say I use a dual master even though a single will do...and FM radio! Lol

[Donaldo]

My first truck was a '47 sedan delivery I got in '61 for $75 from a dairy in Buena Park CA.

Like the rest of us I've been thru a lot of vehicles, would like to have some back -

But....I really like my '51, and I like the modern creature comforts I can put into it as I reconstruct it - I just figure old man Duntov would enjoy the ride :).

Don

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by imjeff

Unfortunately locking up your brakes isn't the quickest way to stop. No use beleagering the virtues of drum vs disc...I guess those manufacturers wasted a bunch of time developing brakes. I will have them in my 67 Chevelle before it hits the road because they function better and don't fade with stop and go driving. If you leave 20 car lengths in front of your vehicle and every a-hat on the road goes around you and takes up that space, you aren't going the same speed...that's just math. I watch people do it every day. Sometimes we arrive at the same time, but often they go through the next yellow and "win". I'm not racing, just driving, so I don't really care, but I'm under no illusion that observing the speed limit and safe following distances always puts you there at the same time. To each his own. Having experienced brake fade with drums,I will choose the easily obtainable technology. Dare I say I use a dual master even though a single will do...and FM radio! Lol

I am sorry but if you leave 20 car lengths and some a-hat goes around you you do NOT loose speed. You know why, because he will be going faster than you and then get back into the other lane to go around some other car and you never even change your speed! I am telling you, I do it every day. Now, let's say you do back off your throttle and "fall back" a bit to maintain your 20 car lengths, you are now AGAIN going the same speed you were, you have lost 100 feet of your 10 mile drive so you are about a second behind where you were, is that second going to affect your life? Honestly, 82 ft a second is what you are traveling at 55 miles an hour.

I know when I use to feel just like you about this subject, then after a while I started seeing clearer and clearer until it all makes sense.

I started years ago when I was a paint rep covering a good part of California. I was on the road about 60k a year and saw it all. So one day I was in a busy Freeway in the south SF bay area (way south) and this guy passed me like a p-38 outta hell (one of my late dad's sayings ) and continued to change lanes, he changed lanes 13 times in a couple of miles. I could still see him when he exited the freeway. As he exited I started counting "one-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-onet thousand, etc" and he was about 10 seconds ahead of me. He did all that crap for 10 seconds!

Try it some time, or look around you after you have been driving like that and you will see the same cars in your rear view mirror just seconds behind.

When the guy goes thru the yellow and "wins", what you don't see is the FACT that he very likely gets stopped at the next light or the one after that. Now, when you get to that light it's green, so he is literally 30 seconds ahead of you! Thirty seconds tops, and he may get stopped at another one you get thru and end up right next to him! I have seen that many times. I had a minivan a while ago blow past me like I was standing still. 10 lights later he pulled off onto a side street and again, I counted, one-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-one thousand and he was just three or four seconds ahead of me!


You are very right you could "loose" something but it is tiny fractions of time that don't mean CRAP. And you are also correct that drums do fade that is for sure. But it's usually a pretty extreme case, I have lived it but it was always while going down a very long windy road off a hill or pulling my camp trailer (that was WILD, they were all but GONE) so yes there are times when it matters. But that was with a car I honestly drove thousands upon thousands of miles and only a few super isolated times did it happen.


Brian

[whammer33024]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Go how different we all are, I am much more comfortable with the carburetor because of my age.

Brian

how can you keep babbling the stuff you keep saying, yet post this at the same time? you need to realize that people are different and times are different.

when it comes time to buy my wife another vehicle to tow our kids around in, that car will come with 4 wheel disc brakes. why? because she's carrying my life with her and i want her vehicle to be as safe as possible. theres a reason manufacturers switched from drum to disc brakes. SAFETY. if it didn't matter, they would still be using drum brakes. you're entitled to your opinion and i respect that, but don't sit there and tell me what i need and what i don't need because you have done all this research in your small geographic area. i promise you the car manufacturers have done a boatload more research on the same topic and have come to the conclusion that disc is better, PERIOD.

we are car guys. we SHOULD respect what other people do and what makes them tick. you don't like what i've done to my vehicle, that's great, keep your mouth shut and keep walking. its what i like and what i wanted to do. your opinion is moot when it comes to my vehicle.

oh, and i own a car parts store in iowa and service several body shops so my opinion isn't uneducated.

have a nice day

[MARTINSR]

Whammer, I have also said over and over, build it as you want, I simply have seen an onslot of these trucks getting "frame swaps" because people think they are easy, they are NOT, because people think they are saving money, they often are NOT, they are misguided and I want to scream from the roof tops to stop and look at what you are doing and get a little educated before you dive into such a HUGE, MONSTROUSLY HUGE project when there are easier ways.

If they want to take it on, cool, do a frame swap. But sooooooo often they are riding a wave of "this is how you build a truck" that has gone out of control.

Not only are there easier ways, but do you even WANT to change it? Have you driven a nice stock truck? How often are you going to drive your truck? What conditions do you have to drive in?

I have seen people over and over the last few years that are just FREAKED OUT to even think of driving an older car like it's impossible! Like you will just be crushed like a bug out on the highway in an older car and it is simply ludicrous!

My family, you darn tootin they are in an airbag, ABS equipped modern mini van. But I am not them, I may want to ride a motorcycle to work, but I don't want my 12 year old daughter on one!

I have said it here over and over and over and over, I DO respect the decisions made by others, but do THEY respect it? When their truck is in a million pieces and they can't progress because they are in over their head?

So why in the world would you want an old truck anyway? A new 2014 is going to be the BEST for you and your family isn't it? All the air bags and crumple zones and all that. You are making a "Balanced" truck, that balance is different for everyone.

I just hope to give people another thought, ALL they see over and over and over is put a frame clip, change the frame, you can't live without bear claw latches, you can't live without a tilt wheel, you can't live without power disc brakes.

Think about it, that is all I am saying.

Brian

[RINC]

I are a Trucker by trade. Drum brakes I aint skeerd of ! Driven in every road condition you can dream up.

My 54 is mostly stock with a larger 261 6cyl a previous owner installed.

Some upgrades have been relocating the gas tank to under the bed. Going with a dual circuit MC. Lowered springs front an rear.

Know you're vehicles limitations an drive according to them.

Modern trucks are boring an put me to sleep. Old stock trucks force you to pay attention

Heck ..... even my work truck is 14 years old

[gale]

A longtime friend from Arizona has visited me in Houston numerous times in a '50 Hudson Hornet and nothing is modern on it.

[MARTINSR]

A 50 Hudson Hornet, yep I think you can drive them fast, they were the terror of NASCAR!



LOL Doc Hudson from CARS. If you haven't watched this movie, it is a GREAT film. I have listened to the sound track going across country a few times on Route 66.



Brian

[Donaldo]

Just the other day a 'car guy' came over to see the progress on my 'project truck', he checked out what I had done so far and as soon as he heard the color I am planning on painting the truck it became a POS - perhaps he should go build his own, but he could probably buy one....

[gale]

He wouldn't like any of my stuff. I really like some of the colors on modern VW Beetles. I used their bright yellow on my old BMW motorcycle. And their Cameo Blau is already bought and going on my '54 Chevy truck.

I've seen a few Beetles with a very dark red finish; looks like it has a lot of black in it. I saw that and thought "I've got to paint something that color" but I only like old stuff.

[Donaldo]

Yeah, what I appreciate is the Vision the builder has worked through and Craftsmanship. I think most of us are build Our trucks for ourselves, hopefully enjoyed by our peers, or not. It's your truck, it's your evolving vision.

[70gmcjimmy]

Originally Posted by imjeff

Unfortunately locking up your brakes isn't the quickest way to stop. No use beleagering the virtues of drum vs disc...I guess those manufacturers wasted a bunch of time developing brakes. I will have them in my 67 Chevelle before it hits the road because they function better and don't fade with stop and go driving. If you leave 20 car lengths in front of your vehicle and every a-hat on the road goes around you and takes up that space, you aren't going the same speed...that's just math. I watch people do it every day. Sometimes we arrive at the same time, but often they go through the next yellow and "win". I'm not racing, just driving, so I don't really care, but I'm under no illusion that observing the speed limit and safe following distances always puts you there at the same time. To each his own. Having experienced brake fade with drums,I will choose the easily obtainable technology. Dare I say I use a dual master even though a single will do...and FM radio! Lol

I guess an explaination of the obvious is needed here! I didn't mean that every time a person stops that slamming on the brakes and sliding to a halt was the way to do it. I just meant they are capable of that action if it is needed. Once the brakes lock up, the tire contact patch on the surface it happens to be on, asphalt, concrete, dirt, grass or whatever doesn't know or care if the means to make that happen came from a drum brake or a disc brake.

I agree on the "asshat" deal, simply leaving space usually means someone is going to shove their way into it. Brake management is the key with brake fade. Mountain driving is even harder on brakes than stop and go city driving. We do plenty of it. Keeping brake usage to a minimum is what keeps them cooler no matter what kind of brakes or the conditions they are going through.

I'm not against modern improvements at all, but my budget is. For your information, my '55 GMC has an FM radio and CD player in it and I even use one of those Ipod transmitters that plugs into the cigarette lighter. I converted it to electric wipers with the rear hatch wiper motor from a 1997 Dodge Caravan. I wasn't about to pay the kind of money they get for the kits. It was much cheaper for us to go with all new drums, shoes, hydraulics, and flex lines than a more modern conversion.

Anyway it's all good! I dig reading about all the alterations you folks do on your trucks. We are OK with driving our old GMCs with less modern technology and have fun doing it.

Having fun with these trucks, no matter what has been done to them is still the point of owning them.

DAC

[dicer]

Originally Posted by Speedbumpauto

I'll defer to the quote passed down to me. "Anyone can restore a vehicle, it takes a real man to cut one up."

To restore a vehicle to factory stock is the most difficult thing there is to do.
There are lots of people that say "its restored" and all original. Honestly I have never ever seen a true restoration of a TF truck. Cutting em up is the easy thing to do. Gosh just look on this site, everyone does it. I bet no one can to a resto even close to the caliber that those graveyard cars guys do. As far as getting the factory blemishes, paint stick marks etc. And geee no one even knows what the bed wood is suppose to look like. So your quote is way off the mark.
"Anyone can mess up a vehicle and cut it up, it takes a real man to do a correct restoration."