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#2001 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2002 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 974
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
Nik
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'59 Apache - 383" SBC/TH-350 '68 GMC - BBC/TH400 |
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#2003 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: shreveport, louisiana
Posts: 28
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Re: Make it handle
Hey Rob, I just wanted to get your advice on my 69 swb pickup. I've read through quite a bit of this thread, but most of it is oriented towards track and autocross.
Is there a setup you recommend for a daily driver? I'm thinking the most demanding scenario my truck is ever going to see are mountain roads. I'm looking for a reasonable drop, 3 and 5, give or take without notching the frame. Less drop is ok if that's the way it needs to be. Thanks for yours and really anyone else's input. My brother and I have been looking at Hotchkis, CPP, QA1 and Performance Online. |
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#2004 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 42
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Re: Make it handle
Wow what a fantastic read! Thanks so much for the wealth of knowledge shared!!
My question regards frame boxing & bracing with a current daily driver (not a bare frame). Is it okay to do the welding on a twin post lift? (wheels drooped) Do we need to be concerned about frame flex from it hanging? Thanks! |
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#2005 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2006 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 42
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Re: Make it handle
Hi Rob,
Can you give us guys without access to a track some real world street tests we can use to track our progress? As we make changes it would be great to have some benchmark tests we can do on the street or in a parking lot to compare the results. I plan to do many of your suggested changes to my ‘69 short bed but want to take your advise and do 1 at a time. And test the results each with each step. Thanks!! Posted via Mobile Device |
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#2007 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 423
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Re: Make it handle
Is there an advantage of having a steel floor in the bed verses a wood floor as far a rigidity of the rear of the truck?
__________________
Matt Garage build http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=6784 My slow but sure truck build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=394924 ![]() My philosophy on tires is the same as cigarettes. "smoke them if you got them" HAPPILY DIVORCED! |
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#2008 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
For my 64 that's under construction, I'm gusseting & triangulating the bed supports w/each other so that the mounting structure/s firm up the bed assembly like a steel floor would w/the wood merely being on top for visual purposes.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2009 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 666
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Re: Make it handle
If someone was considering having a new spindle manufactured, what design improvements should be considered? What would be ideal?
Here is what I'm thinking so far: -Weight optimized -Bolt on sealed bearing hub from a late model Durango -Bolt on steering arm to allow for tuning Ackerman and bumpsteer -Taller for better camber gain -2.5" or 3" built in drop What loads would be reasonable to consider for purposes of FEA? Would there be any foreseen issues with billet aluminum instead of a forging? |
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#2010 | |||||
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
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Just initial thoughts. I'm sure there's more....
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2011 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 666
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
My thinking is that the Durango is a considerably heavier vehicle with a 5x5 bolt pattern by default. Could easily sub in Jeep Wrangler hubs which would have the same BP, be very common place, and have certainly been proven to withstand abuse. While the Vette is good for racing a 3300 lb car, I'm not sure it is the best for a 4,000 lb C10 and it requires custom bolt pattern to be drilled. My thinking on the steering arm is the same for sure. I know that taller upper ball joints were discussed earlier in the threads with good results so I was after a similar after. While it is taller for 60s GM, these spindles are super short compared to a modern truck spindle. The modern ball joint arrangement may be a good option. I see so many new cars where the upper ball joint is basically on top of the tire! I agree on the forging being a better option for long life. It just seems cost prohibitive unless large orders. Wondering out loud if a billet aluminum machined spindle could be designed for sufficient strength and life. I know DSE'S new upright is forged but not sure about Wilwood Pro Spindle. My biggest complaint with aftermarket options currently available is lack of a spindle with bolt on arm for tuning and also lack of "off the shelf" bolt on sealed hub in 5x5 bolt pattern. There has to be a way to incorporate those features and I figured that I may as well improve other geometry at the same time if possible. Last edited by cjohnson6772; 08-22-2021 at 05:10 PM. |
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#2012 | ||||
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
The spindles using the C5/6/7 sealed bearing set-ups recommend only using the top tier Zr1 parts because of short life span on alternative replacement parts. Those suckers are ~$400 a pop; pricy if you're replacing things more frequently. Thus the old stand-by wheel bearings w/their easy serviceability & 'common-folk' friendly purchase price are a value to those that have limited resources. I see value in both. But, w/o having first-hand exposure on the lifespan of unit-bearings I'm @ a disadvantage of how 'worthy' they are in the scheme of things (return on investment). Quote:
67-72 A/F/X/& G body 'short' spindles ~7-7.5" 70-81 F/B-body & 73-87 C10 'tall' spindles ~9" C4 Vette ~11" ATS & Wilwood aftermarket spindle ~9" *I can confirm the 73-87 C10, G-body, & C4 Vette spindle heights as I own them & actually measured for the research when trying to source something better for a g-body. The other numbers were from online look-up & could be suspect/incorrect. Quote:
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I'm 100% w/you on a spindle designed for optimum set-points of the geometry & tuning for the steering. I'm on the fence about the sealed hubs being 'better'. I assumed they were until reading about the alarming failure rate for typical store-bought replacement parts.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2013 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 2,932
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Re: Make it handle
Scoti, you have probably said in the past but what tall ball joint did you use? Did you like that mod? It sounds fairly simple I thought I had looked in the past and didn't find an option for that swap but it has been so long I don't remember.
And to add to this I am running the CPP modular spindles and am almost certain at the time I went with the 71-72 spindles, I don't remember why but did. Thanks, Dave
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Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!" Last edited by Custom 68; 08-23-2021 at 10:47 AM. |
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#2014 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2015 | |
I'm just glad to be here!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 4,788
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
__________________
Karl ![]() 1965 Chevy Stepside(Grandpa's Old Blue) and (July 2015 Shop Build!)(2020, the Saga Continues) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=372424 The LST Challenge: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post7812257 Korbin's 1st Square: "Sunburn" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=418618 1985 GMC Sierra: "White Trash", Korbin's 2nd now... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632305 Henry - 1984 Chevrolet, Owen's 1st Square |
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#2016 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
I recall the 71-72 vs 73-87 spindle differences were the TRE's. Drum brake spindles use different UBJ's/LBJ's vs disc brake spindles. I've always used the 73-87 platform when modding the front suspension so I have no knowledge of the 71-72 model specific parts. I swapped things to whatever the 73-87 spindles required (arms/steering/etc).
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2017 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 2,932
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Re: Make it handle
Thank you guys for the info, I had PM to Scotti as not to completely muddy this great thread. I had stuck with the 1972 spindles so it appears the tall ball joints referred to will work on the 73-87. The older spindles don't seem to have an option for those, that said I may have missed it somewhere but they don't seem to be around.
Thanks, Dave
__________________
Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!" |
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#2018 | ||
I'm just glad to be here!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 4,788
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
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I would think that mounting the UPPER ball joint to the underside of the upper arm will give you a slight increase in ball joint height (it moves the pivot point of the ball about 1/2" to 5/8") vertically referenced to the plane of the arm. I my head, that tells me you would get some benefit similar to a taller ball joint...
__________________
Karl ![]() 1965 Chevy Stepside(Grandpa's Old Blue) and (July 2015 Shop Build!)(2020, the Saga Continues) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=372424 The LST Challenge: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post7812257 Korbin's 1st Square: "Sunburn" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=418618 1985 GMC Sierra: "White Trash", Korbin's 2nd now... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632305 Henry - 1984 Chevrolet, Owen's 1st Square |
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#2019 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
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__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2020 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 2,932
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
Thanks for the great suggestion. Dave
__________________
Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!" |
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#2021 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
I made a trim/backing plate for the top side of the a-arm as well.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2022 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: portland oregon
Posts: 184
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Re: Make it handle
Ok I have a question, my truck has a 5.5/7 ride hight with springs and spindles in ft and leafs and a flip kit in the rr. I am running .5degs camber and 4.5 degs caster with cpp upper control arms and leafs in the rear. I have 255/35 20s in ft and 275/40 20s in the rear. It will go around 50 mph corners at 70 with no roll and no slip. Am I doing somthing wrong here?
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#2023 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#2024 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Coquitlam, British Columbia,Canada
Posts: 135
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Re: Make it handle
I have a 1964 GMC with Porter Built Air ride suspension front and rear.
I recently swapped out the generic mustang 2 front power steeering rack for a Detroit Speed rack. I was having some steering issues which I thought where related to the rack, it turns out that it must be power steering pump as the problems still persists after changing racks. The issue I am having is that the steering is very knotchy, easy, hard, easy, hard as you turn the wheel left to right or vice versa. I did take out the washers I put in to reduce pressure for the Mustang rack that runs at 1100 psi to 1300 psi that the Detroit Speed rack requires. I think it is the Saginaw pump which I am unsure of it’s condition. The question I have is do I fix or replace the Saginaw pump or do I take this opportunity to switch to a type 2 pump. Your thoughts please Thanks Rob Fisher |
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#2025 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,967
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Re: Make it handle
I would switch to the Type=2 set-up if making changes.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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