Lincoln Locker.....?

[nonstopproject]

well, the spider gears in my rear dif are pretty far gone and aren't gonna take much more. so instead of fixing it correctly i've been thinking about making a white trash spool out of it (lincoln locker) by this i mean welding the crap out of the spider gears. have any of you done this and is their a good welding rod for it. i know this is going to make it misbehave on pavement but that would just make it cooler. and worst case i'd still just have to replace the carrier with a real locker or posi. so now is your chance to talk me out of it or talk me into it.
thanks

[cableguy0]

bad idea it will explode blow the spider gears out in a hurry most times its well under a month and people find out the hard way why you dont do that. if you wanna take the chance on getting stranded somewhere go for it but your kinda playing with fire there

[cdowns]

yep, and when they blow they usually take out the rest of the case with it so you end up needing a whole new rear

[crazy longhorn]

Dont do it! if you dont break an axle, the 1st time tou hit a little rain ....you will think you were on a merry go round ! how fast does that chev go? well it does doughnuts really fast the only really fast doughnuts I have seen are the cops scarfing them at the doughnut shop crazyL

[ryan68]

Do, it, you'd have to replace the whole carrier like you said with a new unit. You won't break a shaft, that's BS. Personally, my chunk-o-metal suburban with tips the scales at nearly 8,000 with all sorts of weight added has a full detroit in the back(no disengaging) which is basically the same think as welding. I didn't pay for it, so I'm happy. Never broke a shaft and I wheel the hell out of it and it's locked in the front too with another detroit and it rides on 35's on a D44 and 12-bolt. It's all in the way you drive it. I know a guy that welded a 1/2ton newer chevy IFS and has never broke a CV shaft. And this guy does 4.5 rated trails. What happens when they break is when Jethro from Po-dunk NoWhere decides to weld his axle and has no idea what he's doing. Then it breaks. If you know what you're doing, you're fine. I have personally seen many many many vehicles that are lincoln locked front and rear that are just awesome. I also just bought a spool for my 2wd 68. Gotta love the tire spinnage. GET ER DONE!!!

[nonstopproject]

what?! now people are scared of both tires spinning? sounds like fun to me. i've done a little research and four wheel drive guys do it all the time and have great success. and they are putting it through way more stress than i would. i'm going for it. and like is said, worst case, i'll just have to do what i was going to do anyway....replace my rearend. thanks ryan68

[ryan68]

No problem, people keep saying I'm gonna exploded my locked front, and I tell them, yeah, if you drive it like an idiot. And yeah, in a 2wd truck, what the back end with stuff in the bed weight maybe 2,000, just to through a number up, and say it has 30" tires on it. Way better than nearly 4,000 from a suburban with 35's. Let the smoke roll. And you can fishtail easier now.

[crazy longhorn]

scared of both tires spinning....he!! no! broken parts.... thats a different story! i have seen lincoln or Hobart lockers work good off road (dirt track stuff on a budget), or 4 wheeling. They never seem to be too swift on the street. I have driven a jeep with a detroit locker in the rear, & a spicer powerlock in front (clutch posi). The detroit is basically a ratchet, that does disengage 1 wheel around the corners(it has not clutches tho). that Cj5 could be a little "hairy" on the street, but talk with a few guys that ran a spool, or a welded locker in the rain......you best well park that f*&^er, so that you dont hurt somebody dont take all these good guys advice about it, try it for your self......those welded locker are outlawed on the drag strip, & for damn good reason.....they dont want to sweep teeth, hair, eyeballs & busted truck parts off the track......crazyL

[71 Blazer CST man]

A pal at school has a 73+(that era) chev.pickup, SWB, a REAL farm beater. It's fulltime posi in the rear, and the only time he ever sh!t the bed was on his forth or fifth fishtail in the school parking lot, full of cars, in the rain. He swung it out a bit to wide and instead of taking out and AC unit, smashed the cage surrounding it(for just that reason) oh and the right side of his bed....yep, pretty cool. Shoulda seen the look on his face, white as a ghost - Hahahaha. Besides that though he never had any problems, and at that point he was asking for it. So, the point being, the only time he ever messed up with the settup he was runnin was when he started gettin a bit to carried away with fishtails infront 1/2 the highschool. I think it's a little mad what some people say about not driving in the rain, while you'll eat it a heck of alot quicker ,they make it sound impossible. If you take it easy - it's do-able to say the least. Its not like every one who ever had a posi vehichle ,muscle cars, trucks, etc, left it in the garage any time it rained/snowed?!?!?!?

[nonstopproject]

any recomendations on what type of welding rod to use? i've read at a couple of places to use stainless steel rod. any ideas?

[LONGHAIR]

Don't do it man, it is an accident looking for a place to happen. It's outlawed in every racing sanctioning body that I know of............for a reason. You can buy a "mini spool" for most applications for a decent price, if locked is what you really want. Welding in there on already heat treated parts is a very bad idea. It puts a lot more stress on the spiders/axles than they were designed for ........and then overheat them? nope, don't do it.

Welded on the front? that's even worse. You may get away with that on a mud bogger or puller that never sees the street or even trail riding/wheeling.
You WILL break the short side axle (at the joint usually) when turning. Haven't you ever sen the "Pro" truck pullers when they pull up to the line? They have a helper run over and lock in one hub right before they take off. They do all of the driving around the track with one hub unlocked, for two reasons: It drives like crap locked up and the short-side axle is taking all of the abuse.

I ran a Tru-Trac in the front of my 74,454,4spd one ton truck. I did some ameteur pulling with 35" ground hogs and did my street driving and off-roading with 40" Mudders. I broke an axle even with that.

[walker]

There seems to be some confusion about the difference between a locker and a lincoln locker. A locker will let the two wheels spin at a different rate going around corners, a welded rear willl not. Even a detroit locker lets the wheels turn at a different rate going around a corner.
Off roading is a totaly different animal. The wheels turn at a differnt rate due to wheel slippage. You may notice on about every four wheel drive the is a sticker that says to not run in four wheel drive on the pavement. Yes I know that it is due to having no center differential, but it is the same as having no side to side differential. The wheels need to slip in order to maintain zero differential between them. When you have uneased differential something will give, be it tires, gears, d shafts, etc.
If you decide to weld it, just know that you are going to ruin expensive parts in the process. Carriers are not cheap. If you have a three, or four series carrier, you can probobly trade/sell it, as these are highly desireable carriers for a GM 12 bolt. Mini spools are cheap, I wonder if you could build a spool? Never thought about it till now, I'll have to go to the Jegs site and check them out.
As far as welding rod goes, you may just want to use a cheap 7018 rod. I would think a SS or nickle type rod would would better, but I just bought some and as I recall the price for a one pound box(the smallest box available)was $65. For that kind of dough you could get yourself some new parts.
Something else to consider is the preice of your tires. Mine were well over $100 per tire. You will burn up tires with a locked rear substantially faster than with a differential. So when you start figuring that each corner cost you fifty cents, plus the lost fuel economy, you are spending more and more money to not repair your rear end the right way. If you want a posi unit go to the junk yard and get you one. I think the going rate here is $150 for a used rear. I just gave away a good 3.73 rear end here, open diffy though.
Oh well, what ever you decide, and since it appears as though you are in H.S. I am sure you will weld it, good luck. Ah to be 17 again, well at least now my insurance rates are good now. I think I pay for a year what I used to pay per month for insurance.

[ryan68]

Full Detroits(No-spins) will not allow the wheels to disengage around a turn, which is what I have. When I turn, you can see and hear the inside tire overspinning, there is no disengaging there. Now, Detroit soft lockers and detroit EZ-lockers will allow for disengaging. Mini-spools don't disengage, and neither does welded, as well a a no-spin detroit. All 3 will act the same on the street no matter what.

As for front welding, my detroit doesn't like to let the power steering turn, but it will, and I haven't broke anything, and I do 4.0+ rated trails, sand, mud, whatever. These are still even the neck-ed down axle shafts and little 260X u-joints on 35's on a BIG HEAVY SUBURBAN. I have even locked it in and drove around on a pavement just to see what would happen, it was cool.

New carrier $70-80, Mini-spool $130. I know cause I just bought these 2 items in the past few months. Also bought a titanium hardened cross shaft too for the mini-spool, $18.

[LONGHAIR]

That's not entirely so, a No-Spin will disengage if you are coasting in the corner. If you do not let off and give it some slack it will stay locked.

['70_402]

I have never done it on a "street truck" but every off road 4x4 i ever owned had welded spiders......no problems with breakage ever!! i put those things through hell...

[nonstopproject]

i realize that welded spiders aren't allowed on race tracks for a reason. but you also have to realize that a real drag car (truck) is also going to run 600+ hp and drag slicks. and there is no way they would ever run a stock 12 bolt anyway. i'm pushing a wapping 300 ponies and 245/60s. i was already entertaining the idea of buying another rearend anyway. i'm not in hs, i'm just a guy who only drives his truck 4miles to work and likes to have a little fun. but anyway, i appreciate everyones input, for or against. and yes i'm most likely going to do it this weekend
thanks for all your help

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by ryan68

Full Detroits(No-spins) will not allow the wheels to disengage around a turn, which is what I have. When I turn, you can see and hear the inside tire overspinning, there is no disengaging there. Now, Detroit soft lockers and detroit EZ-lockers will allow for disengaging. Mini-spools don't disengage, and neither does welded, as well a a no-spin detroit. All 3 will act the same on the street no matter what.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. There is no such thing as a "full detroit". No-Spin is the commercial name for the detroit locker, which is the name of the product for the aftermarket. Detroit lockers unlock when coasting through corners. I have driven a few. My truck is going to get one. If yours doesnt unlock then it is either installed incorrectly or broken.

If that doesnt make sense, then think about the cost...detroits cost alot more than spools, and according to you they do the same exact thing. Companies are in business to make money...and if Tractech (makers of detroit locker) made a product which was basically a spool but cost a lot more, then they would go out of business.

As to the original comment: don't weld it. Just save the cash and do it properly. You think it would be cool if it misbehaves on the pavement, how cool would it be if it caused you to get into an accident?

[ryan68]

When I said full detroits, I was meaning full case lockers, as in not lunchbox lockers or soft lockers. I am very aware of every traction device out there. I have studied them all, drove most of them and have alot of them. AS for the disengaging, I can idle my truck in a circle and not get any, and not the locker is not broken, or installed wrong, and yes I did it myself. I install all my gears and differential stuff myself. I even took it into a differential shop to have them check it out when I was done, they said everything is right, they even took apart the locker to check it out too. I know 2 other guys with highly modified wheeling truck and theirs is the same way.

Tell us how it goes this weekend, and I think this calls for a burnout pic. Burn um up.

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by ryan68

When I said full detroits, I was meaning full case lockers, as in not lunchbox lockers or soft lockers. I am very aware of every traction device out there. I have studied them all, drove most of them and have alot of them. AS for the disengaging, I can idle my truck in a circle and not get any, and not the locker is not broken, or installed wrong, and yes I did it myself. I install all my gears and differential stuff myself. I even took it into a differential shop to have them check it out when I was done, they said everything is right, they even took apart the locker to check it out too. I know 2 other guys with highly modified wheeling truck and theirs is the same way.

Tell us how it goes this weekend, and I think this calls for a burnout pic. Burn um up.

A detriot locker is a ratchet.....it does/should unlock in the corners, or there are problems. if you are running a spool, or welded spiders,its locked at all times......there are no pcs inside a spool but the axles tho. crazyL

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by ryan68

When I said full detroits, I was meaning full case lockers, as in not lunchbox lockers or soft lockers.

A detroit locker is a full case locker...except for some axles, an example being the 14 bolt, where it does not replace the carrier. A detroit locker also unlocks. FYI, a Detroit Softlocker is a regular detroit locker designed to not engage/disengage as harshly as the original.

[ryan68]

True, but a Detroit EZ Locker is a lunchbox locker and only replaces the spider gears and side gears(side gears in some applications are left in place). That's why I specified full case locker. Lockrights and Powertrax No-Spins are alos lunchbox lockers as well.