305 - 350 decision

[Eyegore]

Well I'm finally at the end of this tired old 305, I need to replace it in my 86. Its so bad that a little girl passed me on her tricycle because theirs no power left in her. Since it is an 86 there is a question about what will work since it is a different block, a transition year. The shop that dropped the 350 in my sons truck said I could upgrade for an extra $700 to a 350 engine. I understand that beside the flex-plate that everything else will drop into place, or least I hope that it will. But my concern is the strict emission standards and my desire to keep it stock. I thought I would throw it out and get your views. This truck is my daily driver, I prefer it over my tahoe, w/ heated seats cd stereo, there's just something about it, its simplicty I guess that I enjoy, but at the same time I wouldn't mind a little more power - that little girl wants to race me for pink slips, I want to beat her!

[Russell]

I'd say go for a 350, if it is running right and most of the emissions systems are still on there, it should pass emissions testing

[60-66 Nut]

If you put an earlier engine('85 back) the flywheel is different, and possibly a few other things like dipstick location. An '86 up 350 should be a bolt-in, even the flex plate.

60-66 Nut

[Destructo]

All your emissions equipment and dizzy, and carb, and all that will bolt right on to an older 350 engine, so emissions is of no concern, just buy a smog legal Performer intake, put your Q-Jet back on it, ESC Dizzy, manifolds, and all the accessories off your old 305 onto the 350 and your good to go.

The only difference will be the intake manifold (actually I think its the same, 86-down were the same bolt pattern I think), flexplate and thats about it, the rest is the same.

Unless you get a motor that is older than 1980 I think the dipstick will be in the same location.

And if anybody can find a reason not to get a 350 in this case, your really digging lol.

[Ric83]

Originally Posted by Eyegore

that little girl wants to race me for pink slips, I want to beat her!

ROFLMAO!! That is too funny.

[Slonaker]

I have an '86 with a 305 as well, so I always read these posts when they come up. In past threads, it was mentioned that a 305 exhaust manifold will not fit a 350. If that is the case (I have no personal experience with this...yet), you might have to go with emission legal headers, or you might be able to get the proper manifolds off a 350 Suburban, C20, etc.

The other issue that always seems to come up is that the cheap GM 350 crate motors always say they are warranted for vehicles up through 1985. if you plan to go with a crate motor, loss of the warranty might be an issue for you.

That all said, I would always go for a 350 over a 305 if I could.

Slonakernaker

[Destructo]

the 305 manifolds will fit a 350, only difference is they run over the spark plugs instead of under, but theres plenty of 350 manifolds with AIR on them that can be had cheap.

[Jonboy]

the warranty on a GM crate engine would only be valid if the truck was originally equipped with a 350. Part of their fine print. I believe it is only 12mo/12,000 miles otherwise.

Anyhow, I would figure $700 extra to be a little steep. My advice would be to go with a GM crate engine and add your stuff to it. Your 305 should have a 1 piece rear seal, and the intake would work as well. 87 was the first year for center bolt valve covers, and that is when they changed the center bolts in the intake as well. The intake can be made to work by reaming the 4 center holes a little bit to allow for the slightly different angle. Honestly, it sounds like someone is just trying to get an extra $700 out of you.

[hotrodhomi]

I swapped a 350 for my 305 last year. I live in California and I still passed smog..that has to say something. '81 swb

[cliffsta]

Yeah, as much as i am satisfied with my original 305, i'd love a 350. Mine is not extremely tired, just in need of a carb mainly, but i know it aint got the giddyup my dad said it had new. The thing that holds my 305 back (1980 truck) is its a 2 barrel, and in 86 im fairly sure they were all 4 barrels. if its as tired as you say it is, and you aint' concerned with racin and such, then save the extra dough and just get a 305.

I said it, get a 305 (if you aint racin or such, or concerned with massive power). Remember, its still a V8, and its still gonna make a good bit of power, especially torque. of course it won't pull better than a 350, thats not being debated, but he specifically said he drives it almost daily. not a racer. (correct me if im wrong)

if you REALLY want the extra power, then a 350 would be great. Just sit down and decide if a 350 is worth the extra money.

[sb400]

Check prices on crate motors - a quick web search reveals that the Goodwrench 350 is actually a few hundred $ CHEAPER than a 305.

Doesn't look like the 305 motor for an 86 is available from GM anyway.

http://www.goautocenter.com/goodwrench_engines.htm

[PHOENIX]

Go for the 350. Emissions will not be a problem if everything is set right.
Then again I think it all matters on what station you take it to.

The first time I took the crate 350 to emission (it was about 1 month old or so) it passed so clean they had 5 people checking lines under my hood. They failed me for a missing vacuum line from the PCV valve to the canister. Wierd thing is when the 305 was in it was hooked up and ran fine, when we dropped the 350 in that line caused the engine to die. We hooked it up and stuck a ball bearing in the line.

A good thing about the crate motor is the 3-year warranty.
You install it, if anything goes wrong, take it to a dealer for warranty work.
I have had the motor for 4-5 years now, cant remember exactly when we dropped it in.
No problems to date, but it is running rough, I believe its a tuning issue.

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by PHOENIX

A good thing about the crate motor is the 3-year warranty.
You install it, if anything goes wrong, take it to a dealer for warranty work.

incorrect. a GM Crate Motor, if not installed by a GM Service facility, or other established service center, carries a 1 year/12,000 mi warranty. the only way that a GM crate engine carries a 3year/36,000 mi warranty is if it is the factory replacement engine for that vehicle, and it is installed my a GM Service facility.

personally, i'd go with the cheap 350 crate (the one that is like $1200 w/core) and install it yourself. i sold quite a few of them when i was working at the dealership, and everyone who bought them loced them. the best part, its all NEW parts, no remanned crap.

[Eyegore]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Johnboy thanks for the clarification. Why I'm having someone doing it, is that I don't have the time or resources a this point, I need the truck back in service as quickly as possible, turn around time from this shop is 4 days. As for the extra $700 it accounts for the core, it's not a 350 for a 350 so its an additional $250. Then the price of the flexplate- $80, bad balancer - $70 and a few other things. Fast C10 your correct also I called the dealership about the crate mtor warranty, "must be a direct factory replacement", or I would have gone that way. This shop has been pretty straight with me on the two other engines they installed, no problems with it for the three years afterward, then the truck was stolen. At this point it looks as if the 350 is the way to go from your comments - and I really, really want to beat that girl on her trike.

Thanks again everyone

Tom

[PHOENIX]

Originally Posted by 1FaastC10

incorrect. a GM Crate Motor, if not installed by a GM Service facility, or other established service center, carries a 1 year/12,000 mi warranty. the only way that a GM crate engine carries a 3year/36,000 mi warranty is if it is the factory replacement engine for that vehicle, and it is installed my a GM Service facility.

personally, i'd go with the cheap 350 crate (the one that is like $1200 w/core) and install it yourself. i sold quite a few of them when i was working at the dealership, and everyone who bought them loced them. the best part, its all NEW parts, no remanned crap.

When I purchased mine they told me only the performance engine carried the one year warranty. The cheap 350 has the three year / 36k miles. If you install yourself they dont know the miles. My dad has the receipt because he paid for the engine and I paid him back. He still has the receipt somewhere, but it stated the warranty on the receipt. They may have changed it since then because of the unknown miles issue.

[Prerunner1982]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

the warranty on a GM crate engine would only be valid if the truck was originally equipped with a 350. Part of their fine print. I believe it is only 12mo/12,000 miles otherwise.

maybe if the truck could be had with a 350 originally... my truck had a 305 and i had a 350 dropped in it and still got the 3year/36,000..

maybe if the 350 was being dropped in an s-10 they would only give it the 1year/12,000.. cause the s-10 has never been available with a 350.

[PHOENIX]

Also I remembering reading somewhere recently that even though the crate motors carry a warranty they may not incclude the labor for the repairs. What ever you get make sure you get it in writing, parts and labor.

[Eyegore]

Thats true eddie, this is a shop in Glendale that has been there for years, the old guy that opened the shop is still there, he sold out but still watches over production and they have a 1 year unlimited mileage warranty.
However when everyone say's "crate motor" what does that mean? I hope I don't sound stupid but I've seen "Target crate motors" used on this forum and I always understood it to mean rebuilt motors from south of the border, I never thought of those as being "crate" motors. I always understood "crate" to mean factory built. The place I'm going to says rebuilt does not mean new parts, thats why they call their engines - "refurbished". All I want is something that is built to last, yes I would love the time to go down and get a crate motor from the dealership, but that aint goin to happen, no time. So hopefully someone can clear this up for me, becuase somewhere down the line the terminology has changed. Also tell me where I can get a "crate motor" beside the dealership.

[Hoods69BadBowTie]

You will be very happy if you go with the 350. I got the old 305 in my Blazer and I can't wait to rebuild my 400 SB and put it in there. Let me know how it turns out. Ohh yeah and I would agree with PHOENIX 100% when he says get everything in writing so you don't end up getting screwed.
-Later

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by Eyegore

I hope I don't sound stupid but I've seen "Target crate motors" used on this forum and I always understood it to mean rebuilt motors from south of the border,

The place I'm going to says rebuilt does not mean new parts, thats why they call their engines - "refurbished". All I want is something that is built to last,

Target crate motors are obselete, GM crate engines, and GM Performance Parts crate engines are all assembled from NEW part, NOT someone else's rebuilt junk.

as for "rebuilt" or "refurbished" engine, that's just a fancy and shorter way of saying: "we took some junk, out of the junkyard, did some tests and replaced only what was bad so it would run again. its mostly used parts, with just enough new parts to make it functional again. oh yeah, we're gonna charge you full price for it too." buy a "rebuilt" or "refurbished" engine from a auto parts supplier, or major "refurbishing" operation, that's exactly what you're getting. someone else's worn out junk. spend the $1200 and buy the good engine, you wont be sorry.

[PHOENIX]

I call a crate motor a new engine manufactured by or contracted manufacturing by the vehicle manufacturer (GM, Ford, Etc.).

Others may refer to a crate motor as any factory assembled engine placed in a crate for shipping (Example, Edelbrock, Checker, Autozone). When using the term this way you dont know if they are refering to a new or rebuilt engine or if the factory which assembled the engine does quality work and testing of components.

I would never buy a Checker or Autozone engine, but I would have a local engine shop build me one if they have been in business for many years. Warranty is worthless if they go out of business. Stick with someone who has been around and is going to be around.

[Jonboy]

www.goautocenter.com is very reasonable on Goodwrench engines. For some reason the 86 is listed alone, but I am pretty sure the 87-95 engine would work as well, since you plan to replace the balancer and flexplate anyhow.

[Slonaker]

'86 is probably listed alone because it has the one piece rear main like the '87 and up, but does not have the center bolt heads. It is a one year only, weird small block Chevy. :-(

Slonaker