700R4 to NP241 in a 71/72 Frame??

[72longbed]

Haven't had the best luck with info on adapting the 700R4 trans. to an NP205 without a lot of modification, so I'm wondering if it would just be easier to go with the 700R4 / NP241 combo?? Does anybody have any info on this combo in a 71/72 frame??

I've read that these transfer cases were available with both drivers side and passenger side front output shaft. Will a drivers side output shaft T/C work in a 71/72 frame with a small block and 700R4?? (I can get a great deal on a Dana 44 out of a $ord that has drivers side housing.)

Lots of questions, looking for experienced answers,
72longbed

[gn4u2c]

just find one out of a blazer 89 + should be just what ya need.

[4bynut]

Like (gn4u2c) said, if you find one out of a suburban or blazer. Find a 1991 or older model it will have passenger side drop. You will be able to use your stock axle this way. When you find a setup try to get the trans, tranfer case, adapter, and crossmember. Hope this helps, Jason.

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by 4bynut

Like (gn4u2c) said, if you find one out of a suburban or blazer. Find a 1991 or older model it will have passenger side drop. You will be able to use your stock axle this way. When you find a setup try to get the trans, tranfer case, adapter, and crossmember. Hope this helps, Jason.

I think that he is going to convert his truck to 4x4. If thats true, then just get a 700r4/np241 out of a chevy truck with IFS (drivers side drop). If not, disregard what I just said.

[72longbed]

gn4u2c,
where you at in PA?? I'm over here in Gilbertsville, PA.

1969 GMC,
you hit the nail right on the head. I am converting my truck over to 4x4 and seriously looking into doing it the way the guy that was featured in a 1997 issue of '4 Wheel and Off-Road' did his 71 C/K20. It would involve a solid front Dana axle but with coil springs and radius arms. Soooooo, I was hoping there were some knowledgable members on this board that also know their beans about Ford 4x4's and aren't afraid to talk about it. I think its a perfectly 'DoAble' solution, I just don't have the knowledge about the interchangiblity between Ford and Chevy front Dana axles and if my truck, a 1972 can accomodate a drivers side drop T/C???

Hope I don't make any enemies by possibly using Ford parts under my truck

72longbed

[smokekiki]

check out this group on yahhoo.....http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/4x4van/ They do homemade 4x4 van conversions.I have a 4x4 ford van.

[72longbed]

69GMC,
if I used the NP241 with drivers side drop, what coil sprung front axle would I use to mate up to the 241?? I'm going to suspend it by using radius arms with a custom bracket and coils.

Any ideas would be great,
thanks,
72longbed

[barraza]

Nothing wrong with your ideas, but why reinvent the wheel? A 700r4 is easy to connect to a np205 compared to the modifications you are planning. By the time you do the frame mods for coil springs, supports at the rear of the arms, panhard attachment, and crossover steering; you could probably buy a dana 60 and bolt it in using stock parts.

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by 72longbed

69GMC,
if I used the NP241 with drivers side drop, what coil sprung front axle would I use to mate up to the 241?? I'm going to suspend it by using radius arms with a custom bracket and coils.

Any ideas would be great,
thanks,
72longbed

sorry about that, when i saw you could get a Ford D44 for some reason I assumed it was out of an F150 or Bronco, because they had coils and radius arms from the factory. at least the 78-79's did.

[72longbed]

1969 GMC,
thats the plan so far, to use the front axle parts from a 78-79 F150 Dana 44, (are they the only years that I can use?) that has factory coils and Radius arms and would be approximatly the correct width for the truck. The custom bracket that I referred to would be for the 'rear' end of the radius arms and will be bolted to the frame rails somewhere under the Transfer Case.

But if I use a stock Ford front axle it will require a drivers side output transfer case to match the front diff.. This is where I've got to make a decision; do I go with Ford axle/Ford T/C or do I use a GM Dana front axle/GM T/C and cobble, glue, nail (kidding) all of the Ford coil spring perches and Radius arm mounts onto it?? Probably the easiest way to do this would be the second of the two, I just need to physically SEE a 78-79 Ford F150 front Dana 44 to understand how all of the hardware might be removed from it and mounted onto the GM Dana 44, that way I can keep the passenger side output shaft T/C.

barazza,
Ok, first of all you need to enlighten all of us on "the easy" way to connect a 700R4 to an NP 205 without tearing down the tranny totally ($$$) and spending Mega bucks for the AA adapter shaft kit ($$$)???

Next, the 1972 C20 has the upper spring pockets integral to the front crossmember. I would actually remove most of the stock GM front suspension and steering parts from the C20 to install the new coil sprung front axle under the front crossmember.

Next, the rear trailing arms require NO modification. The rear axle is placed under the trailing arms. The rear axle tubes will have an additional set of flat perches welded to what is now the 'top' of the axle tube and that new perch will go under the trailing arms. This 'flip' will require a longer center rear brake line.

Next, the panhard bar on my truck is adjustable in length. In the worst case I might have to make up a longer internal end with a Heim joint on it (simple).

So barazza, I am not going into this blindly (did I mention that there is more than one of these exact conversions running around Wisconsin right now, and a 1971 C/K 20 with this exact conversion was featured in '4 Wheel and Off-Road' magazine a few years ago?), it has all been done already, I am still gathering info and considering my options as to which direction to go.... but I am gonna do it. ( I hear the ride is Super Smooothhh!!!)

More to come,
72longbed

[barraza]

There are two ways to connect a 700r4 to a np205. The Advance adapter shaft only costs about $175 bucks and does require tearing down the trans. The other way is using a spacer that was originally designed to use when replacing a 700 with a turbo 350, there was a discussion here in the last month about it. I think the spacer is less than $75. The advance shaft uses the stock turbo350 to 205 adapter. The spacer is cheap, but adds extra length the the already long 700r4. Both work fine.

Before you count on using the 2wd crossmember for upper spring mounts, you need to check the location of the springs on the axle, it might work fine. I didnt mean mods to the rear trailing arms, I meant a crossmember and mounts for the front radius arms. Likewise, I meant the front panhard mount and framework will need working out, not the rear. Although the rear will need to be lowered on the frame or raised on the axle to be closer to level if you mount the axle under the trailing arms.

You will most likely be forced to use a crossover steering setup, might work out best since you already have a 2wd steering box instead of 4wd

Also note that a f150 will be 6lug, not the 8lug you need to match your 14ff. Look for f250 trucks.

I didn't mean the project is undoable, there was a converted 2wd locally that used the rear axle mounted under the trailing arms and a solid front axle on leaf springs, havent seen it lately though. My point was that given the expense and fab work you're looking at, my opinion is that you will be way ahead by starting with a 4wd chevy truck or frame and converting from there instead of mixing and matching ford and chevy parts. Projects like this always end up costing double what you figure. Good luck

[72longbed]

barraza,
how do you install an Output Shaft in a 700R4 without a complete teardown?? I need to know this so I can do it. Everybody on this Board who has responded to my questions on this topic for the last two months has stated that you have to tear down the tranny to install the output shaft on a 700R4. I think you would be helping all of us if you could explain how to install any one of Advance Adapters four (4) output shafts that they make for the 700R4 without a complete teardown, I'm all ears on this one.

The "Spacer". Do a search for the Threads that involve this mystery part. You will find that two (2) Board members in the last 70 days purchased that spacer from 'Red' somebody to mate a 700R4 to an NP205. The last we heard from them was the night before they attempted to install it. You will find that I and others have tried to communicate with these members about their success with installing that "spacer". These members were never heard from again?!?!?!? I think that part must have attacked them and ate them both???? So how do you know that "both work fine", did you install one of those 'Spacers' also??

The 2WD crossmember will actually bring the spring cups on the GM Dana 44 that I will be using alot further towards the hubs. This will give more stability to the front suspension than a narrower 'leaf' setup. I have no idea what your comments on the rear meant, so I can't comment other than the rear setup is very straight forward and doesn't require any body lift or lowering??

A 'crossover' steering setup is a good thing, and I look forward to using it.

As far as lugnuts go, I'll be changing the GM Dana 44 to 8 lug rotors. You cannot use F250 parts for any of this conversion, the F250 used leaf springs in the front and the diff is on the wrong side.

Regarding the "mix and match", I have decided to not use ANY Ford parts to make my truck 4WD capable. I will use all aftermarket suspension parts to assemble a completely unique 4WD truck. There, can we still be friends if I don't use Ford parts?

The "easiest" way to get 4WD is to just go out and buy another truck, if I wanted the easy way I wouldn't have spent the last four years building my current truck the way I wanted it. I like to build stuff, so now I'm gonna work with what I got and just 'improve' it a little.

Still wrenchin,
72longbed

[barraza]

Dude, learn how to read before being an a** and jumping down my throat, my response says:
"The Advance adapter shaft only costs about $175 bucks and does require tearing down the trans."
What isn't clear about my statement?

Regarding the spacer, believe it or not, the world doesn't begin and end on THIS board. I havent used one of the spacers, but I have seen one installed on a truck and it did work fine. It's only a spacer, how hard can it be to "work". Try looking on ck5 or pirate, you'll probably have better luck on ck5.

On the rear, I was refering to the panhard rod mods. If you mount the rear under the trailing arms, the rod will be at a very steep angle and will need to be leveled out, not just lengthened.

Good luck on your project

[72longbed]

"DuDe",
you are attacking me for an honest mistake. I genuinely thought you knew of a way to install the output shaft without a major teardown. I was sincere in asking "how its done". I know how to read, I just sensed the 'know-it-all' and judgemental attitude in your previous responses to my quest for technical knowledge from members who have actual 'hands-on' experience, and thought you were being negative again rather than trying to help. I also seriously asked if YOU had done these things so that I could believe its possible to do.

If you noticed I have tried to share with you exactly what I'm trying to accomplish in a very technical respect. I'm not interested in being talked out of anything by 'Negative Nellies'. If something is just not possible than thats a different story. Some people can't help themselves and Bash others for trying to be creative rather than try to help.

I did mis-read your response, and you have my appologies for that, but I haven't mis-read your attitude.
Good luck with your projects also,

72longbed

[smokekiki]

All 700r4 4x4 trans had a 27 spline shaft.When You take the tail housing off the 2wd trans,the shaft will be to long.You will need a spacer or a new shaft.If you find a divorced case,You can set it up some of the napco trucks.they had a 2wd trans hooked to the transfer with a stub shaft.It makes a long front shaft.You would need the shifter with the divorced case/and or make modify one.

[smokekiki]

Did You read this.... http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/projectbuild/38819/

[hugger67]

72longbed i did get the spacer and got it installed everything worked great i actually sold the truck that it was in it was in there about all of 2 weeks but i pulled the spacer and 205 out and put the 208 back in before i sold it so i have the spacer still if you are interested you can have it for $55 shipped let me know

[barraza]

That was some apology, you admit you misread my post and you were wrong but then called me:

a "know-it-all"
with a "judgemental attitude"
that was "being negative"
and a "Negative Nellie"
who "can't help themselves"
and "Bash(es) others"
"rather than try to help"
with an "attitude".

You sound a little judgemental yourself, thanks for your opinion. I have a 4wd 72, and have worked on converted trucks before and was simply trying to tell you that you are doing this the hard and expensive way.

Sorry if you took me wrong, but I have been building hot rods and trucks for 30 years and your plan didn't sound very good to me, I guess I was too blunt. Being an old fart does that sometimes. The first question I should have asked is what do you plan on doing with the truck when you are finished? Kind of hard to assess your plan without knowing your intended use.

Sorry for the misunderstanding

[smokekiki]

Read this..http://www.coloradok5.com/coilover.shtml And then go to the product review and they have articles on crossover steering.

[72longbed]

smokekiki,
thanks for the great articles Mike! These are real good stuff that gives me even more ideas. Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this, my computer was down for about 12 hours.

I appreciate the 'legwork' you have done to find these articles for me,
thanks again,
72longbed