Crate Motor for an 86 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Eyegore · 02-08-2005, 02:21 PM

Well I finally started pursue putting in a 350 crate motor as suggested instead of a remanufactured 350. I called the GM dealership and they said that a 86 350 crate does not exist, the hybrid year that was mentioned earlier, guess this has to with the one piece rear main. They suggested that I use a 85 motor instead. They said I would need to replace the balancer- thats OK I thinks mine is worn out anyway, flexplate and flexplate cover. My question though concerns the starter, is it the same as in my 305 or will I have to purchase a different one? The dealer said that everything SHOULD fit, brackets for ac, ps pump, alternator.

I'm sorry for bring this up again but I don't want to get into the middle of this and find myself spending more than what it would have cost just to have the remanufactured one installed. They also said I would only get one year on the warranty due to the fact that Im not replacing it in kind and I have to pay another $100 for the core.

Also, what carb would you recommend, I still have the old original, I'm not even sure what it is, but since it was on a 305 and I'm putting in a 350 do I need to increase the size? This will be kept stock, no racing action except the little girl on the tricycle, and I want to use the original air cleaner assembly to keep the emission people happy.

Tom

beaterC10 · 02-08-2005, 03:51 PM

Your starter will fit as long as the new flexplate has the same number of teeth as the old one. There are only two possible tooth counts, each one uses a unique starter snout. Its no big deal to swap starter snouts. The 305 starter will get the job done for your 350. Even if you have to replace starters, they are cheap.

I swapped in a 350 with double hump heads and a big cam in place of a tired 305. I used the same Q-jet, but I did have it rebuilt and tuned by Jet Performance. It made a world of difference. On a stock 350 you could re-use the old Q-jet, may want to throw a rebuild kit at it.

badone07 · 02-08-2005, 06:49 PM

Sorry didn't follow the previous threads. Does the current 305 have perimeter bolt valve covers or center bolt? This would determine the use of the stock air cleaner or slight modifying. Does the 305 have a 1 piece or 2 piece rear main seal, if it's already pulled out?

Most likely a direct swap and just dealing with the carb and/or dizzy.

low 84 · 02-08-2005, 07:07 PM

305 flexplate has a different tooth count IIRC, 153 instead of 168. you will need a starter that goes with whatever flexplate your getting for the new motor. i'm not sure if you can put a 153 tooth on the new 350 and then reuse your starter?? you might have to get a 168 thooth flexplate and starter to go with it. i just bought a lifetime warrentee starter at napa for $34 at napa with core

powder2 · 02-09-2005, 01:02 AM

ijust got a crate 350 from scoggin dickey and it came with a 3 yr 36,000 mile warranty that don't sound right about a 1 year warranty. but it does soud right about 100.00 core charge i paid about 1500.00 for my 350 and scoggin dickey will ship it to you

Slonaker · 02-09-2005, 01:20 AM

I would like to change out my 305 for a 350 eventually. I look forward to learning from your mistakes.

Please share the information regarding what fit and what didn't once you are done.

Slonaker

badone07 · 02-09-2005, 01:53 AM

Powder2, they do that warranty dance, when the motor being replaced isn't exactly the same displacement as the new one going in. Total BS. Then $100 bux core because they don't even really want the 305's.

**76sierraclassic** · 02-09-2005, 09:56 AM

About the warranty....I looked in my Summit catalog, and it indicates that the warranty is 3yrs/50,000 miles if the engine is used in a 70-85 GM vehicle that had a 350 originally, otherwise 12mos/12,000 miles.

Mike

KShortell · 02-09-2005, 11:07 AM

The whole 1-off thing with the LS9 SBCs in 1986 has kept me thinking of rebuilding the engine I've got if the time ever comes. I actually kind of like the 1-piece rear main seal since they don't tend to leak as much. Plus, I don't want to reinvent the wheel on the top end of the motor.

I'm not 100% decided, but the good news is that this engine shows no sign of giving up the ghost anytime soon!

If I really wanted a "drop-in" crate motor, I would have to go with the older ('85 and earlier) engine and a different flexplate.

Note that the 1-piece rear main seal engines have a different crankshaft bolt pattern and are externally balanced, a change from the earlier engines.

Good luck!

Eyegore · 02-09-2005, 11:48 AM

Thanks everyone, I was afraid that there was a difference in the flexplate, I hate it when the saleperson says "well I'm almost sure". I also found out that they have had problems with the crate motors from the dealership, it seems that the oil passages at the rear of the block are a little thin, sometimes leaking, but other than that they've had very few returned.
Well I'll be kicking it around a little longer, it looks like the end of the month is when I'll be changing out the motor. I'll probaly get everything up front, water pump, hoses, gaskets, STARTER, flexplate, motor mounts, carb rebuild kit and balancer - so am I forgeting annything?

76HighSierra · 02-09-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badone07

Powder2, they do that warranty dance, when the motor being replaced isn't exactly the same displacement as the new one going in. Total BS. Then $100 bux core because they don't even really want the 305's.

They shouldn't be charging a core period . It's not like they are giving you a re-man engine. It's a brand new one. That's like going into wal-mart for some new jeans, and them charging you 5 bucks because you didn't give them your old ones.

Eyegore · 02-09-2005, 05:30 PM

76 I agree, like what are they going to do with it

There should be no core charge, but everywhere I checked there is one. Can someone who does business with suppliers please explain.

badone07 · 02-09-2005, 06:25 PM

I called about one a while ago, I asked the same question reguarding a core exchange on a new motor. I had a junk 305 laying around. I didn't want to part the particular tired 350, figuring I would definitely use it later. The clown on the phone made it sound like I was getting a discount for the core otherwise it wouldn't be as advertised. Then the 305 core was worth $100 less than the 350. So it was either give them the 350 or 305 + $100. I didn't ask what the price would be for no core, since I was getting po'd enough already with the backwards logic of buying a new gm motor. I also didn't ask what the warranty would be if I just wanted the engine to sit on my stand for a couple of years, to see if the 3 year or 1 year would apply. Hidden cost scam is what it is. Wound up just rebuilding another 350.

1986Silverado · 02-09-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyegore

76 I agree, like what are they going to do with it

There should be no core charge, but everywhere I checked there is one. Can someone who does business with suppliers please explain.

There should be no core charge if it is new. I had a '97 Chevy 1 ton van and the heads had burnt valves and instead of redoing the heads we put a crate(new)350 in it, no core charge and we even kept the old engine.

**Boog** · 02-09-2005, 09:48 PM

It stands to reason a core will apply to any reman'd engines but certainly not a totally new engine.

79BIG10 · 02-10-2005, 04:38 AM

When I bought my new ZZ4 I didn't have to give a core. I would defiantely look into somewhere else for what you're looking for.

85 K5 · 02-10-2005, 08:25 AM

goautocenter.com

Slonaker · 02-10-2005, 12:55 PM

Someone posted a while back that a new GM policy would require a $100 core charge on all new crate motors. That has been the case with every dealer site I have looked at since then.

This might help regarding the warranty, although it is kind of vague like everything else.

http://gmgoodwrench.com/resources/pd...esWarranty.pdf

It says that the warranty does not cover damage due to use an an application not approved by GM. The warranty will only be honored when the engine is installed in a vehicle for which there is an application listed in the GM Catalog. I am paraphrasing what they say in the PDF, but it sounds to me like they won't honor the warranty unless the engine is listed as being correct for your application.

The cheap 350 crate is a 2 piece rear main engine, so it is not correct for your application. My '86 pickup was never available with a 2 piece rear main, nor was my '37 Chevy (6 cylinder originally), so the dealer could easily weasel his way out of any warranty I would get if I were to buy one. This would worry me. Well, it does worry me, and has me reconsidering these engines as replacements in my cars.

Slonaker

Eyegore · 02-10-2005, 01:51 PM

I agree, with the remanufacture engine I get warranty, I think for three years and unlimited miles and they do all the work. They also have been in business and same place for 30 years.

60-66 Nut · 02-10-2005, 02:28 PM

About the core exchange on a new engine, I've seen that many times on heavy truck parts(International, Freightliner, etc). It's not unusual for them to require a core on new water pumps, turbos, etc, and even some electrical parts. And many times the core charge is as much or more than the new part itself. They claim it's to get more cores for their reman lines. Don't know if it's the same case here, but it might be.

60-66 Nut

KShortell · 02-10-2005, 05:37 PM

With the price of steel the way it is, they may be looking for new scrap. Ship Shape TV took a neat tour of the GM engine foundry in Defiance, Ohio recently. It was pretty cool seeing them turn scrap into engines...

piecesparts · 02-12-2005, 06:04 PM

Go to ANY Chevy dealer that is a Performance Parts dealer and tell them that you want a 350 replacement motor. I have had two of them and they bolted directly into the 84 and the 86 Chevy pickups that I had. The motors come without the necessities and you can put them on from the truck. Buy it, bolt it, bang it. It is that simple. I went ahead and changed the cam out in the motors so that I could get the best performance out of them. The thought is that the motor warranty is null aafter that, however, so is the one you would build yourself. I have not had to go back to the dealer for warranty, so it did not occur in my world. Everyone to their own taste.

Tx Firefighter · 02-13-2005, 08:44 AM

Guys, I am an ex dealership mechanic here. The 100 dollar core charge is for real on these engines. Don't think the dealership guy is trying to hose you.

**Boog** · 02-13-2005, 07:31 PM

That's about right. Seems businesses everywhere are finding ways to charge us more for their goods. A core charge here, a document fee, an origination fee with mortgage loans and a "customer charge" with our utility company. I have to PAY to be a CUSTOMER for crying out loud. Will it ever end?

Harry's 71 C-10 · 02-13-2005, 07:58 PM

There is no core on the performance engines. I just bought the 350ci/290 hp back in Sept. I paid $1495 with no core. The dealership told me there are core charges on the standard 350ci/249 hp, so the total cost was $1440. Also, my local chevy dealership charged me cost plus 10%, I couldn't find a better deal on the web (No shipping charges).

02-08-2005, 02:21 PM	#1
Eyegore What Hump? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New River AZ Posts: 2,009	Crate Motor for an 86 Well I finally started pursue putting in a 350 crate motor as suggested instead of a remanufactured 350. I called the GM dealership and they said that a 86 350 crate does not exist, the hybrid year that was mentioned earlier, guess this has to with the one piece rear main. They suggested that I use a 85 motor instead. They said I would need to replace the balancer- thats OK I thinks mine is worn out anyway, flexplate and flexplate cover. My question though concerns the starter, is it the same as in my 305 or will I have to purchase a different one? The dealer said that everything SHOULD fit, brackets for ac, ps pump, alternator. I'm sorry for bring this up again but I don't want to get into the middle of this and find myself spending more than what it would have cost just to have the remanufactured one installed. They also said I would only get one year on the warranty due to the fact that Im not replacing it in kind and I have to pay another $100 for the core. Also, what carb would you recommend, I still have the old original, I'm not even sure what it is, but since it was on a 305 and I'm putting in a 350 do I need to increase the size? This will be kept stock, no racing action except the little girl on the tricycle, and I want to use the original air cleaner assembly to keep the emission people happy. Tom __________________ Lil red 86 c-10 99 Sub 78 Camper Special w/ 454

02-08-2005, 06:49 PM	#3
badone07 Project 2 Resume Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jim Thorpe, PA Posts: 884	Sorry didn't follow the previous threads. Does the current 305 have perimeter bolt valve covers or center bolt? This would determine the use of the stock air cleaner or slight modifying. Does the 305 have a 1 piece or 2 piece rear main seal, if it's already pulled out? Most likely a direct swap and just dealing with the carb and/or dizzy. __________________ John 1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's) 1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide) 1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400) 1984 Monte SS (circle track car)

02-08-2005, 07:07 PM	#4
low 84 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,144	305 flexplate has a different tooth count IIRC, 153 instead of 168. you will need a starter that goes with whatever flexplate your getting for the new motor. i'm not sure if you can put a 153 tooth on the new 350 and then reuse your starter?? you might have to get a 168 thooth flexplate and starter to go with it. i just bought a lifetime warrentee starter at napa for $34 at napa with core __________________ '51 F100, backhalf with a narrowed 9 and coil overs, 18.5" mickeys, monte front clip, +400" sbc in the works '05 1500 Crew Cab RIP '84 swb 5/7 drop, solid cammed 408 w/ fully ported dart heads, th350 w/ 10 inch hughes, 12 bolt w/ 3.73 richmonds and a locker '80 swb 4x4 in progress: 7" lift, 350 th350/np205, d44 and 1.5" ORD tie rod, 14BFF w/discs , armored diff covers, 40" MTR's

02-09-2005, 01:20 AM	#6
Slonaker Insert Witty Text Here Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 3,415	I would like to change out my 305 for a 350 eventually. I look forward to learning from your mistakes. Please share the information regarding what fit and what didn't once you are done. Slonaker __________________ '86 Chevy C10 (Sold 04/19/13 ) Stock '01 Silverado

02-09-2005, 01:53 AM	#7
badone07 Project 2 Resume Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jim Thorpe, PA Posts: 884	Powder2, they do that warranty dance, when the motor being replaced isn't exactly the same displacement as the new one going in. Total BS. Then $100 bux core because they don't even really want the 305's. __________________ John 1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's) 1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide) 1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400) 1984 Monte SS (circle track car) Last edited by badone07; 02-09-2005 at 01:55 AM.

02-08-2005, 03:51 PM	#2
beaterC10 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,277	Your starter will fit as long as the new flexplate has the same number of teeth as the old one. There are only two possible tooth counts, each one uses a unique starter snout. Its no big deal to swap starter snouts. The 305 starter will get the job done for your 350. Even if you have to replace starters, they are cheap. I swapped in a 350 with double hump heads and a big cam in place of a tired 305. I used the same Q-jet, but I did have it rebuilt and tuned by Jet Performance. It made a world of difference. On a stock 350 you could re-use the old Q-jet, may want to throw a rebuild kit at it.

02-09-2005, 01:02 AM	#5
powder2 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Abilene Texas Posts: 287	ijust got a crate 350 from scoggin dickey and it came with a 3 yr 36,000 mile warranty that don't sound right about a 1 year warranty. but it does soud right about 100.00 core charge i paid about 1500.00 for my 350 and scoggin dickey will ship it to you

02-09-2005, 09:56 AM	#8
76sierraclassic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: White Hall, AR Posts: 316	About the warranty....I looked in my Summit catalog, and it indicates that the warranty is 3yrs/50,000 miles if the engine is used in a 70-85 GM vehicle that had a 350 originally, otherwise 12mos/12,000 miles. Mike Last edited by 76sierraclassic; 02-09-2005 at 10:08 AM.

02-09-2005, 11:07 AM	#9
KShortell Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 724	The whole 1-off thing with the LS9 SBCs in 1986 has kept me thinking of rebuilding the engine I've got if the time ever comes. I actually kind of like the 1-piece rear main seal since they don't tend to leak as much. Plus, I don't want to reinvent the wheel on the top end of the motor. I'm not 100% decided, but the good news is that this engine shows no sign of giving up the ghost anytime soon! If I really wanted a "drop-in" crate motor, I would have to go with the older ('85 and earlier) engine and a different flexplate. Note that the 1-piece rear main seal engines have a different crankshaft bolt pattern and are externally balanced, a change from the earlier engines. Good luck! __________________ Semper Paratus

02-09-2005, 11:48 AM	#10
Eyegore What Hump? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New River AZ Posts: 2,009	Thanks everyone, I was afraid that there was a difference in the flexplate, I hate it when the saleperson says "well I'm almost sure". I also found out that they have had problems with the crate motors from the dealership, it seems that the oil passages at the rear of the block are a little thin, sometimes leaking, but other than that they've had very few returned. Well I'll be kicking it around a little longer, it looks like the end of the month is when I'll be changing out the motor. I'll probaly get everything up front, water pump, hoses, gaskets, STARTER, flexplate, motor mounts, carb rebuild kit and balancer - so am I forgeting annything? __________________ Lil red 86 c-10 99 Sub 78 Camper Special w/ 454

02-09-2005, 05:30 PM	#12
Eyegore What Hump? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New River AZ Posts: 2,009	76 I agree, like what are they going to do with it There should be no core charge, but everywhere I checked there is one. Can someone who does business with suppliers please explain. __________________ Lil red 86 c-10 99 Sub 78 Camper Special w/ 454

02-09-2005, 06:25 PM	#13
badone07 Project 2 Resume Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jim Thorpe, PA Posts: 884	I called about one a while ago, I asked the same question reguarding a core exchange on a new motor. I had a junk 305 laying around. I didn't want to part the particular tired 350, figuring I would definitely use it later. The clown on the phone made it sound like I was getting a discount for the core otherwise it wouldn't be as advertised. Then the 305 core was worth $100 less than the 350. So it was either give them the 350 or 305 + $100. I didn't ask what the price would be for no core, since I was getting po'd enough already with the backwards logic of buying a new gm motor. I also didn't ask what the warranty would be if I just wanted the engine to sit on my stand for a couple of years, to see if the 3 year or 1 year would apply. Hidden cost scam is what it is. Wound up just rebuilding another 350. __________________ John 1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's) 1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide) 1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400) 1984 Monte SS (circle track car)

02-09-2005, 09:48 PM	#15
Boog laying low Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Searcy, Ark. USA Posts: 13,118	It stands to reason a core will apply to any reman'd engines but certainly not a totally new engine. __________________ Boog 69 Chevy stepside, 358/T350, 4.11 posi, 4.5/4 drop, rallys, poboy driver primer is finer 91 Chevy sportside, Tahoe, Yukon & GMC Crewcab All GM..'nuff said. I stand for the flag and kneel at the cross

02-10-2005, 04:38 AM	#16
79BIG10 I'm back with 2nd truck! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 3,775	When I bought my new ZZ4 I didn't have to give a core. I would defiantely look into somewhere else for what you're looking for. __________________ 1979 Chevrolet Bonanza Big10 "Tootsie Roll" 1985 Chevrolet Silverado (wife's) Member of the Southern Bowties Club "Don't underestimate how sexy a fat man who drinks to excess can be." Homer Simpson

02-10-2005, 08:25 AM	#17
85 K5 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spring TX Posts: 113	goautocenter.com __________________ 350 Crate 10 bolt 3.73 2.5 lift 32x11.50 1904 Edelbrock http://www.oplnk.net/~spirit/K5front.jpg



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02-10-2005, 12:55 PM	#18
Slonaker Insert Witty Text Here Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 3,415	Someone posted a while back that a new GM policy would require a $100 core charge on all new crate motors. That has been the case with every dealer site I have looked at since then. This might help regarding the warranty, although it is kind of vague like everything else. http://gmgoodwrench.com/resources/pd...esWarranty.pdf It says that the warranty does not cover damage due to use an an application not approved by GM. The warranty will only be honored when the engine is installed in a vehicle for which there is an application listed in the GM Catalog. I am paraphrasing what they say in the PDF, but it sounds to me like they won't honor the warranty unless the engine is listed as being correct for your application. The cheap 350 crate is a 2 piece rear main engine, so it is not correct for your application. My '86 pickup was never available with a 2 piece rear main, nor was my '37 Chevy (6 cylinder originally), so the dealer could easily weasel his way out of any warranty I would get if I were to buy one. This would worry me. Well, it does worry me, and has me reconsidering these engines as replacements in my cars. Slonaker __________________ '86 Chevy C10 (Sold 04/19/13 ) Stock '01 Silverado Last edited by Slonaker; 02-10-2005 at 12:58 PM.

02-10-2005, 01:51 PM	#19
Eyegore What Hump? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New River AZ Posts: 2,009	I agree, with the remanufacture engine I get warranty, I think for three years and unlimited miles and they do all the work. They also have been in business and same place for 30 years. __________________ Lil red 86 c-10 99 Sub 78 Camper Special w/ 454

02-10-2005, 02:28 PM	#20
60-66 Nut Professional Beer Tester Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Louisiana Posts: 453	About the core exchange on a new engine, I've seen that many times on heavy truck parts(International, Freightliner, etc). It's not unusual for them to require a core on new water pumps, turbos, etc, and even some electrical parts. And many times the core charge is as much or more than the new part itself. They claim it's to get more cores for their reman lines. Don't know if it's the same case here, but it might be. 60-66 Nut __________________ 60 Ford F100 Custom Cab 61 Apache Short Fleetside 64 C10 Short Stepside 65 C80 409 V8 5spd(X-Firetruck) 83 GMC 350 Olds Diesel 85 GMC Short Bed 86 GMC Short Bed 90 GMC R3500 Crew Cab 92 GMC 1500

02-10-2005, 05:37 PM	#21
KShortell Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 724	With the price of steel the way it is, they may be looking for new scrap. Ship Shape TV took a neat tour of the GM engine foundry in Defiance, Ohio recently. It was pretty cool seeing them turn scrap into engines... __________________ Semper Paratus

02-12-2005, 06:04 PM	#22
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Go to ANY Chevy dealer that is a Performance Parts dealer and tell them that you want a 350 replacement motor. I have had two of them and they bolted directly into the 84 and the 86 Chevy pickups that I had. The motors come without the necessities and you can put them on from the truck. Buy it, bolt it, bang it. It is that simple. I went ahead and changed the cam out in the motors so that I could get the best performance out of them. The thought is that the motor warranty is null aafter that, however, so is the one you would build yourself. I have not had to go back to the dealer for warranty, so it did not occur in my world. Everyone to their own taste.

02-13-2005, 08:44 AM	#23
Tx Firefighter Watch out for your cornhole ! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Azle, Texas Posts: 14,162	Guys, I am an ex dealership mechanic here. The 100 dollar core charge is for real on these engines. Don't think the dealership guy is trying to hose you. __________________ I'm on the Instagram- @Gearhead_Kevin

02-13-2005, 07:31 PM	#24
Boog laying low Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Searcy, Ark. USA Posts: 13,118	That's about right. Seems businesses everywhere are finding ways to charge us more for their goods. A core charge here, a document fee, an origination fee with mortgage loans and a "customer charge" with our utility company. I have to PAY to be a CUSTOMER for crying out loud. Will it ever end? __________________ Boog 69 Chevy stepside, 358/T350, 4.11 posi, 4.5/4 drop, rallys, poboy driver primer is finer 91 Chevy sportside, Tahoe, Yukon & GMC Crewcab All GM..'nuff said. I stand for the flag and kneel at the cross

02-13-2005, 07:58 PM	#25
Harry's 71 C-10 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 35	There is no core on the performance engines. I just bought the 350ci/290 hp back in Sept. I paid $1495 with no core. The dealership told me there are core charges on the standard 350ci/249 hp, so the total cost was $1440. Also, my local chevy dealership charged me cost plus 10%, I couldn't find a better deal on the web (No shipping charges).

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