building my own frame, crossmember drop & z, or just z? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

bagged01extcab · 08-30-2005, 11:20 PM

I'm starting an 84 swb project. My plans are bagged and body dropped (maybe to the doors, but at least to the rocker - pinch weld) on a custom frame to lay on 22's. I have an extra frame and crossmember that I plan on using for the crossmember and mock up. I have been trying to figure out if I should just figure in enough "Z" and leave the crossmember stock, or do a combination of crossmember drop & "Z"? What's everyone's opinion on this?

Thanks
Trey

bagged_gmc · 08-30-2005, 11:27 PM

Both! Don't just lay rocker, SLAM IT ON THE ROCKERS!

Jaredm82 · 08-31-2005, 01:24 AM

if your making a frame why mess with cutting up your crossmember?

bagged01extcab · 08-31-2005, 10:52 PM

What happened to all of the "crossmember drop" gurrus?

Jaredm82 · 08-31-2005, 11:45 PM

Im right here man

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 12:07 AM

if you are doing a custom frame (2x4 box tube) then just leave the crossmember stock. If you plan on laying door then do the custom frame. If you just want to lay rocker and thats all then use the stock frame. One thing you can do to the crossmember if you make a custom frame is narrow it......... take 3" out down the center of it. Reason for this is to be able to drive around slammed and be able to turn at the same time. Plus it will give you more of a selection of rims.

bagged01extcab · 09-01-2005, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaredm82

Im right here man

I was just expecting a few more replys! Not that you aren't a gurru or anything!

Wouldn't narrowing the frame cause even more steering problems? I will probably run rack & pinion steering, and I think the frame rail might interfere more if moved in. Oh, and I will also be running a 454 so that doesn't leave much room!

Jaredm82 · 09-01-2005, 12:23 AM

oh please, I can almost make a u turn with my truck on the ground and that is with those wheels that I got stuck with. If I got another .5" of BS I bet I could do it. Other than that I can make all the turns needed while driving my truck low with the very standard 5" BS on my wheels. Build your custom frame and put your crossmember where you want it. No need to section it too

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaredm82

oh please, I can almost make a u turn with my truck on the ground and that is with those wheels that I got stuck with. If I got another .5" of BS I bet I could do it. Other than that I can make all the turns needed while driving my truck low with the very standard 5" BS on my wheels. Build your custom frame and put your crossmember where you want it. No need to section it too

Almost only works w/ horse shoes and hand gernades

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagged01extcab

Wouldn't narrowing the frame cause even more steering problems? I will probably run rack & pinion steering, and I think the frame rail might interfere more if moved in. Oh, and I will also be running a 454 so that doesn't leave much room!

even w/ a 454 in it thats only a 1.5" on each side that your giving up. If you are running a rack then you are going to have no probs w/ steering if set up right. Some very good shops perform this mod w/ no probs. Its your truck so you do what you want..... you asked for opinions and i gave you mine

Jaredm82 · 09-01-2005, 12:15 PM

You dont need to make a U-turn with your truck on the ground. I get around just fine while on the ground with out making U-turns. If I happen to get the need to make a U-turn I simply air the front up just a bit, make my U-turn, put it back where it was, and Im on my merry little way. If U-Turns while extremely low are that important to you then go ahead and cut your crossmember in half, but I definetly dont think the outcome will be worth all the extra work that is needed to put your crossmember back together where it is as strong as it was before it was in 2 peices. I think the more rational alternative would be to get wheels made for your specific aplication. I'd say almost all billet wheel companies can give you atleast 6" of BS on a 8.5" wheel, most can do more.

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 12:33 PM

Did I touch a soft spot....... haha

Yes you can get custom wheels made but the price diff if huge between mass produced and custom off ones. I was just letting the dude know whats out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaredm82

If U-Turns while extremely low are that important to you then go ahead and cut your crossmember in half, but I definetly dont think the outcome will be worth all the extra work that is needed to put your crossmember back together where it is as strong as it was before it was in 2 peices.

Then if you are worried about cutting up the crossmember then why are you always telling people to section their crossmember? If done right just like with any mod should be just as safe Thats my 2 cents

fastbagged68 · 09-01-2005, 02:57 PM

I'm right here. I haven't had time to post! I will be able to do a you turn with only turning the wheel a little bit.....and dragging frame! I will use my HP/TQ to whip my back end around!

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 04:02 PM

thats what I am talking about

Whens that thing going to be up and running?

Jaredm82 · 09-01-2005, 05:23 PM

how can a crossmember that is cut along it's vertical plane be as strong as one that is cut along it's lateral plane after welded back together? Come on lets be rational here. Anyways, if this guy wants to build a complete frame and cut his crossmember in half on both planes? then be my guest! If something is going to be that custom why not start from scratch and fab up your own crossmember? Another thing, most billet wheel companies are made to order except for like centerlione and eagle. Most other name brands are built to order, there for being a flat rate.

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 06:02 PM

Well the way the the crossmember is bolted to the frame, the frame takes most of the load. You could always add some gussets. You seem to be getting worked up over this topic. I never said he has to do this, he asked and I gave him one of MANY options he has. Never did he say he was going to do it. But you seem to know all

and all the shops doing this mod obviously dont know what they are doing.

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 06:14 PM

bagged01extcab,

the easiest route I think would be a STOCK crossmember(thats for you Jaredm82

) then w/ a 2x4 custom frame and 4-linked rear. That should allow you to lay doors w/ no probs

Jaredm82 · 09-01-2005, 06:39 PM

haha

bagged01extcab · 09-01-2005, 10:13 PM

Didn't mean to start a war here! I was just thinking that by doing both a z and crossmember drop, I would have less problems, than with a large z. I'm going to be using tubular control arms, 3" drop spindles, and probably going to modify the upper spring pocket to allow the suspension to go up a little more. When I get all that done, I'll have to see how much more is need to lay on the size tire I want to run. I already plan on running electric fans and shaving the firewall (no heat/ac on firewall). Are there any other problems that I might run into with a Z?

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 10:31 PM

No war here, just good info. well most people that z there stock frame and keep the crossmember stock go from 3-4". Now you have to decide if you are making a new frame. If you are going to do that get your front suspension all built and set up then build the frame around it. I recommend using 4x2 tubing. After you get that done then cut off the rockers then lay your body on the frame and make new mounts. Sure theres more to it then that but you get the idea

el curioso · 09-01-2005, 10:38 PM

On IF Customs web page theres some ideas as to what your intrested in doing look at their build ups and get going from there. The write up on Matts truck is verry informative.

DM310 · 09-01-2005, 11:15 PM

except IF Customs narrows their crossmember which is a no no here.....

fastbagged68 · 09-02-2005, 11:42 AM

DM310 -My suburban should be running in a couple months....I am shooting to be driving it in November. My engine is going to be ran on the dyno next week. Then I got to bring my truck to my buddies shop to smooth the firewall and the rest of my engine compartment!

DM310 · 09-02-2005, 01:35 PM

cant wait....... any new pics? I am trying to get mine done some time before x-mas but we will see.

67Fleet · 09-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaredm82

how can a crossmember that is cut along it's vertical plane be as strong as one that is cut along it's lateral plane after welded back together? Come on lets be rational here. Anyways, if this guy wants to build a complete frame and cut his crossmember in half on both planes? then be my guest! If something is going to be that custom why not start from scratch and fab up your own crossmember? Another thing, most billet wheel companies are made to order except for like centerlione and eagle. Most other name brands are built to order, there for being a flat rate.

I agree on the integrity of the crossmember being compromised when it is cut up that much. But when did Eagle start making billet wheels? Aren't there's all forged?

Jaredm82 · 09-02-2005, 07:54 PM

I dunno, I know centerlines are forged. My point was that they arent made to order like other companies. They only come in 1 or 2 backspacings

08-30-2005, 11:20 PM	#1
bagged01extcab Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Longview tx Posts: 270	building my own frame, crossmember drop & z, or just z? I'm starting an 84 swb project. My plans are bagged and body dropped (maybe to the doors, but at least to the rocker - pinch weld) on a custom frame to lay on 22's. I have an extra frame and crossmember that I plan on using for the crossmember and mock up. I have been trying to figure out if I should just figure in enough "Z" and leave the crossmember stock, or do a combination of crossmember drop & "Z"? What's everyone's opinion on this? Thanks Trey __________________ Trey Oney

08-30-2005, 11:27 PM	#2
bagged_gmc Shaved Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vernon, Tx Posts: 115	Both! Don't just lay rocker, SLAM IT ON THE ROCKERS! __________________ 1969

08-31-2005, 10:52 PM	#4
bagged01extcab Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Longview tx Posts: 270	What happened to all of the "crossmember drop" gurrus? __________________ Trey Oney

09-01-2005, 12:07 AM	#6
DM310 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 256	if you are doing a custom frame (2x4 box tube) then just leave the crossmember stock. If you plan on laying door then do the custom frame. If you just want to lay rocker and thats all then use the stock frame. One thing you can do to the crossmember if you make a custom frame is narrow it......... take 3" out down the center of it. Reason for this is to be able to drive around slammed and be able to turn at the same time. Plus it will give you more of a selection of rims. __________________ 66 C10 (under construction) 1.5" crossmember drop 2" Z'ed frame 8" rear notch Watts-link Bagged DJM 3" spindles

09-01-2005, 12:15 PM	#10
Jaredm82 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ca Posts: 211	You dont need to make a U-turn with your truck on the ground. I get around just fine while on the ground with out making U-turns. If I happen to get the need to make a U-turn I simply air the front up just a bit, make my U-turn, put it back where it was, and Im on my merry little way. If U-Turns while extremely low are that important to you then go ahead and cut your crossmember in half, but I definetly dont think the outcome will be worth all the extra work that is needed to put your crossmember back together where it is as strong as it was before it was in 2 peices. I think the more rational alternative would be to get wheels made for your specific aplication. I'd say almost all billet wheel companies can give you atleast 6" of BS on a 8.5" wheel, most can do more. Last edited by Jaredm82; 09-01-2005 at 12:16 PM.

08-31-2005, 01:24 AM	#3
Jaredm82 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ca Posts: 211	if your making a frame why mess with cutting up your crossmember?

08-31-2005, 11:45 PM	#5
Jaredm82 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ca Posts: 211	Im right here man

09-01-2005, 12:23 AM	#8
Jaredm82 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ca Posts: 211	oh please, I can almost make a u turn with my truck on the ground and that is with those wheels that I got stuck with. If I got another .5" of BS I bet I could do it. Other than that I can make all the turns needed while driving my truck low with the very standard 5" BS on my wheels. Build your custom frame and put your crossmember where you want it. No need to section it too

09-01-2005, 02:57 PM	#12
fastbagged68 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tri Valley California Posts: 792	I'm right here. I haven't had time to post! I will be able to do a you turn with only turning the wheel a little bit.....and dragging frame! I will use my HP/TQ to whip my back end around!

09-01-2005, 04:02 PM	#13
DM310 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 256	thats what I am talking about Whens that thing going to be up and running? __________________ 66 C10 (under construction) 1.5" crossmember drop 2" Z'ed frame 8" rear notch Watts-link Bagged DJM 3" spindles

09-01-2005, 05:23 PM	#14
Jaredm82 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ca Posts: 211	how can a crossmember that is cut along it's vertical plane be as strong as one that is cut along it's lateral plane after welded back together? Come on lets be rational here. Anyways, if this guy wants to build a complete frame and cut his crossmember in half on both planes? then be my guest! If something is going to be that custom why not start from scratch and fab up your own crossmember? Another thing, most billet wheel companies are made to order except for like centerlione and eagle. Most other name brands are built to order, there for being a flat rate.

09-01-2005, 06:02 PM	#15
DM310 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 256	Well the way the the crossmember is bolted to the frame, the frame takes most of the load. You could always add some gussets. You seem to be getting worked up over this topic. I never said he has to do this, he asked and I gave him one of MANY options he has. Never did he say he was going to do it. But you seem to know all and all the shops doing this mod obviously dont know what they are doing. __________________ 66 C10 (under construction) 1.5" crossmember drop 2" Z'ed frame 8" rear notch Watts-link Bagged DJM 3" spindles

09-01-2005, 06:14 PM	#16
DM310 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 256	bagged01extcab, the easiest route I think would be a STOCK crossmember(thats for you Jaredm82 ) then w/ a 2x4 custom frame and 4-linked rear. That should allow you to lay doors w/ no probs __________________ 66 C10 (under construction) 1.5" crossmember drop 2" Z'ed frame 8" rear notch Watts-link Bagged DJM 3" spindles

09-01-2005, 06:39 PM	#17
Jaredm82 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ca Posts: 211	haha

09-01-2005, 10:13 PM	#18
bagged01extcab Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Longview tx Posts: 270	Didn't mean to start a war here! I was just thinking that by doing both a z and crossmember drop, I would have less problems, than with a large z. I'm going to be using tubular control arms, 3" drop spindles, and probably going to modify the upper spring pocket to allow the suspension to go up a little more. When I get all that done, I'll have to see how much more is need to lay on the size tire I want to run. I already plan on running electric fans and shaving the firewall (no heat/ac on firewall). Are there any other problems that I might run into with a Z? __________________ Trey Oney



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09-01-2005, 10:31 PM	#19
DM310 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 256	No war here, just good info. well most people that z there stock frame and keep the crossmember stock go from 3-4". Now you have to decide if you are making a new frame. If you are going to do that get your front suspension all built and set up then build the frame around it. I recommend using 4x2 tubing. After you get that done then cut off the rockers then lay your body on the frame and make new mounts. Sure theres more to it then that but you get the idea __________________ 66 C10 (under construction) 1.5" crossmember drop 2" Z'ed frame 8" rear notch Watts-link Bagged DJM 3" spindles Last edited by DM310; 09-01-2005 at 10:32 PM.

09-01-2005, 10:38 PM	#20
el curioso Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: El paso, Tx. Posts: 428	On IF Customs web page theres some ideas as to what your intrested in doing look at their build ups and get going from there. The write up on Matts truck is verry informative.

09-01-2005, 11:15 PM	#21
DM310 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 256	except IF Customs narrows their crossmember which is a no no here..... __________________ 66 C10 (under construction) 1.5" crossmember drop 2" Z'ed frame 8" rear notch Watts-link Bagged DJM 3" spindles

09-02-2005, 11:42 AM	#22
fastbagged68 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tri Valley California Posts: 792	DM310 -My suburban should be running in a couple months....I am shooting to be driving it in November. My engine is going to be ran on the dyno next week. Then I got to bring my truck to my buddies shop to smooth the firewall and the rest of my engine compartment!

09-02-2005, 01:35 PM	#23
DM310 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 256	cant wait....... any new pics? I am trying to get mine done some time before x-mas but we will see. __________________ 66 C10 (under construction) 1.5" crossmember drop 2" Z'ed frame 8" rear notch Watts-link Bagged DJM 3" spindles

09-02-2005, 07:54 PM	#25
Jaredm82 Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ca Posts: 211	I dunno, I know centerlines are forged. My point was that they arent made to order like other companies. They only come in 1 or 2 backspacings

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