Timing Problem - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

autobodyman2 · 10-31-2005, 01:02 PM

I have an 84 gmc with a 350. I am having trouble getting it timed. I have found top dead center, and pointed the rotor at the number 1 plug. I could drive it but it had no power. anyway i can time this with a light?

SlapFish · 10-31-2005, 04:40 PM

If you have access to a timing light, use it. I used my dad's on my '85 and it immediatly picked up life. If you don't have one, they aren't rediculously expensive and could prove useful if you do lots of engine work on older cars.

To use one, just hook it up to the battery and clamp the electric-magnetic field thingie onto the number one plug wire. Point it at the harmonic balancer and adjust it to the correct advance or retard setting. Yours should be 8 degrees advance.

piecesparts · 10-31-2005, 05:16 PM

In simple words "Get a Timing Light". If you have the money in your hand or an account at Sears, buy the unit they sell that has the timing advance feature on it. That way you can set the engine at the "TOTAL ADVANCE" mark, vice the initial timing setting. I have a somewhat "Built" 383 stroker in my 84 GMC and it is set at 36 degrees total timing and it works great. My son's 86 chevy 350 is set about the same. I gave up using the initial setting a long time ago. Do you have your computer still installed in your truck? If so you may have to unplug it to adjust your timing. Also you will HAVE to disconnect the vacuum line to the distributor so that you are not getting the vacuum advance involved in your setting. If you are going to set your timing with the initial setting then adjust your timing to 10 degrees BTDC (8 degrees is good, but 10 works better--12 is where I used to set mine)and then work from there to get a good response (without pinging). To set your carb idle screws (should do this when your are adjusting timing) hook up a vacuum gauge to the intake manifold and pick one screw and adjust all of the way to a closed position and then back out until the idle speed increases to it's maximum RPM, with the most vacuum you can acheive. Play with it until you see what you want. Once there adjust the screw back in an 1/8 of a turn and then adjust the other one the same way. With that done you should be close to an optimum timing adjustment.

autobodyman2 · 10-31-2005, 07:55 PM

problem number one is that i have no timing tab! its not there. I see the mark on the harmonic balancer but no tab to time it by. I want to drive this truck so bad and i havent been able too. Also, If anyone can give me a good pic of the electronic choke plug and tell me what color wire hooks up to it. I have no clue and i have no choke. Its a stock 4 barrel carb.
Thanks alot,

us111 · 10-31-2005, 08:39 PM

hello,,are you absolutely sure you are at TDC on the compression stroke??? probably are if it run's down the road but just a thought...to make sure if you have no help (or money) like me,lol,, take your #1 plug out,,plug the hole with toilet tissue and bump motor over little at a time,,when the paper blows out of hole that's as close to correct TDC you can get....just a thought

**swervin ervin** · 10-31-2005, 09:29 PM

No way in the world you are going to get it timed right with no pointer. Get a pointer and make sure you are at TDC on the compression stroke and go from there.

autobodyman2 · 10-31-2005, 09:30 PM

can anyone supply with a good pic of where this bolts on at? maybe i have one but i dont see it.

**swervin ervin** · 10-31-2005, 10:06 PM

Depends. Some, I know my stock 305 did, had the pointer made to the timing cover at the top. Now, with my 350 I used an 8" balancer and had to bolt the pointer on. It uses the timing cover bolts to hold it on. If bolted on, it would be at around 2:00 at the balancer.

Mike

SlapFish · 10-31-2005, 10:08 PM

My timing tab was absolutely hidden. You have to kind of get up on the fan shroud and look down...

piecesparts · 10-31-2005, 10:10 PM

Are yo absolutely sure there is no pointer? The mid 80s GM engines had two ways of timing, One with the pointer at approximately 1 o clock when you look at the engine from the front and another down past the water pump from the top of the block. It might be covered with paint and grease. Take a look and see if there isn't a small piece of metal sticking out above the harmonic balancer as you look past the back of the water pump and the front of the timing chain cover. If there is one, then get some emory cloth and carburetor cleaner and first wipe it down and then sand it till it is shiney. Next get some white or silver paint and fill the groove in the harmonic valancer so it can be seen easily.

**swervin ervin** · 10-31-2005, 10:12 PM

What's a valancer?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

benoit454 · 10-31-2005, 10:20 PM

I was just going to say that the stock 305's had some up top like at 12 o clock made on the timing cover with the probe tube on the right/drivers side. My 80 model 350 has the bolt on one i bought and put on. I am pretty sure it is the 2 bolt holes after the alignment pin that's on the block, like if you look on bottom there's one bolt, then go up and there's the pin, then another bolt, this bolt and the next one up hold it.

Here's a picture from when I dropped the motor in my monte carlo. I am pretty sure it's the 2nd and 3rd. bolt from bottom that holds it. If you look you can see the first bolt, then the pin, then 2nd bolt and on up.

piecesparts · 11-01-2005, 02:35 PM

Oh heck, valancer, balancer, dang round thing at the bottom.. If'n you don't know by now, you'll have to go to another school....

corn · 11-01-2005, 08:02 PM

You should be able to get it pretty close without the light. I do reccommend you time it with a light but heres how you can get it close enough to run right. Sinse you have it close enough to run, get it some what warmed up & with the distributor bolt somewhat snugged but not completely tight advance it by pulling the vacuum advance toward you a 1/2" at a time until it kicks back when trying to start. When you find the spot it kicks back, turn it back a hair at a time until it turns over ok again. Works every time for me. Like the rest said, it will be very hard to time it without a tab...corn

**swervin ervin** · 11-01-2005, 10:29 PM

To advance the timing, you rotate the distributor counter clockwise, or toward the brake booster.

autobodyman2 · 11-02-2005, 06:30 PM

I looked today on the timing cover and all around it. There is def no timing mark. This should be a pointer right? Its an 84 that originally came with a 305 but now has a 350 i was told, not sure from what year. Pics would be great!

us111 · 11-02-2005, 08:54 PM

humm,,thats interesting...i know my motor in my 76 is a 5.7 vortec out of a 99 caddy escalade and there is NO timing tab because you couldn't time them,,the computer done it....just a thought????

autobodyman2 · 11-02-2005, 09:01 PM

The motor is carbed. Im just highly doubting there is a computer

piecesparts · 11-02-2005, 09:06 PM

Take one LAST look and see if there is a flat piece of metal sticking out from the timing chain cover behind the water pump. That piece of metal, once it is cleaned up, should have a set of numbers on it. The actual pointer is the line on the harmonic balancer. If there is no tab on the timing cover, then you will have to purchase an aftermarket timing tab that bolts onto the timing chain cover. This is done with the bolts that holds the cover to the block. What you will need to know is what size harmonic balancer you have on the engine so that you get one that sets close to the rotating unit. I imagine some Shade Tree Specialist may have put an engine in and figured he could do it good enough to get by, then he found someone to buy the vehicle and got away from it. As directed before, find TDC on the #1 cylinder and ensure that it aligns with your new indicating piece, before it gets you frustrated more.

autobodyman2 · 11-02-2005, 09:17 PM

You have no clue how frustrated I am. can anyone please include a pic of this mark? the 350 was put in awhile ago. The thing is mint. also i need a pic of the plug that goes to the choke. There is a problem with dirt in the gas also, but im fixing that. Thanks for all your help guys.

**swervin ervin** · 11-02-2005, 09:37 PM

It sounds to me like you have a Goodwrench 350 replacement engine. These things come with two pointers, one for 8" balancers and one for 6-3/4" balancers. When you install the engine, you use the correct pointer for the balancer you decide to use since the engine doesn't come with one. I'm thinking whoever installed it didn't put a pointer on.

If this is indeed the case, measure your balancer and then buy the pointer made for the size you have. I'm just guessing here.

autobodyman2 · 11-02-2005, 11:02 PM

okay, now then, which bolt does it bolt onto on the timing cover?

us111 · 11-03-2005, 10:44 AM

sorry i didn't clarify better about the vortec,,mine is also now cabeurater,,no computer ,but there is no timing tab,,swervin is probably right though,,if you cant find it,someone didn't put it on,,or it could possibly be a setup like mine...may end up having to get motor id number's to see exactly what you are dealing with,,that's another option....

**swervin ervin** · 11-03-2005, 06:57 PM

The pointer for my 8" balancer bolts to the two bolts right above the locating dowel. I think the 6-3/4" balancer pointer goes in the same place. Here's a pic of mine if it helps you any.

Mike

83Diesel4x4 · 11-06-2005, 09:18 AM

If you have no pointer, you can time it with a vacuum gauge also, just an add on to what the others have chimed in

10-31-2005, 04:40 PM	#2
SlapFish Real Men Wear Orange Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 89	Re: Timing Problem If you have access to a timing light, use it. I used my dad's on my '85 and it immediatly picked up life. If you don't have one, they aren't rediculously expensive and could prove useful if you do lots of engine work on older cars. To use one, just hook it up to the battery and clamp the electric-magnetic field thingie onto the number one plug wire. Point it at the harmonic balancer and adjust it to the correct advance or retard setting. Yours should be 8 degrees advance. Last edited by SlapFish; 10-31-2005 at 04:49 PM.

10-31-2005, 05:16 PM	#3
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Re: Timing Problem In simple words "Get a Timing Light". If you have the money in your hand or an account at Sears, buy the unit they sell that has the timing advance feature on it. That way you can set the engine at the "TOTAL ADVANCE" mark, vice the initial timing setting. I have a somewhat "Built" 383 stroker in my 84 GMC and it is set at 36 degrees total timing and it works great. My son's 86 chevy 350 is set about the same. I gave up using the initial setting a long time ago. Do you have your computer still installed in your truck? If so you may have to unplug it to adjust your timing. Also you will HAVE to disconnect the vacuum line to the distributor so that you are not getting the vacuum advance involved in your setting. If you are going to set your timing with the initial setting then adjust your timing to 10 degrees BTDC (8 degrees is good, but 10 works better--12 is where I used to set mine)and then work from there to get a good response (without pinging). To set your carb idle screws (should do this when your are adjusting timing) hook up a vacuum gauge to the intake manifold and pick one screw and adjust all of the way to a closed position and then back out until the idle speed increases to it's maximum RPM, with the most vacuum you can acheive. Play with it until you see what you want. Once there adjust the screw back in an 1/8 of a turn and then adjust the other one the same way. With that done you should be close to an optimum timing adjustment.

10-31-2005, 07:55 PM	#4
autobodyman2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mansfield, Pa Posts: 74	Re: Timing Problem problem number one is that i have no timing tab! its not there. I see the mark on the harmonic balancer but no tab to time it by. I want to drive this truck so bad and i havent been able too. Also, If anyone can give me a good pic of the electronic choke plug and tell me what color wire hooks up to it. I have no clue and i have no choke. Its a stock 4 barrel carb. Thanks alot,

10-31-2005, 08:39 PM	#5
us111 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: ashland oh Posts: 660	Re: Timing Problem hello,,are you absolutely sure you are at TDC on the compression stroke??? probably are if it run's down the road but just a thought...to make sure if you have no help (or money) like me,lol,, take your #1 plug out,,plug the hole with toilet tissue and bump motor over little at a time,,when the paper blows out of hole that's as close to correct TDC you can get....just a thought

10-31-2005, 09:29 PM	#6
swervin ervin You get what you pay for Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Cherryville, NC Posts: 4,798	Re: Timing Problem No way in the world you are going to get it timed right with no pointer. Get a pointer and make sure you are at TDC on the compression stroke and go from there. __________________ Mike 1985 Chevy C-10

10-31-2005, 01:02 PM	#1
autobodyman2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mansfield, Pa Posts: 74	Timing Problem I have an 84 gmc with a 350. I am having trouble getting it timed. I have found top dead center, and pointed the rotor at the number 1 plug. I could drive it but it had no power. anyway i can time this with a light?

10-31-2005, 09:30 PM	#7
autobodyman2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mansfield, Pa Posts: 74	Re: Timing Problem can anyone supply with a good pic of where this bolts on at? maybe i have one but i dont see it.

10-31-2005, 10:06 PM	#8
swervin ervin You get what you pay for Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Cherryville, NC Posts: 4,798	Re: Timing Problem Depends. Some, I know my stock 305 did, had the pointer made to the timing cover at the top. Now, with my 350 I used an 8" balancer and had to bolt the pointer on. It uses the timing cover bolts to hold it on. If bolted on, it would be at around 2:00 at the balancer. Mike

10-31-2005, 10:08 PM	#9
SlapFish Real Men Wear Orange Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 89	Re: Timing Problem My timing tab was absolutely hidden. You have to kind of get up on the fan shroud and look down...

10-31-2005, 10:10 PM	#10
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Re: Timing Problem Are yo absolutely sure there is no pointer? The mid 80s GM engines had two ways of timing, One with the pointer at approximately 1 o clock when you look at the engine from the front and another down past the water pump from the top of the block. It might be covered with paint and grease. Take a look and see if there isn't a small piece of metal sticking out above the harmonic balancer as you look past the back of the water pump and the front of the timing chain cover. If there is one, then get some emory cloth and carburetor cleaner and first wipe it down and then sand it till it is shiney. Next get some white or silver paint and fill the groove in the harmonic valancer so it can be seen easily.

10-31-2005, 10:12 PM	#11
swervin ervin You get what you pay for Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Cherryville, NC Posts: 4,798	Re: Timing Problem What's a valancer? Sorry, couldn't resist.

10-31-2005, 10:20 PM	#12
benoit454 Chris Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Monaville, WV Posts: 3,737	Re: Timing Problem I was just going to say that the stock 305's had some up top like at 12 o clock made on the timing cover with the probe tube on the right/drivers side. My 80 model 350 has the bolt on one i bought and put on. I am pretty sure it is the 2 bolt holes after the alignment pin that's on the block, like if you look on bottom there's one bolt, then go up and there's the pin, then another bolt, this bolt and the next one up hold it. Here's a picture from when I dropped the motor in my monte carlo. I am pretty sure it's the 2nd and 3rd. bolt from bottom that holds it. If you look you can see the first bolt, then the pin, then 2nd bolt and on up. __________________ Chris GIT R DONE!!!!!! Check out all our rides, http://www.cardomain.com/id/benwa454

11-01-2005, 02:35 PM	#13
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Re: Timing Problem Oh heck, valancer, balancer, dang round thing at the bottom.. If'n you don't know by now, you'll have to go to another school....

11-01-2005, 08:02 PM	#14
corn Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: here Posts: 5,789	Re: Timing Problem You should be able to get it pretty close without the light. I do reccommend you time it with a light but heres how you can get it close enough to run right. Sinse you have it close enough to run, get it some what warmed up & with the distributor bolt somewhat snugged but not completely tight advance it by pulling the vacuum advance toward you a 1/2" at a time until it kicks back when trying to start. When you find the spot it kicks back, turn it back a hair at a time until it turns over ok again. Works every time for me. Like the rest said, it will be very hard to time it without a tab...corn

11-01-2005, 10:29 PM	#15
swervin ervin You get what you pay for Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Cherryville, NC Posts: 4,798	Re: Timing Problem To advance the timing, you rotate the distributor counter clockwise, or toward the brake booster. __________________ Mike 1985 Chevy C-10



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11-02-2005, 06:30 PM	#16
autobodyman2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mansfield, Pa Posts: 74	Re: Timing Problem I looked today on the timing cover and all around it. There is def no timing mark. This should be a pointer right? Its an 84 that originally came with a 305 but now has a 350 i was told, not sure from what year. Pics would be great!

11-02-2005, 08:54 PM	#17
us111 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: ashland oh Posts: 660	Re: Timing Problem humm,,thats interesting...i know my motor in my 76 is a 5.7 vortec out of a 99 caddy escalade and there is NO timing tab because you couldn't time them,,the computer done it....just a thought????

11-02-2005, 09:01 PM	#18
autobodyman2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mansfield, Pa Posts: 74	Re: Timing Problem The motor is carbed. Im just highly doubting there is a computer

11-02-2005, 09:06 PM	#19
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Re: Timing Problem Take one LAST look and see if there is a flat piece of metal sticking out from the timing chain cover behind the water pump. That piece of metal, once it is cleaned up, should have a set of numbers on it. The actual pointer is the line on the harmonic balancer. If there is no tab on the timing cover, then you will have to purchase an aftermarket timing tab that bolts onto the timing chain cover. This is done with the bolts that holds the cover to the block. What you will need to know is what size harmonic balancer you have on the engine so that you get one that sets close to the rotating unit. I imagine some Shade Tree Specialist may have put an engine in and figured he could do it good enough to get by, then he found someone to buy the vehicle and got away from it. As directed before, find TDC on the #1 cylinder and ensure that it aligns with your new indicating piece, before it gets you frustrated more.

11-02-2005, 09:17 PM	#20
autobodyman2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mansfield, Pa Posts: 74	Re: Timing Problem You have no clue how frustrated I am. can anyone please include a pic of this mark? the 350 was put in awhile ago. The thing is mint. also i need a pic of the plug that goes to the choke. There is a problem with dirt in the gas also, but im fixing that. Thanks for all your help guys.

11-02-2005, 09:37 PM	#21
swervin ervin You get what you pay for Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Cherryville, NC Posts: 4,798	Re: Timing Problem It sounds to me like you have a Goodwrench 350 replacement engine. These things come with two pointers, one for 8" balancers and one for 6-3/4" balancers. When you install the engine, you use the correct pointer for the balancer you decide to use since the engine doesn't come with one. I'm thinking whoever installed it didn't put a pointer on. If this is indeed the case, measure your balancer and then buy the pointer made for the size you have. I'm just guessing here.

11-02-2005, 11:02 PM	#22
autobodyman2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mansfield, Pa Posts: 74	Re: Timing Problem okay, now then, which bolt does it bolt onto on the timing cover?

11-03-2005, 10:44 AM	#23
us111 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: ashland oh Posts: 660	Re: Timing Problem sorry i didn't clarify better about the vortec,,mine is also now cabeurater,,no computer ,but there is no timing tab,,swervin is probably right though,,if you cant find it,someone didn't put it on,,or it could possibly be a setup like mine...may end up having to get motor id number's to see exactly what you are dealing with,,that's another option....

11-03-2005, 06:57 PM	#24
swervin ervin You get what you pay for Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Cherryville, NC Posts: 4,798	Re: Timing Problem The pointer for my 8" balancer bolts to the two bolts right above the locating dowel. I think the 6-3/4" balancer pointer goes in the same place. Here's a pic of mine if it helps you any. Mike Attached Images

11-06-2005, 09:18 AM	#25
83Diesel4x4 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Spokane Wa Posts: 20	Re: Timing Problem If you have no pointer, you can time it with a vacuum gauge also, just an add on to what the others have chimed in __________________ 83 'burban 6.2 diesel 4x4 33x10.5 BFG Mud Terrains

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