Oddball ID number

[FUNMUDDER]

My 68 GMC has got an odd serial number. I looked in the LMC truck catalog, and it didnt match up, and then to GMCPAuls and the same answer. The Number is KM200PB24015. Thats off the tag on the driverside cab post. Can anyone verify this? I'm think it is an odd number because of the 17" wheels, 305 V6 an factory tach.
JAKE

[roger0080]

Check the number again. I'm thinking it should be: KM20DPB54015 or like "KM20D PB54015" (space in there)

K = 4WD
M = V6
20 = 3/4
D = Fleet Side Box
P = Pontiac Michigan Plant
54015 = Seq. No; 4,015th built

[FUNMUDDER]

That sounds a lot better. I'll have to check tomorrow to be sure. Thanks Roger.

[LSGarage]

I got one for ya. My VIN is KM1590DKPC1226A on a '67 GMC 4x4, 1/2 ton, 305 V-6, 4-speed. I know it came with a 3 on the column but now has a NP top loader, 71 front axle with power disc brakes and PS. I've checked it against GMCPauls and can't get past the GVW rating.

I haven't been able to find any manuals on the engine either. Jim Carter Classic Truck parts has a water pump, carb. and I think fuel pump in their cataloge and website.

[chevy_fatman]

Originally Posted by LSGarage

Jim Carter Classic Truck parts has a water pump, carb. and I think fuel pump in their cataloge and website.

Last time I checked on my local auto parts store I could get an entire long block to replace my 305 V-6, I think it was more $$ than a small block tough, that was after I got tired of hearing the chump at the counter tell me that there never was a 305 V-6 manufactured in 1969 in a GMC, I got the manager and told him exactly what to look for and what to type in his computer, now if that chump had kept his word on the bet I had with him to prove him that I had a 305 V-6 in my truck, I'd be $100 richer now and he'd be

[Rod]

Roger0800 pretty much nailed the first vin..well maybe a mistake or 2 after looking again


KM20DPB54015

K = 4WD
M = V6
2 = 3/4
0D = Fleet Side Box
P = Pontiac Michigan Plant
B=1968
54015 = Seq. No; 4,015th built




KM1590DKPC1226A

K= 4x4
M = V6
1 = 1/2 ton
59= decodes from axle to rear of cab dimension of 54 inches..so its a long wheel base
OD = fleetside box

P = Pontiac assembly plant
C = 1967
1226 = 226th unit built
A= GVW range 6000 lbs & less


What that K in the middle means between the D and P ..well guessing here... refers to number of cylinders in engine in this case 6 or a mistake.

Like I've said before GMC vins decode differently even between assembly plants. Hard to make a decoder for them.

[LSGarage]

Thanks for the VIN decode Rod. I can take it from here. I've been able to learn that my truck was purchased 8-24-67 from a dealer in Buck, PA by a Harrisburg resident. It's 2nd owner lived in Chambersburg who sold it to the 3rd owner also in Chambersburg. I bought it from him in August. And its kinda funny. . . I'm going to move to Mechanicsburg, PA this coming May when I retire, 12 miles from the original owner.

[FUNMUDDER]

Roger was right. Exact number and all.

[Rod]

He was close like I said...but look...he missed the letter B to refer to the year..and he listed 20 as the code for 3/4 ton but it should be 2 and the box types in this style are listed as OD not O as he listed.
He probably just did a typo.
I'm sure he knows...but if he didnt fix it then it could be assumed correct for others to attempt to decode that way. Roger0080 has some good information books too, we've chatted.
Unless your saying that he was correct in the OD instead of the 00...well yep he knew that. Pretty much in this style truck it has to be OD or OC to be a pickup.

[roger0080]

Yup. I missed posting the year "B" code.

Rod, I am correct on the series and body as being "20" and "D" not "2" and "0D" as you claim. Here's why:

*When* the VIN has the complete model number in it (like it is for 1967's) "CS1590DPC1227A" it decodes as a true Model number decode: "1" is the series code and "0D" is the body code which we all know.

But, when when GMC changed to stripped/condensed/abbrieviated Model number in the VIN for 1968 as the OP has it: "KM20DPB54015" (not the full model number, not containing the Cab to Axle code), then the series code really is "20" and the body code is "D".

ie:
1967: CM2590DPC1001A Series = 2, Body = 0D (full Model number)
1968: CM20DPB10001 Series = 20, Body = D (shortend Model number)
1968: CM20DPA10001 Series = 20, Body = D
1970: CE134ZZ54321 Series = 1, Body = 34
1971: CE134Z154321 Series = 1, Body = 34
1972: TCS142F123456 Series = 1, Body = 4 Like Chevrolet does

References on this is:
1967, 1968, 1969, 1971 GMC Truck Service Manuals. Manuals X-6732, X-6832, X-6932, X-7132, X-7232. I missing the 1970 manual, but saw your post over thread number 178956 for 1970.

Not to nit pick but you generally miss explaing the dash or in this case the second K in LSGarage's VIN KM1590DKPC1226A. That second K, is the State Certification code. When the K is present, the truck has the Z55K option on it. If it is a dash (or space in earlier years) which is the norm, then no State Certification applies. Z55K only applied to Pennsylvannia trucks. There is also and RPO for the 2Ton trucks. The Dealer Data books cover that and the Blue Factory Assembly manual only references this.

****LSGarage, could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post your glove box option sticker!!!? I have been watching and watching and watching for years for a VIN on here and on e-bay that has that Z55K option on it! Could you please check the option sticker and see if it has that option on it? Or email me roger0080@netscape.net. Thanks man!!!! You have the rarest of all VIN's I know of with that 2nd K in it.

Hope this all helps everyone. I know Rod wants to report factual information and I do too. I do believe I am correct on this. It's late and I hope I rambled correctly!

[roger0080]

Originally Posted by LSGarage

... I've been able to learn that my truck was purchased 8-24-67 from a dealer in Buck, PA by a Harrisburg resident.

Which would jive with the Z55K/Pennsylvannia RPO option!

[69TowRig]

How are y'all getting the "back info" on your trucks? Supposedly mine was a US Immigration Services border patrol vehicle in the beginning, and has had a few owners since that time. I'd love to know more about the truck.

[Rod]

I dont have any for GMC Data Books or and 67-69 GMC Service manuals actually. I had not known anyone here yet to say that GMC changed to stripped/condensed/abbrieviated Model number in the VIN for 1968 and made changed in series identification to 20 for a 3/4 ton instead of 2.
Hmm interesting...kinda would like to have a 67-69 GMC book right now...but I do have the 1967 GMC Canadian Shop Manual PSD 53-130.
Now its version of how to decode 67 GMC vins is still different. More than one way to decode them...I'll say it again.
I'll scan bit of it here.



I never knew of the space being for state certification code in LSGarages vin..thanks for that.
I was looking at older serial numbers for ways that they decode and in that space in 1966 vins for example they put the number of cylinders the engine has..I did say I was guessing in my reply earlier

Good post reply there Roger0080. I'll send you an email too.

[roger0080]

Rod, here is a picture that someone on this board has posted in the past for 68-69 GMC VINs. I do not recall who it was but I am reposting their picture here. It came out of a manual different from mine, but the picture is almost identical.

In reference to your last picture of C9S107047P100025,I have that same example in some Canadian 910-960 shop manual for 1968 (with a 1968 VIN year! typo?), but I have never seen the Canadian GMC's posted here or on ebay at all like that example. 1967 &1968 Oshawa GMC VINs have all been C9S1471100001 format so I wonder *if* that C9S107047P100025 format ever made it into production use but only into the manuals? Kind of like the manuals where printed and then engineering changed their mind as to the format? Me thinks that.

The Canadian Parts books (most intersting of the bunch) makes mention to a "NOTE: V.I.N Block contains abbreviated model designation and complete serial number." With some examples broken down for both Chevrolet and GMC VINs. It also covers 62-66 VINs -- thus the suffix of A,B,C... etc is covered. The 71 GMC Service manual makes a reference to that lingo as well but it doesn't make sense in the way they word it for GMC Models. Only on a Chevrolet Model number would the "how-to" work right. Hmmm. Another funky misprint me thinks.

I have yet to find any GM manuals covering 1967 GMC VIN as like CM2590DPC1001B with a break down of it or explaining it. It's like nonexistant in the literature. *sigh*. The 1967 GMC Shop manual only covers the Model breakdown that's it. No VIN info stuf..

BTW, I owe 90% of my GMC VIN Knowlegde to you Rod for all the replies to peoples posting here on the board that you've done over the years. Thanks. I only had to dig for the other 9%. Still missing that 1%.

-Roger

[Rod]

You have any other sources that show vins with the 20 decoding to the gvw range..Thats probably the only one I've seen.

Pauls vin decode , well model decode shows the box type listed as OD.

So I assume the box types are done the same way in the vin.

I have done some assuming in the vin decodes I do also..but it seems the only way it works. A couple books that show cab to axle dimensions in model numbers decodes into the vins. When I post the replys I dont think I've been wrong in what type truck it is ..as in long box or short box... and GMC or Chev can be determined by the cab to axle designation numbers.

KM1590DKPC1226A would be a GMC while a vin of KM1090DKPC1226A would be a Chev, both having the same wheel base for example. Both having a cab to rear axle dimesion of 54 inches.

I agree that there must have been some engineering versions that maybe made print but not assmbly line. I've never seen a GMC vin like the scan I posted from the 67 GMC Shop manual.
My 67 GMC owners manual shows the vin decoding example using number
C9S1090371100025 from a Sept 1966 Oshawa printed first edition.

[Rod]

You see where it says P for the assembly plant but dosen't list a plant by that name in the lower examples in the pic you posted of the 68-69 GMC vins..strange eh. Why is Pontiac not listed?

[Rod]

Ok this state code thing got me looking and I found more info on that.

Not only does Pennsylvania have a state code option of K= Z55 but also T = Z74.

It's in that space in the middle of the vin up to 1970. In 1971 it becomes a prefix code...so you could have a vin start KKMS141******or TKMS141****** It can appear that way in GMC and Chev vins from what I read today.

Not to be confused with the 72 GMC vins that start with a prefix of T to identify GMC. So I would assume you could have a 72 GMC vin of TTKE242F123456 this example being a 1972 GMC 3/4 ton 4x4 box type truck made in Flint with Pennsylvania state certification.
Another find was that in 1970 they could have used a Z for 1970 GMC vins..that I have listed before...but a book I read today said it was used in 1/2 tons . It said 3/4 and 1 tons used an A not a Z.

Maybe this will interest Roger0080 at least if no one else. lol
You mention earlier that there is an rpo for the 2 ton..is that the T=Z74 if so them my T version in a 3/4 ton is wrong and should have been
KTKE242F123456 which it could be.

[roger0080]

What happend to my picture I posted? It's not showing tonight. Did it get lost when I went back and edited the post?

"20" vs. "D" sources: 1968 & 1969 GMC Service manuals (pictures), 1969 GMC Part Book X-169001 (example and explanation), 1972 GMC Parts Book X-172001 (example and explanation),
X-171009 GMC Part Book for 2T trucks (example and explanation); That's 5 manuals. Trust me ye of little faith!

GMC Pauls is wrong...

Yeah know, it is a *technicallity*. No matter how one decodes it, techinically correct, or blisfully ignorant, you end up with the same thing: a 3/4T fleetside pickup! But it would be nice to set the record straight for the history books.

I don't believe Chevrolet ever code a real-life VIN like KM1090DKPC1226A where the FULL Model number is included. Did you copy that from something? For USA and Canada, they have always been like CS147Z10001 and CS147110001. Do you have any pictures or manuals like showing that for Chevrolet??? That's what the Parts Books are showing.

Yeah I've got that same 67 Canadian 910-930 Owners Manual also showing that also. The 1968 910-930 lists it as the same, but the ones that have been posted on the board have been like C9S147110001! The Oshawa Parts Book lists it like that also. I conclude based on the boards pictures and the Oshawa Parts book that the drivers manual example is bogus. I mean it's in the manual, but not ever in real life.

Heh! I didn't catch that with the P. Looking in the books here the 1968 lists the P while the 1969 manual doesn't! Oooops! Human errors. Heck after reading and re-reading my posts before submitting them, I don't even know what I wrote sometimes!

The "T" code is for New York 2Tons (IIRC w/o looking it up).

About that prefix code, I saw that in the Blue Assembly manual also, but me thinks that is more of "stuff" that never made it into production use. All the 1970 VINs on the board and ebay ALWAYS have it in the middle of the VIN. One of those prefixes is for a P step van model IIRC. I thought about that too for 1972 VINs. I don't think it ever hit the streets like that. I take that style with a grain of salt.

I saw that also about the 1970 use of A & Z for half-ton/three-quarter ton stuff and it makes me scratch my head, sigh and say ughhhh. That takes a lot of time to verify on ebay or on the board!!!!! It could be true.

I will repost the picture again for others.

Does your ORIGINAL factory assembly manual cover anything about the VIN? Mine doesn't.


-Roger

[roger0080]

In one of those over-priced Dealer Data books I bought, in the back was a pamphlet from 1966 for the State of Pennsylvannia talking about that Z55K RPO option and the required RPO's required to obtain the "K" rating. I just about fell over when I saw that! It's the best describing it.

There is another RPO option Z18 (IIRC) that I cannot find anything about.

[roger0080]

FWIW, the 1971 Canadian Owners Manual lists the VIN example as _CS131F110025 where the _ is reserved for State Certification. So much contradiction in the manuals vs. real life. All ebay ones have been CS131-F110025 style.

[Rod]

In the original assembly manual it's suppose to be on pages B8 and B9 in section UPC O, right at the beginning..I have it listed in my index..but I dont have the page in my original assembly manual. I do have the B8 and B9 pages in the typical reprint assembly manual...about 3/4 inch from the back it lists a variety if vin decode pages there...but nothing 67 or 68 like the styles were talking. It does say on the page that option Z74 is a Pennsylvania thing like the Z55. The option exist..but they're not listed in an option list in any of my books.....must be like the Canadian Equipped option I figure...just specific combination of options to make it comply with some state or federal compliance.
I dont know what happened to your original posted pic ...is it linked from elsewhere and not board hosted?

[roger0080]

LSGarage, I sent ya a PM.

[Longhorn Man]

Since I can't remember all this stuff, at least my picture is being used.
That pic is from my 69 GMC owners manual.

[roger0080]

I was wondering if that was yours!!!!!!!!!

What manual did it come from? It's not the Repair manual X-6832 I see.