Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

**BOSS** · 02-19-2006, 07:50 PM

Hey guys,i cant get my TC into four low on the 205 is there a way to adjust the shifter?Also when it is in four high and the lockouts are locked just the back wheels are turning.i can hear a rumble in the front end when i do have it lock in so i am thinking maybe the lockouts?But the fact that it is not going into four low has also got me stumbled.any advice on things i can try to find out what it is?this is my work truck and only running truck i have so i need to get it running quick,thanx for all of your help........James

Russell · 02-19-2006, 08:25 PM

205 is a pretty dang tough t-case... Doubt you broke anything interallly. You take a look at the shifter to make sure that nothing is jammed up, bent or whatever? There is no real adjustment in the 205 I've got in my truck...

4x4Poet · 02-19-2006, 08:56 PM

Remove the transfer case boot so you can see the front driveshaft and try some "process of elimination" troubleshooting:

1. Lock the front hubs, place the 205 in 2wd and drive the truck to see if the front driveshaft spins at high speed to verify that the front hubs did indeed lock the front drivetrain to the hubs/wheels. If the driveshaft spins slowly under no load then you know there's some problem up front since the 205 was in 2wd and couldn't engage the front driveline, yet the hubs should have locked the axles to the hub/wheels thereby forcing the front driveline to move commensurate with road speed.

2. Stop, unlock the locking hubs (move to "Free") and drive again with the 205 shifter in 2wd. The front driveshaft should only rotate slowly because of the oil churning in the 205. Definitely not high speed under torque.

3. Stop, then, keeping the hubs in "Free", engage the 205 in 4wd-HI. Drive again to see if the front driveshaft spins the same speed as the rear driveshaft. IOW, high speed under load from the engine but not connected to the road via the front hubs/wheels since the hubs are unlocked. This will tell you if the 205 is not shifting into 4wd properly. After stopping again, you can make the same test in 4wd-LO.

4. Check if the shifter hits the hump sheetmetal which might prevent the 205 from being totally engaged. This is usually only a 4wd-LO problem since the shifter goes all the way back to engage 4wd-LO and can hit the sheetmetal if not set up right underneath or if the wrong hump was installed or drivetrain lenght changes were made.

5. Check what position the shifter rails are in at the transfer case. If you move the shifter one position at a time from 2wd to 4wd-LO, you'll gain an idea of when one or the other shifter rail should be pushed all the way in, pulled all the way out, or somewhere inbetween. Check if you have good, thick cotter pins in the two shifter linkage points. Thick cotter pins are needed to take up the slack within the large holes thru the linkage pins. Less slack = less slop.

6. I'm out!

**BOSS** · 02-19-2006, 09:17 PM

I have taken the "hump" off, it looks like the driveshaft is turning on 4-Hi with the hubs locked or unlocked. It does sound like there is a grinding on the front end, just the back wheels are spinning. And when I try to put it in 4-LO: Nothing. I can hear the transmission spinning, but it doesn't move at all. Can I take the shifter off and put it in manually by pushing both pins in? Thanks for the help so far, it gives me something to try tomorrow.

**special-K** · 02-19-2006, 11:42 PM

Everything will turn with the t-case in 4-Hi or Lo all the way to your hubs.It`s the hubs that will engage or disengage the wheels from the rest of the system.You probably need to remove the l/o caps and see if the split-pin is in good shape that runs across from one side of the plastic knob to the other.If those look ok,put them back on,you`ll need to go farther.Jack up one side and see if you can turn the wheel and the axle & d-shaft spin with it locked in.I`m assuming you don`t have a posi/limited slip.Stick a large screwdriver in the yoke of the axle u-joint to keep from spinning and try to spin the wheel(in lock).If this keeps the wheel from spinning,you`re good on that side at the hub.Try the same on the other side.If the same result,it`s either a problem in the diff or t-case.Put a rod or something in the d-shaft yoke and let it hit the ground or frame to keep it from turning.you can free spin all this with the hubs free and the t-case in neutral.Again,with one wheel up,locked-in,and rod keeping the d-shaft from turning,try to turn the wheel.If there`s a problem in your differential it will turn,slip,or make a noise from parts moving that should be engaged.If you have positive engagement,then your diff is ok.

4x4Poet · 02-19-2006, 11:53 PM

Nice advanced supplemental to my lowly basics, special-K.

ckhd · 02-20-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSS

I have taken the "hump" off, it looks like the driveshaft is turning on 4-Hi with the hubs locked or unlocked. It does sound like there is a grinding on the front end, just the back wheels are spinning. And when I try to put it in 4-LO: Nothing. I can hear the transmission spinning, but it doesn't move at all. Can I take the shifter off and put it in manually by pushing both pins in? Thanks for the help so far, it gives me something to try tomorrow.

Let me make sure I have this straight -- you don't get any forward (or reverse) movement in 4-lo? And when you put it in 2 hi with the hubs unlocked, what happens?

My primary thought is that there is too much slop. Either slop in the pins, or slop in the pivot. Sounds to me like slop in the pivot. Especially if I am reading it right and 4-lo is neutral, and 2-hi is really 4-hi.

What I suggest that you do, especially since you have the hump off, is to watch what the two rails are supposed to do while you shift, and then when you get it in 4-lo, reach down and give the rails an extra nudge. I don't remember which way does what, but if the shifter is trying to pull it out, grab it and give it an extra pull. If it's trying to push it it, grab it and give it an extra push. Sounds to me like the slop is not moving the rails all the way. If 2-hi is acting like 4-hi, do the same thing with 2-hi. Make sure you give BOTH rails an extra nudge.

I have had similar problems with some of mine. The T-221 in my '69 seems more sensitive than the 205s in my '68 and my '72, but slop will still do it to a 205.

**BOSS** · 02-20-2006, 09:21 AM

When i put it in 2 high i have 2 high(just the back wheels turn) When i put it in 4 high same thing just the back wheels turn.Neutral is neutral,and when i put it in 4 low it also acts like neutral.I hear nothing in the front when i am in 2 high(driving)some vibration and once in awhile some grinding when in 4 high.and nothing seems to work in 4 low

wedgemon · 02-20-2006, 11:48 AM

Thought I lost my case recently as well. Nope, Just managed to spin the splines off inside the slip joing on the front drive shaft. Makes kind of a burring, light grinding noise.

Look into that.

- Dave

GruntyPants · 02-20-2006, 11:50 AM

Something I tried while troubleshooting a '94 Z-71, was to put the whole truck up on jackstands, yes all four wheels up in the air. Do it right and be careful, then shake the sh1t out of it to make sure it won't fall off the stands. Keep the hubs unlocked and shift into 4-lo, check to see if the front driveshaft is spinning with the rear. If it is, then the xfer case should be fine, and you may want to take a look at your front diff. If it isn't then you know you have an issue with either the shifter not properly engaging the front shaft, or something broken (unlikely).
My guess is that the locking hubs are damaged, or at least one of them is and its just working the differential when under power. If you had that much broken in the front diff, it would likely lock up pretty quick... same goes with the xfer case.
Let us know how it goes..

**BOSS** · 02-20-2006, 01:14 PM

What i have done so far today is,i got the front up on stands locked the hubs and when i turn one side i can feel and hear a slipping noise (kind of light grinding)the driveshaft does turn with the front,if i lock the driveshaft you cant turn the wheels.nothing happens in four low(checked the shifter and even tried it by hand)next step is to raise the whole truck and see what i can get out of it,keep the ideas coming(i am still broke down at home..lol)Thanx everyone for the help!!!

**BOSS** · 02-20-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by special-K

Everything will turn with the t-case in 4-Hi or Lo all the way to your hubs.It`s the hubs that will engage or disengage the wheels from the rest of the system.You probably need to remove the l/o caps and see if the split-pin is in good shape that runs across from one side of the plastic knob to the other.If those look ok,put them back on,you`ll need to go farther.Jack up one side and see if you can turn the wheel and the axle & d-shaft spin with it locked in.I`m assuming you don`t have a posi/limited slip.Stick a large screwdriver in the yoke of the axle u-joint to keep from spinning and try to spin the wheel(in lock).If this keeps the wheel from spinning,you`re good on that side at the hub.Try the same on the other side.If the same result,it`s either a problem in the diff or t-case.Put a rod or something in the d-shaft yoke and let it hit the ground or frame to keep it from turning.you can free spin all this with the hubs free and the t-case in neutral.Again,with one wheel up,locked-in,and rod keeping the d-shaft from turning,try to turn the wheel.If there`s a problem in your differential it will turn,slip,or make a noise from parts moving that should be engaged.If you have positive engagement,then your diff is ok.

I have locked the yoke at the wheels and they will not turn,so my hubs are ok?if i lock up the driveshaft the wheels wont turn,so the front is ok?when i hold one side and turn the other(both locked in)i get a clicking noise but the driveshaft turns.what should i try next?thanx!!!!! you all are a BIG help!!

**BOSS** · 02-20-2006, 01:43 PM

Also does anyone know what TC came in a stock 86 burb or a 84 blazer?i have two of them for parts and hopeing i might get lucky.

**BOSS** · 02-20-2006, 02:22 PM

Ok guys,i believe it is the TC now.I put the whole truck on stands,and no matter where i put it 2 high or 4 high all i get is the back tires turning.i have taken off the hump where i can see the front driveshaft and it doesnt try to turn at all,even in 4 low or 4 high,so i guess it is the TC.Anyone know of any rebuild kits or for that matter how to even do it....lol.Any other ideas?I do really think you all for trying to help me get it running!!!

4x4Poet · 02-21-2006, 02:56 AM

I found an NP205 rebuild kit at my local bearing sales for $125. Novak has them, too.

There were some sites that detailed the NP205 rebuild. Lemme see...

http://www.okcnetworks.com/bronco/205/np1.htm

See if that works. I can't get the photos to work with my mac.

**BOSS** · 02-25-2006, 06:57 PM

Yeperrs it is the TC,got it out and the main gears you see when the inspection cover is off are ground down to just about nothing,i was able to get another 205 from skii and sassy(GREAT PEOPLE!!!!!) now i just have to either find a different yoke for the fron or get another driveshaft.thanx everyone for there help!!!

02-19-2006, 07:50 PM	#1
BOSS Just here to help Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norwood,Mo Posts: 3,893	Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive Hey guys,i cant get my TC into four low on the 205 is there a way to adjust the shifter?Also when it is in four high and the lockouts are locked just the back wheels are turning.i can hear a rumble in the front end when i do have it lock in so i am thinking maybe the lockouts?But the fact that it is not going into four low has also got me stumbled.any advice on things i can try to find out what it is?this is my work truck and only running truck i have so i need to get it running quick,thanx for all of your help........James __________________ Support our site Norwood Survivor

02-19-2006, 08:25 PM	#2
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive 205 is a pretty dang tough t-case... Doubt you broke anything interallly. You take a look at the shifter to make sure that nothing is jammed up, bent or whatever? There is no real adjustment in the 205 I've got in my truck... __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

02-19-2006, 08:56 PM	#3
4x4Poet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: "Under Montana skies." Posts: 1,836	Remove the transfer case boot so you can see the front driveshaft and try some "process of elimination" troubleshooting: 1. Lock the front hubs, place the 205 in 2wd and drive the truck to see if the front driveshaft spins at high speed to verify that the front hubs did indeed lock the front drivetrain to the hubs/wheels. If the driveshaft spins slowly under no load then you know there's some problem up front since the 205 was in 2wd and couldn't engage the front driveline, yet the hubs should have locked the axles to the hub/wheels thereby forcing the front driveline to move commensurate with road speed. 2. Stop, unlock the locking hubs (move to "Free") and drive again with the 205 shifter in 2wd. The front driveshaft should only rotate slowly because of the oil churning in the 205. Definitely not high speed under torque. 3. Stop, then, keeping the hubs in "Free", engage the 205 in 4wd-HI. Drive again to see if the front driveshaft spins the same speed as the rear driveshaft. IOW, high speed under load from the engine but not connected to the road via the front hubs/wheels since the hubs are unlocked. This will tell you if the 205 is not shifting into 4wd properly. After stopping again, you can make the same test in 4wd-LO. 4. Check if the shifter hits the hump sheetmetal which might prevent the 205 from being totally engaged. This is usually only a 4wd-LO problem since the shifter goes all the way back to engage 4wd-LO and can hit the sheetmetal if not set up right underneath or if the wrong hump was installed or drivetrain lenght changes were made. 5. Check what position the shifter rails are in at the transfer case. If you move the shifter one position at a time from 2wd to 4wd-LO, you'll gain an idea of when one or the other shifter rail should be pushed all the way in, pulled all the way out, or somewhere inbetween. Check if you have good, thick cotter pins in the two shifter linkage points. Thick cotter pins are needed to take up the slack within the large holes thru the linkage pins. Less slack = less slop. 6. I'm out! __________________ '71 GMC K20 Suburban, '71 GMC K10 Suburban, '72 Chevy C10 CST Suburban, '72 Chevy K20 clunker pickup.

02-19-2006, 09:17 PM	#4
BOSS Just here to help Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norwood,Mo Posts: 3,893	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive I have taken the "hump" off, it looks like the driveshaft is turning on 4-Hi with the hubs locked or unlocked. It does sound like there is a grinding on the front end, just the back wheels are spinning. And when I try to put it in 4-LO: Nothing. I can hear the transmission spinning, but it doesn't move at all. Can I take the shifter off and put it in manually by pushing both pins in? Thanks for the help so far, it gives me something to try tomorrow. __________________ Support our site Norwood Survivor

02-19-2006, 11:42 PM	#5
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,863	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive Everything will turn with the t-case in 4-Hi or Lo all the way to your hubs.It`s the hubs that will engage or disengage the wheels from the rest of the system.You probably need to remove the l/o caps and see if the split-pin is in good shape that runs across from one side of the plastic knob to the other.If those look ok,put them back on,you`ll need to go farther.Jack up one side and see if you can turn the wheel and the axle & d-shaft spin with it locked in.I`m assuming you don`t have a posi/limited slip.Stick a large screwdriver in the yoke of the axle u-joint to keep from spinning and try to spin the wheel(in lock).If this keeps the wheel from spinning,you`re good on that side at the hub.Try the same on the other side.If the same result,it`s either a problem in the diff or t-case.Put a rod or something in the d-shaft yoke and let it hit the ground or frame to keep it from turning.you can free spin all this with the hubs free and the t-case in neutral.Again,with one wheel up,locked-in,and rod keeping the d-shaft from turning,try to turn the wheel.If there`s a problem in your differential it will turn,slip,or make a noise from parts moving that should be engaged.If you have positive engagement,then your diff is ok. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

02-19-2006, 11:53 PM	#6
4x4Poet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: "Under Montana skies." Posts: 1,836	Nice advanced supplemental to my lowly basics, special-K. __________________ '71 GMC K20 Suburban, '71 GMC K10 Suburban, '72 Chevy C10 CST Suburban, '72 Chevy K20 clunker pickup.

02-20-2006, 09:21 AM	#8
BOSS Just here to help Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norwood,Mo Posts: 3,893	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive When i put it in 2 high i have 2 high(just the back wheels turn) When i put it in 4 high same thing just the back wheels turn.Neutral is neutral,and when i put it in 4 low it also acts like neutral.I hear nothing in the front when i am in 2 high(driving)some vibration and once in awhile some grinding when in 4 high.and nothing seems to work in 4 low __________________ Support our site Norwood Survivor

02-20-2006, 11:48 AM	#9
wedgemon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Spanish Springs, NV Posts: 1,171	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive Thought I lost my case recently as well. Nope, Just managed to spin the splines off inside the slip joing on the front drive shaft. Makes kind of a burring, light grinding noise. Look into that. - Dave __________________ 2003 Silverado K1500 Z71 - Arrival Blue 1973 K5 Cheyenne Blazer 350/TH350/NP203 Kids Trucks:92 K1500 Blazer 5.7/700R4 4" lift. RETIRED: 1980 Scottsdale 4x4 Founding Member: "TILT WHEEL BELLY." Club

02-20-2006, 11:50 AM	#10
GruntyPants Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kennesaw GA Posts: 95	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive Something I tried while troubleshooting a '94 Z-71, was to put the whole truck up on jackstands, yes all four wheels up in the air. Do it right and be careful, then shake the sh1t out of it to make sure it won't fall off the stands. Keep the hubs unlocked and shift into 4-lo, check to see if the front driveshaft is spinning with the rear. If it is, then the xfer case should be fine, and you may want to take a look at your front diff. If it isn't then you know you have an issue with either the shifter not properly engaging the front shaft, or something broken (unlikely). My guess is that the locking hubs are damaged, or at least one of them is and its just working the differential when under power. If you had that much broken in the front diff, it would likely lock up pretty quick... same goes with the xfer case. Let us know how it goes.. __________________ -- Shawn '67 Short Step '70 Short Wide

02-20-2006, 01:14 PM	#11
BOSS Just here to help Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norwood,Mo Posts: 3,893	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive What i have done so far today is,i got the front up on stands locked the hubs and when i turn one side i can feel and hear a slipping noise (kind of light grinding)the driveshaft does turn with the front,if i lock the driveshaft you cant turn the wheels.nothing happens in four low(checked the shifter and even tried it by hand)next step is to raise the whole truck and see what i can get out of it,keep the ideas coming(i am still broke down at home..lol)Thanx everyone for the help!!! __________________ Support our site Norwood Survivor

02-20-2006, 01:43 PM	#13
BOSS Just here to help Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norwood,Mo Posts: 3,893	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive Also does anyone know what TC came in a stock 86 burb or a 84 blazer?i have two of them for parts and hopeing i might get lucky. __________________ Support our site Norwood Survivor

02-20-2006, 02:22 PM	#14
BOSS Just here to help Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norwood,Mo Posts: 3,893	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive Ok guys,i believe it is the TC now.I put the whole truck on stands,and no matter where i put it 2 high or 4 high all i get is the back tires turning.i have taken off the hump where i can see the front driveshaft and it doesnt try to turn at all,even in 4 low or 4 high,so i guess it is the TC.Anyone know of any rebuild kits or for that matter how to even do it....lol.Any other ideas?I do really think you all for trying to help me get it running!!! __________________ Support our site Norwood Survivor

02-21-2006, 02:56 AM	#15
4x4Poet Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: "Under Montana skies." Posts: 1,836	I found an NP205 rebuild kit at my local bearing sales for $125. Novak has them, too. There were some sites that detailed the NP205 rebuild. Lemme see... http://www.okcnetworks.com/bronco/205/np1.htm See if that works. I can't get the photos to work with my mac. __________________ '71 GMC K20 Suburban, '71 GMC K10 Suburban, '72 Chevy C10 CST Suburban, '72 Chevy K20 clunker pickup.

02-25-2006, 06:57 PM	#16
BOSS Just here to help Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norwood,Mo Posts: 3,893	Re: Help please,i lost 4 wheel drive Yeperrs it is the TC,got it out and the main gears you see when the inspection cover is off are ground down to just about nothing,i was able to get another 205 from skii and sassy(GREAT PEOPLE!!!!!) now i just have to either find a different yoke for the fron or get another driveshaft.thanx everyone for there help!!! __________________ Support our site Norwood Survivor



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