A/C Advice. factory or not?

[cstanley]

i currently have a fully functional (albeit empty) factory a/c in the truck, but was wondering if it's worth installing one of the aftermarket a/c setups (i.e. vintageair, rodair, etc.) the system works nominally, and will hold a charge for about one cooling season (that's 50 weeks in texas.) freon's getting harder to come by, plus the truck is already doing enough environmental damage. i understand that a r134a conversion just isn't as efficient, and there's also a new type of refrigerant out?

what's everyone's advice (particularly those who know what both systems actually feel like, before/after, etc?

thanks everyone...

[Rokcrln]

Try checking with extd56 he has a few of each set up in his vehicals and right now I am building two more for him and thay are both getting after market systems!

Kevin
LFD Inc.

[Orange '71 GMC]

Well -
I don't know others sentiments, but I went through exactly the same thing as you.

I had a factory air setup, and after filling it with R12 (which would frost the windshield) - then pinching an O-Ring on the back of the compressor and leaking out all the R12, I converted to R134a.

I ran that for a while. It was very moderate. You had to let it run for a while to get it to cool off the cab.

I decided to go with an aftermarket system, yanking the factory one. I am using a setup from a local company called Coyote Air which is quite good. It uses the factory vents, so looks stock inside the cab - but fits under the dash. I am just trying to find a compressor mount bracket for the Sanden that I like.

Vintage Air would be easier, but I think I will love this setup once I get it finished just right.

[cstanley]

Originally Posted by Orange '71 GMC

Well -
I don't know others sentiments, but I went through exactly the same thing as you.

I had a factory air setup, and after filling it with R12 (which would frost the windshield) - then pinching an O-Ring on the back of the compressor and leaking out all the R12, I converted to R134a.

I ran that for a while. It was very moderate. You had to let it run for a while to get it to cool off the cab.

I decided to go with an aftermarket system, yanking the factory one. I am using a setup from a local company called Coyote Air which is quite good. It uses the factory vents, so looks stock inside the cab - but fits under the dash. I am just trying to find a compressor mount bracket for the Sanden that I like.

Vintage Air would be easier, but I think I will love this setup once I get it finished just right.

if you don't mind me asking, what do you estimate that coyote system running after it's all said and done? i'm thinking vintage air will be about $1k, and i haven't priced the others yet.

and when you say "under the dash" is it completely exposed a la dealer installed units, or is it under and behind the dash, with very little hanging down and exposed?

[matthufham]

do sanden compressors drag down the motor as much as a stock compressor would?

[l79m20]

Maybe this will help I came across this stuff last summer. Its called RED TEK 12A and will supposedly eliminate the cost of conversion and will run even colder..This is non-ozone depleting and will not harm o-rings, seals, hoses,and oils. There is a tech line provided at 1-800-531-0218. Thats all I know about the product, maybe someone else has heard about it?......Kirby

[cstanley]

the red tek 12a looks promising, at around $7 a can and no real conversion? too good to be true? lower operating head pressure

[72armyswbtruck]

Man, what a great post, I hope that after all the money I have spent recently on A/C parts for the truck, I better be satisfied. I still need almost 300 bones on parts then hookin it all up and charging it

[4x4Poet]

Factory A/C systems have a fresh air feature to draw in air from the cowl so occupants don't breath recirculated in cab air. In all I've seen web researching and reading mag install articles, aftermarket systems (Old Air, Vintage Air, Classic Auto Air) have only an intake under the dash. This is unhealthy, IMO. I think the aftermarket A/C companies do this to save costs. Having a fresh air duct and flap costs $$. Maybe aftermarket companies also think a cleaner firewall is more appealing to restorers.

Consider pricing a professional refurbishment of the factory A/C system. No A/C system, no matter how old, will leak R12 if all the components are serviceable. You could simply have a leaking component like a hose or condensor, etc. A shop that knows their stuff would first put a vacuum on the system to find the leak and go from there.

[coolair]

Maybe "Under Montana Skies" outside air is better than inside air but in the big city with all the vehicles especially diesel big rigs and bubba trucks driving around the recirculate air in my cab is much cleaner than the outside air. On all OEM systems, "Max Air" is recirculated air and on most systems it will drop the vent temp around 10-12 degrees as the system dosn't have to constanly remove hot, humid outside air.

There are other reasons for the use of recirculated air but I won't bore you with all of them.

Obviously, I recommend an all new aftermarket A/C system (warranty & new technology) over an 30+ yr old system.

[Orange '71 GMC]

Originally Posted by cstanley

if you don't mind me asking, what do you estimate that coyote system running after it's all said and done? i'm thinking vintage air will be about $1k, and i haven't priced the others yet.

and when you say "under the dash" is it completely exposed a la dealer installed units, or is it under and behind the dash, with very little hanging down and exposed?

I'd say the Coyote Air system will be somewhere around that 0 or a little more even. It is not as bolt on for our trucks as the Vintage Air system is. It is a universal kit, tailored more for coupes and such. So it will cool a much larger cab than I have, so I will have no problem staying cool with it.

It is mounted in the spot where the factory unit went under the dash - only farther up (in place of the glove box somewhat). It is almost completely hidden from view. Once I get it mounted (hopefully in the next month or so) I will have pics. I will be making my own glove box to go in the remaining empty space - and I am doing away with my 12 disc changer and equalizer that was in there.

[_Dick_]

I sure don't know much about AC ,but living in Florida its a big deal with me .I did some research a couple years ago

My thinking R-12 is a waste of time,not being made i am told you can only buy recovered R-from junk cars ect .

Switching your R-12 to 134 well you just sweat less

The new 134 systems cost over 1000 mine was closer to 1300 But YES it works ,mine has the heater built in also and hides under that dash

One last thing for y'all that like the look of your trucks original AC .there seems to be another gas that works just great in your trucks AC .its used in commercial building AC if i am remembering correctly .It was test marketed in autos but scared people and didn't get used ( i found all my info on the INTERNET ) if your interested Please do your own research on Propane Gas in AC units

Good luck
remember all i know is what i read i am not an AC guy

[boraxman]

What im thinking of doing is running a Harrison compressor that came with my serpentine set up. I am thinking about mating it to the rest of my factory system and using 134 coolant. Anyone tried this? Think it can be done? Also I happen to have a 30lb bottle or r-12 im saving for a "summer" day.

[matthufham]

hmm, so again, do sanden compressors drag down the motor as much as a stock compressor would?

[Richard]

I have done three conversions to 134A on older R12 units. All of them work fine, 40 degree air on a 100 degree day. Flushing the old system helps. The biggest reasons I see the unit does work well after a conversion is that a sufficient vacuum was not pulled on the system and it was charged incorrectly. I have read that R134 is more efficient than R12. Maybe that is why a more efficient or larger condenser coil helps as well, it can reject the added heat the evap coil collects? One of the conversions I did we used the old condenser coil and the temp would rise slightly at idle. I am sure if he had added a fan on the condenser or we changed it it would have worked perfectly. Anyway, if done properly it will work fine, there is a forum somewhere that even tells you how to fine tune the TXV. The boiling points of both refrigerants are very close from what I understand. I will use the stock system I have on my 72 as well when I get to that point, only thing new will be the compressor. A TXV system with a POA valve is easier on the compressor as it does not have to start and stop all the time. The clutch/fixed orfice style system comonly used in cars today was developed on a cost reduction standpoint not for efficiency.

[shifty]

i am going aftermarket. i don't care about getting a fresh air flap - i run my air recirculated so it blows harder anyways. i rarely ever do fresh air except when defrosting (i think?) and, well ... i'm still going aftermarket. i'll roll down the windows or something

[see ten]

I have a Vintage Air sure fit system on both of my trucks.

[mrein3]

Go factory.

You need to adjust your POA from the factory R12 setting to work better with R134a.

The link with the pictures from approx 2003 is gone however you may get some help with this link to adjust your POA:
http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...AR_MSGDBTABLE=

I converted my non-AC firewall to AC, bolted on all the AC stuff, adjusted my POA, have all the brackets, bought the 134a, I just have not yet finished the job.

So far I have approximately $250 into the setup, including the 134a. I just need to finish the job.

[cstanley]

Originally Posted by mrein3

Go factory.

You need to adjust your POA from the factory R12 setting to work better with R134a.

The link with the pictures from approx 2003 is gone however you may get some help with this link to adjust your POA:
http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...AR_MSGDBTABLE=

I converted my non-AC firewall to AC, bolted on all the AC stuff, adjusted my POA, have all the brackets, bought the 134a, I just have not yet finished the job.

So far I have approximately $250 into the setup, including the 134a. I just need to finish the job.

holy crap. that forum uses more acronyms than the architecture/construction industry! i am now lost.

how 'bout this: can i maintain my original functioning system, put on a better compressor (sanden?) and maybe a more powerful/efficient blower motor? then larger condenser/evaporator?

RED TEK 12A?

[coolair]

hmm, so again, do sanden compressors drag down the motor as much as a stock compressor would?

Sanden compressor will draw about 5 HP from the engine.

[boundstaffpress]

Orange '71 GMC
Try using Classic Auto Air for a compressor bracket. They use 1/4" lazer cut steel. I have pics of one on my old nova. The side mount didn't fit my engine bay, but the above mount did. Either should fit our trucks.

This is the side mount. There was a swing bracket attached to the compressor that would also bolt to this setup


Here is the bracket I ended up using. Sorry the pic is dark.

[boundstaffpress]

cstanley
I would install a new system if you plan to keep the truck around and use it on a regular basis.

I would talk at length with the salesman for whatever company you use to put in a new system. Ask if it would be cheaper for you to not get certian components since your truck already has A/C. You won't need new vents for sure. If I was to go back in time, I would buy components, and make my own custom system instead of using the prepackaged set for my nova.
my .02

[pound41]

I did as mrein3 Converted my stock system to 134A. My Dad who is a retired mech and AC certified dating back to the early 70's He pulled vaccum on the system installed and adjusted a new POA. I have purchased a used system for $300 that will go on my other blazer. My AC system is plenty cold enough for a complaining wife and 3 Kids.

[4x4Poet]

I'm pretty sure that the Sanden compressors draw less hp than the old piston style compressors. Obviously lighter weight, too. The Sandens probably need different brackets, though.

Carquest has a *sale* or promotion of A/C equipment through June 30, 2006. They have a flyer called "Cool Tools- Professional A/C Equipment" with compressors, A/C tools, and commodities listed.

[ClemsonChevy]

Here is a link to some info on Freeze 12, an R-12 compatible freon that is ozone safe. Ive never used it, but I've seen it for sale here. Some say its better than
R134a (although its 80% r134a and 20%r142)

http://autorefrigerants.com/co00030.htm