anyone used a caddy northstar motor?

[cstanley]

i've been watching out for a few, and they seem to cost a little less than the 5.3 liters from gm trucks/tahoe/suburbans. there was one on evilbay that was a high output from a seville. i liked the looks of it, and think it would look great in the engine compartment. does it require the same bracketry/modifications as the 5.3, or is there something more complicated? i would think it could use the same kit, such as the one from ECE, but i'd like to know for sure. there's a pic of one below. it looks like it's transversely mounted, but i assume it could be put axially into a '72?

thanks!

[LUV2XCLR8]

My buddy works on them all the time, I wouldn't and I only have one
reason for saying this, they are pretty sweet motors, but the oil pan
is part of the motor, it cost like $2K to have it resealed w/ out a oil
leak guarantee, no one here in my area will guarantee it from leaks.

[cstanley]

that's kind of strange, didn't know that. if it's part of the engine, how does it leak? is the reason because it's very difficult to remove, or that it truly is integral to the engine?

[dougs69c10]

Originally Posted by LUV2XCLR8

My buddy works on them all the time, I wouldn't and I only have one
reason for saying this, they are pretty sweet motors, but the oil pan
is part of the motor, it cost like $2K to have it resealed w/ out a oil
leak guarantee, no one here in my area will guarantee it from leaks.

not true, oil pan is its own piece, but its a 2 piece block.

[LUV2XCLR8]

Originally Posted by dougs69c10

not true, oil pan is its own piece, but its a 2 piece block.

So is this a block gasket that always leaks on them then ?

He told me it was the pan, maybe he meant the block ?

Nobody around here will even touch one, and the dealers
will not guarantee them not to leak after they fix em ?

[dougs69c10]

Originally Posted by LUV2XCLR8

So is this a block gasket that always leaks on them then ?

He told me it was the pan, maybe he meant the block ?

Nobody around here will even touch one, and the dealers
will not guarantee them not to leak after they fix em ?

Well the head bolts run into the mains, the motor's set up is weird, the starter sits under the intake manifold, they use oil, dont burn, but use oil. They make an interesting motor, but if you want something that will last with out problems, id prob steer clear of the northstart.

[dave2953]

I used to work as a tech for a Cadillac dealership. These motors are a nightmare. The motors leak from the pan, and to get it fixed and remove the pan you have to pull the transmission, which also means you have to pull the subframe. I saw them use as much as 4 quarts in the first 3000 miles of life. The pan has an 8 qt. capacity, and that's probably why. They have good power, but they're not designed all that well IMO.

[tom71]

i heard terrible stuff about the head gaskets on these motors

[Old Yeller 1970]

During the course of ordinary bench racing with my engine builder we discussed the merits of a Northstar engine in a truck. Oil leak issues asside, he thought it would be a pretty cool engine to put in a truck and had already figured out what kind of transmission would bolt to it. I think he said the bellhousing bolt pattern was the same as one of the engine/tranny combos that came in a Chevy S-10.
There are some other issues that I remember mainly regarding cosmetic issues, such as the engine covers. Since it sits transversly then once it's turned front/back the cover is not symetrical and would have to be ditched or a new one fabricated.
He had one dissasembled in his shop. It was really interesting to look at. Besides the modular design and overhead cams, it also uses hemispherical heads. I thought that was interesting considering that Dodge Hemis make lots of power, which explains why Cadillac went that direction. But the old Dodge Hemis aren't known for fuel economy or meeting emissions requirements, but the Northstar does both. Even the new Dodge Hemis when compared on a HP/Cubic inch basis aren't all that great.
I'll bet there is some Northstar guru out there who has figured out how to beat the oil leak problem. It's a matter of doing the research to find out who.

[Chevrolet4x4s]

Hot Rod had an article on them a while back (year or two ago)There is a place that specilizes in them(roots supercharged, carburated,etc)Run a search on northstar performance etc see if you can find it.It is strongly reccomended that you stay away from the fwd engines,for several reasons the exhaust manafold running under the engine instead of along side it as in a rwd version is one of the points that I remember. But in a vehicle such as a truck it seems to me that their size(something 231ci ) seems too small for easy performance.
Hope this helps
Shane

[cstanley]

thanks guys, i think i'll scrap that idea. no wonder they seem to be less expensive. for once in my life, i'm trying to go the reliable, trouble-free direction with this build. this doesn't sound like it.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Since trouble free is your aim, what about a fuel injected 350?

[jimmydean]

I thought about the northstar, but I like the idea of the LSx motors now that I've seen a few engine/trans combos sell for less than $2k.

[Longhorn Man]

Even though the Northstar has it's issues... it kicks SERIOUSE ass in a Fiero. Try high 12's in the 1/4 mile hitting the govonor bone stock... burn a custom chip to just get rid of the govonor and mid 12's all day long and 30ish MPG.
sweeeeeeeeeeeet

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

Even though the Northstar has it's issues... it kicks SERIOUSE ass in a Fiero. Try high 12's in the 1/4 mile hitting the govonor bone stock... burn a custom chip to just get rid of the govonor and mid 12's all day long and 30ish MPG.
sweeeeeeeeeeeet

I'd love to see that.

[Chevrolet4x4s]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

Even though the Northstar has it's issues... it kicks SERIOUSE ass in a Fiero. Try high 12's in the 1/4 mile hitting the govonor bone stock... burn a custom chip to just get rid of the govonor and mid 12's all day long and 30ish MPG.
sweeeeeeeeeeeet

I'd Like to drive it would ya loan me your keys for a while?
Shane

[Longhorn Man]

If I had the keys, i wouldn't be here talkin to you guys.
I'd already be dead.

[dougs69c10]

Originally Posted by Chevrolet4x4s

Hot Rod had an article on them a while back (year or two ago)There is a place that specilizes in them(roots supercharged, carburated,etc)Run a search on northstar performance etc see if you can find it.It is strongly reccomended that you stay away from the fwd engines,for several reasons the exhaust manafold running under the engine instead of along side it as in a rwd version is one of the points that I remember. But in a vehicle such as a truck it seems to me that their size(something 231ci ) seems too small for easy performance.
Hope this helps
Shane

280 cubic inches or so 4.6 liters, if it was 231 it would be a 3.8

[shortymac83]

www.CHRfab.com

Go there. I thought about sticking an Aurora 4.0L in a late 70's starfire, but scrapped the idea due to too many projects. CHR builds everything for these things, and if you wanted, you could even get a carbed intake for it! In stock form, even the Aurora motor puts out 250 hp. Apparently they bolt right up to a 700-4R tranny if you move one of the mounting ears. Being an Olds guy, I'm around the Aurora more, and to this day, I haven't heard a bad thing about them, and they're in the Northstar family as well.

Another perk is if you get an Aurora/N'star, they'd probably be cheaper in the boneyards, as everyone is wanting 350 chevies and the like. Plus, they've probably been babied, because honestly, who drives caddies? Not the younger crowd, and if they do, it'd be a relatively high performance car, like the CTS.



Problems that I saw putting it into a Starfire are the following:

1. no headers. That company builds them for sand rails, so yu'd have to make your own exhaust

2: mounting points - the engine mounts would have to be totally fabbed, and with the 700 as opposed to your stock tranny, the crossmember would probably be moved too.

3: ignition - they don't have dizzys, you know. You have to have at least a partial computer system to get the thing running with spark.

4: electrical - if you go with EFI, you need the entire harness and computer, which you can't get except out of a donor car. Imagine pulling an entire wiring harness out of a car without killing it. If you go carbed, it makes it much easier, but you still have to deal with the new-style ignition




Personally, if I were to stick one in anything, it'd be a relatively small, lightweight, rear-wheel drive car. I'd love to use a manual transmission for it, but don't know what would bolt up to it...an 80's camaro tranny maybe? After all, they did come with the 700-4Rs too...

[69moneypit]

I cant remember but it was a member in texas witha northstar in a gray stepside with a web page describing the build. It was in texas because I remember estimating the travel time for a set of wheels he was selling.