Old radiator shot, thinking about Jeg's Universal Aluminum, any one done this?

[Old Yeller 1970]

Well, the original radiator after 36 years and sitting on the shop floor empty for too long has finally given out. I've had it repaired once already and it still leaks. I think it would be foolish to trust a brand new $3000 engine to it.

I need a radiator with more cooling capacity than the original 3 row that was in Old Yeller. It didn't keep the engine cool at high RPM's and heavy loads when it was stock. Now that I have the engine in the sig a 3 row isn't going to cut it.

I bought a 4 row brass/copper from Radiator Doctor. They said it was a direct replacement but it isn't because the brackets aren't big enough. So I figured since I'm going to have to modify the brackets I'd rather lighten things up and take advantage of the extra cooling of a 31x19 aluminum radiator.

Jeg's has a Be Cool AL radiator that is a direct fit but $500 is out of the question. They have a universal 31x19 Aluminum radiator for $179.99 and I wondered if anyone has tried it or one like it in our trucks?

[Tim240Z]

I have a new OEM replacement 4 row HD radiator in my C20 and the temps never get above 195*, even in SoCal traffic on a hot day. Aluminum, while light and bling-bling, does not have the same heat transfer capabilities as copper, thus is slightly less efficient. Just food for thought. Make sure you have the specs on the cheap aluminum ones before you buy (fins/inch, passage size, etc).
Tim

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by Tim240Z

Aluminum, while light and bling-bling, does not have the same heat transfer capabilities as copper, thus is slightly less efficient.

Yes, that is true copper is much better at transfering heat. Where AL makes up for it is they are more ridgid and can offer more surface area for heat transfer. Of course that doesn't mean the one from Jeg's will necesarily pass muster. It is however, a 2 row 1" core that's all the specs I have.

Also keep in mind that for the last 15-20 years virtually all modern cars and trucks have AL radiators so they must be pretty good or everyone would have stayed with brass/copper.

[DigitalFusion]

I was just looking at the JEG's catalog wondering the exact same thing. I wish they had more detail on them.

[Shane]

One of the reasons car manufacturers switched to aluminum in their radiators from copper/brass is COST. Plain and simple.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by Shane

One of the reasons car manufacturers switched to aluminum in their radiators from copper/brass is COST. Plain and simple.

I don't doubt it one bit. But they must be just as effective as copper/brass or everyone would be stuck on the side of the road in the middle of the summer.

[thecatseye66]

I thought about going the aluminum route for a little while, but after seeing that I could get a new, stock 4-core with a warranty from the radiator barn for 140 bucks I just said screw trying to "figure out something" in the aluminum universal setups. I wasn't about to pay 500 bones for a "B-Cool" either.
The new one I have fits just right and cools better than my old one--so, problem solved.

If I really wanted to get the temp down inside the engine I'd be looking at those hi-flo thermostats and high-volume water pumps.

[Old Yeller 1970]

You must have already had a four core rad. Since mine was originally 3 core I have to figure out something regardless of whether I go 4 core or aluminum. That's the price you pay when you start modifying stuff. You know how it goes. Change one part and you have to change the whole vehicle to make it work.

I don't blame you for not wanting to change a bunch of stuff. That's why I bought the 4 core to start with because I thought it would fit without modification. Glad it worked out for you to stick with what you had.

You may have a point about sticking with a 3 core radiator and going with a high volume water pump. Originally, I had planned to run the old radiator and see how my temp was and try a high volume water pump first and then upgrade to a new radiator if needed. Unfortunately, I'm having to guess about whether to go with a different radiator first and then worry about the water pump second.

[Deuce]

I used a rad out of the 87 IROC I robbed the tuned-port out of. It even fit in the stock rad saddles.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by Deuce

I used a rad out of the 87 IROC I robbed the tuned-port out of. It even fit in the stock rad saddles.

That's interesting, I'm guessing it's AL and is attached to the 383 in your sig.

When you say it fit the stock saddles was that both horizontal and vertical?

[1972C10]

I just ordered the 31x19 for a 73 Vette Ive been restoring.

It should be here tues or weds Ill let you know how it turns out ..

The person on the tech line that i spoke to said they can be mounting using brackets that go onto the top and bottom of the tanks They dont have provisions for auto trans coolers so an external would be needed.
.

I also had the same dilema over the direct fit be cool for 499 I figured that whatever modifactions I had to do to get the jegs in there ..If any .. Would be worth the savings.

[70rs/ss]

I have used two, from Summit, and they work great. You will have to make brackets, but it is not too hard. I think AL is more efficient at heat transfer, as I have read articles claiming 2 row AL cool better than 4-row coppers. I havee one left over that I'll be using in my 90 454 SS truck. It is a rowdy BBC w/AC so AL is the only way!!

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

I think AL is more efficient at heat transfer, as I have read articles claiming 2 row AL cool better than 4-row coppers.

Pound for pound copper is more efficient at heat transfer than aluminum. But AL is more ridgid than CU allowing more fins/inch in an AL radiator, 16 vs around 10-12 in a CU rad, creating more heat transfer. That's actually what makes an AL radiator better than a CU radiator. Just FYI.

Also, I intend to order an AL radiator from Jeg's but haven't done so yet because I've been out of town on business and out of town on vacation and I'm just about to sell my house and move. Too many irons in the fire.

[PanelDeland]

The brackets should be easy to change in order to put a 4 row in.I think the brackets(called saddles above)should be available from the vendors on the BB.
That should be plenty to keep your engine cool.You seem to have a potent enough package for fun but not so radical that it would be hard to keep cool.

[1972C10]

Well i got the jegs radiator and got it installed I had to move two mounts over about an inch for my application And Rig A Hose

the tanks were a little Closer together than my stock setup Wich is why i had to move the mounts closer to each other

Overall a good product would go into a truck with no problem im sure At the most move one side of the mounts in a little

Oh and it doesnt come equiped with a drain either Nor the transmission cooler I installed this B&M Supercooler 19k GVW

[Old Yeller 1970]

Looks like a good fit. Thanks for the photos. Installing your own drain is a good idea, I think I'll do the same. If you have any more pics of the Vette you need to quit teasing us and let us see the rest of it.

[Smitty]

They use a lot of plastic with their radiators etc. Does that help to make them better? Several people I know when replacing early went with a heavier radiator rather than the OEM.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by Smitty

They use a lot of plastic with their radiators etc. Does that help to make them better? Several people I know when replacing early went with a heavier radiator rather than the OEM.

Although Jeg's does sell radiators with plastic tanks, the radiator we have been discussing in this thread is fully welded and all aluminum. (I verified this with a Jeg's rep who has one in his personal vehicle.)

My understanding about the AL radiators with plastic tanks is the epoxy that bonds the tanks to the core has been known to come loose. Otherswise they cool just as well as an all AL radiator.

What makes AL better is not that it is better at transfering heat than CU (on a pound for pound basis CU is better) but AL is more ridgid allowing up to 16 fins/inch as opposed to a CU OEM radiator with only 10 fins/inch. The extra fins allows the AL radiator to cool more effectively than a CU radiator.

[cell]

also keep in mind that while copper is better than aluminum at conducting heat within itself, aluminum is better than copper at transferring the heat from itself to the air.

Next time you are in the computer store, take a look at the CPU heatsinks. The fancy ones have a slug of copper in the base, with aluminum fins up top. Copper is used to spread the throughout the heatsink quickly, and the aluminum fins transfer the heat to the air quickly.

So the question of copper or aluminum radiator boils down to this question (pun intended): which is more important, transferring the heat from the water to the radiator, or transferring the heat from the radiator to the air. Honestly, I don't know the answer. My inclination is that because water can carry such a huge amount of thermal energy, that getting the heat from the radiator to the air is probably more important, so aluminum would be better.

[TugOwar]

This is a good thread and contains a lot of good info on copper vs aluminum. Might be a good candidate for the FAQ section.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by cell

also keep in mind that while copper is better than aluminum at conducting heat within itself, aluminum is better than copper at transferring the heat from itself to the air.

Next time you are in the computer store, take a look at the CPU heatsinks. The fancy ones have a slug of copper in the base, with aluminum fins up top. Copper is used to spread the throughout the heatsink quickly, and the aluminum fins transfer the heat to the air quickly.

So the question of copper or aluminum radiator boils down to this question (pun intended): which is more important, transferring the heat from the water to the radiator, or transferring the heat from the radiator to the air. Honestly, I don't know the answer. My inclination is that because water can carry such a huge amount of thermal energy, that getting the heat from the radiator to the air is probably more important, so aluminum would be better.

I've been doing a fair amount of research around the internet on this subject and based on what I've learned I have to disagree just a little. Pound for pound Cu is better at transfering heat to air than AL.

However, I believe your example demonstrates what I've been saying all along. The Cu in the heat sink absorbs the heat and delivers it to the fins better than an AL slug could do. But because AL is more ridgid than Cu allowing more fins/inch it is used for the fins instead of Cu.

Although AL does not disapate heat as quickly as Cu the extra AL fins create more surface area and more surface area disapates more heat. In otherwords if it were posible to have the same number of Cu fins vs AL fins the Cu would cool better than the AL. Since that isn't posible the extra AL fins out cools the Cu fins.

[1972C10]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller 1970

Looks like a good fit. Thanks for the photos. Installing your own drain is a good idea, I think I'll do the same. If you have any more pics of the Vette you need to quit teasing us and let us see the rest of it.

Wasnt Trying To Hyjack But Since You Insist Got that brand new 2.5 Formed Exhaust setup for the car Stainless And alot of Other goodies Front and rear suspension Overhauled , A/C , Oil Pans Over 4-5k invested in parts alone

All i lack now is hauling it on a trailer to the muffler shop to have some pipe bent to install the flowmasters that it had when it came to me and get an alingment.

Just waiting on new tires for my truck to make the haul a safe one Thats a bit of a liability To be hauling and have a blow out .

[Old Yeller 1970]

Great lookin' Vette. I've always loved that body style. I'm moving to Lubbock next month. Seeing your ride tempts me to stop by and go for a spin.

[1972C10]

Well if your interested in one id be more than happy to restore one for you

This one started out as Fixing the A/C And Looking Into That Funny Noise From The Rearend. Now 4 thousand later almost everything that can wear was wore or would wear is new.

He Still Has The Same Engine Trans It Arrived With But He Wants Me To Build Alot Stronger Engine In The Future .

Ill have It Back to the customer very shortly . Well I have to Test Its Durability

After multiple test drives of course

[hgs_notes]

Just another .02 on the al vs. cu. The reason they have fewer rows on the aluminum radiator is because they can form the wider row easier. If the copper would have allowed it, our old radiators would have had the exact same configuration. A 1" wide flat channel in copper will not hold the same pressure as the aluminum, so the channel, or row, was much narrower, about half. So comparison of the number of rows between the two styles is not a good one as far as btu transfar rate capabilities. Cost was certainly a factor in the OEM changeover, but partly due to aluminums forming characteristics as well.

On another note, it seems to me, purely by my own observation and not by any statistics, that the aluminum radiators just don't seem to fail as often. How many guys have had the old ones leak and repaired, but may have cars with old aluminum one without any repairs. I realize that there is an age difference, but aluminum radiators have been out there a long time now.

HG
HG