most applicable candidate for diesel swap?

[cstanley]

anyone have any good ideas/knowlege/experience for the "best" diesel swap? i'm currently weiging my options. i've been planning on a drive train swap using '06 5.3/lt60E with DOD, but i've been rethinking this in light of a diesel option.

so, anyone have any idea what the best candidate might be? i've heard mention of a few different engines, but i'd like to revisit the thought.

the goal:
1) i'd like to eventually run it on biodiesel or biodiesel blend, so it needs to be a newer engine (i've dug up in research.) i'd also like it to be a quiet engine, not a rattletrap of a diesel.

2) most pain free swap (if there is such a thing.) this includes mating to a proper automatic transmission, engine mounts, computer, etc.

also, discuss the economy of the swap. are diesel engines more expensive to come up with? swap expense? even if i run it on regular diesel (barring any wierd bio hiccups, etc.) is it practical?

thanks everyone!

[MisterMan]

read up on the head switch... i believe it was a straight 6 mod??? dont quote me.. bio diesel is awesome, a neusence to make, yet nice... it should run fine in an older desel. ya like bening wrenches, run some bio in an older, lift the head and take a look see!!!

[Longhorn Man]

The site is gone now, but a few years ago when i first heard of the veg oil for fuel, I stumbled upon a Chevette site that explained it, and they had done it on there Isusu diesel that was stock in this early 80's crap box. They got the exact same 40 MPG on the straight chineese food left over oil, as they did on diesel straight from the pump. I don't know how scientific they were on obtaining the numbers, but, that was there claim.
So you can do it on old ones. The story said there was nothing chainged on the engine at all. This conversion included a dedicated fuel tank with a heater in it, seperate fuel lines to the engine with it's own dedicated fuel filter, and a solonoid to turn one fuel system off, and the other one on.

[cstanley]

it's all very interesting reading, right now. i'm actually very excited about the direction this could go. thinking big picture, this is all a very viable alternative the world over. not necessarily just the used veg oil concept, but much of the bio is being made fresh from soy (finally a good use for that!) and of course, corn. problem is that while the fuel burns cleaner and is non-toxic, it actually produces MUCH more NOx and something else, i forget, which is a carcinogen. so while we get cleaner burn, we get more acid rain and cancer.

another interesting tidbit is that Team AUDI AG recently won the 24 hour LeMans with a 645hp v12 diesel TDI, the 1st diesel ever to win. it turned in a number of records, including record lap times and significantly fewer pit stops, due to better fuel economy. all this and the car was faster and had fewer problems (they had to change a gear box, but little else.) it was also much quieter.

anyway, since toyota holds the patents on gas hybrid technology, i predict that lots of others are going to be developing diesel hybrids (already happening) and diesels wil begin to proliferate substantially. better fuel economy, more power, longer engine life, ability to use biodiesels...the list goes on. diesel is already burning much cleaner than it used to.

i just want to be a bit ahead of the game. it's gonna be the next new "thing" in hot rodding! strokers are out, diesels are in!


so, i just need to know which one to put in, and i'll be on my way.

[Longhorn Man]

well, get ready to spend some real money. The MPG is higher, but so is the cost of replacement parts as is the cost of maintnance, plus, the cost just to get in the game will be WAY higher than you want to do most likely.

[cstanley]

i see now...i was checking some prices
5.9L cummins going for $4K on up...sheesh!

maybe someone has an extra lying around...i wish! i'd probably be better off trying to buy a totalled truck!

not giving up yet, though. looks like it'd be roughly twice the cost of the swap in my original plan.

[Longhorn Man]

don't forget what you'd spend on the chassis too, and computer/harness/sensors, it's a lot of work.

[ND_guy]

A DOD 5.3 and tranny be as much as a diesel Wasnt last year the first year for DOD your gas engine would have to be pretty new.

[Guilty By Design]

Im planning on putting a cummins 5.9 turbo in the dually. When you think about it tho 4k for the 5.9 isnt bad. Gm crate motors are up there and wont get as much mileage/pulling power. Im building mine strictly to pull a 44' enclosed so thats all im concerned with. Ive been looking around in the yards around here for a front clip/motor and trans but they wont even sell me one, but then again the yards around here suck.

[TP from Cntl PA]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

well, get ready to spend some real money. The MPG is higher, but so is the cost of replacement parts as is the cost of maintnance.

Nonsense...........After wrenching on gas powered IH and GM single and tandem axle big trucks, and going to diesel powered versions, the cost of maintanance dropped, and so did part costs since you needed less of them. Heck, now days if a diesel doesn't make it to a million miles in them without much trouble, the engines are labled as JUNK(Good examples of great diesels, Cat 3406, 60 Series Detroits, and Cummins 855/N14..........Bad IMO are the C15 Cats and Smaller Cummins...........Word is still out on the ISX Cummins)


..If you don't count your own labor a diesel swap can be done fairly cheap.

I got a newer Diesel in an old truck.............Still working the bugs out of it, but I am tickled to death with it. I am going to be updating the driveline though, I tried to skimp on it..........with the old, "Well, that same tranny and driveline held up behing GM big blocks, so it will work for what I am doing".................WRONG! Adapted HD ZF-6spd with oil cooler should fix me up............It isn't gonna be cheap, but will end the torn up drive train that I have to bandaid together on a fairly regular basis anymore. I built the truck to use and by god we're running the wheels off of it, so I am not complaining at all. Once I get that problem solved it will last a long time.

An old 12V mechanically injected 5.9's are fairly cheap. Everyone says they are so expensive...........Personally I haven't seen one priced anywhere close to $4k. Heck you can get them on ebay for alot less than that.

What is this engine going in, weight/suspension issues are the real big problem areas swapping engines in IMO. May want to look into some other engines besides Cummins for a swap, IMO a 354 Perkins would be a dandy to put in a truck and they are good starters and reliable as all get out. My next one will get a screamin' Jimmy............Mainly so I can get the REAL Jake Brake, not some cheapo exhaust brake rip off version.

[Bernie]

There is a website jeeps2diesel.org. I was looking at putting a diesel in a cj7. You can pick up a chevy 6.2 diesel fairly cheaply. but the place on e-bay that sells them out of humvees is not supposed to be good. It seemed to me that weight was the biggest problem. A 6.2 is supposed to have the same engine mounts as a small block and the same bellhousing and I was told that it was easier to swap in one with mechanical fuel injection. I wasn't able to get around the weight problem in the cj, but that would matter less in a truck.

[cstanley]

i have a line on some 5.3L DODs w/ 4L60E out of '06 trailblazers for a little over $3k, including computer and accessories. i think they are coming out of newer hail damaged vehicles or something. usually less than 1,000 mi.

it's going in my '72 lwb 1/2 ton. weight could be an issue with the 1/2 ton...

perhaps the 5.3 is the way to go, and hope for ethanol conversion (if necessary) in the near future.

[TP from Cntl PA]

Originally Posted by cstanley

i have a line on some 5.3L DODs w/ 4L60E out of '06 trailblazers for a little over $3k, including computer and accessories. i think they are coming out of newer hail damaged vehicles or something. usually less than 1,000 mi.

it's going in my '72 lwb 1/2 ton. weight could be an issue with the 1/2 ton...

Boy, your pretty limited on the diesel powerplants that would work without alot of suspension work. IMO a 4 Cylinder version of the 5.9's in the Dodges maybe your best bet, aka 4BT. Was used in route trucks alot, doesn't make alot of hp, but they have torque coming out the rear!

[409biscayne]

Funny you should say the next new " thing" in hot rodding , my best friend from back home called me today , bragging up his new ride , a Duramax Chevy pickup . Now this guy is the original " Mr. Big Block " , he has big blocks in all his cars / trucks / boats , including an 8.1 ( 496 ) in the work truck , he even has an aluminum headed 427 bbc in his 32 Ford . So all he can talk about today is his hot rodded Duramax . With just a 100hp chip and a cold air intake and cat back exhaust he says it should run 14.00 flat , that's not too bad , if it does it . Anyway , he also seems to think this is the future of everyday street performance . We'll have to wait and see .

[rcbildr]

I will be doing that swap for my 67 Suburban project. I found an 82 3/4ton Burb with a 6.2 diesel (runs great) for my donor vehicle. I will be using the entire front crossmember & suspension from the 82 so the weight will not be an issue. The 6.2/6.5 diesels will bolt in place of a small block. The mounts are the same and so is the pattern on the bellhousing for the transmission. I think finding a complete donor vehicle would be the best. That way you have all the wiring for the glow plug controller and anything else that might be needed. I was told that the automatic transmissions are set up differently for the diesel. If I remember right it's the governor and the valve body. Hope this helps.

[sbc383rulz]

bio diesel tends to eat the fuel system for some reason. your gonna end up replacing pumps and injectors more often. regular diesels are great they make so much torque! the 6.5 is a great engine for a swap and it bols up to alot of gas parts like trans/engine mounts. the downside to a 6.5 is computer but the upside is later model turbo diesel with stronger head surfaces than a 6.2. good luck hope you get it all together and it makes you smile when you stand on it and all you hear is TURBO SPOOL!

[HotRod71]

Offroading buddy of mine just swapped a VW 1.8 TDI into a Suzuki Samauri. He did this in about 2 weeks working limited hours on it. Seems to be working good for him. Not a lot of hoursepower but plenty of torque.

As far as the bio eating the fuel system up, since about 1993 diesel's have come with synthetic fuel lines with no natural rubber in the system. This gets rid of a big part of that problem. I have been considering making my own diesel for my Cummins 6BT, just gotta make sure you filter this stuff well and maybe change the fuel filter twice as often.

[special-K]

Hot RoduraMax/Allison...

[cstanley]

Whoa...

[Karl Hoh]

"From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" by Joshua Tickell will dispel any myths. He is the "Daddy" of bio & veggie fuel. Stick with Perkins or 4bt cummins. A 3.31 or 3.54 rear gear will give you the highway speed. My old farm truck 5.9 12v has almost 350k miles, never been opened, starts without glowplugs till -10F, been doing alot of thinking about switching it to bio/veggie fuel.

[jracca]

Use a 4bt, That is what I am putting in mine.

You can get em cheap out of stepvans, and usually with a th400 behind them when in a GM chassis.

I bought the entire van running good for 1200 and the aluminum scrap should be worth at least 800, not to mention a few other parts I can sell like the 19.5 rims once I get the thing apart.

[cstanley]

let us know how that swap goes...

[JAKES 68GMC]

B series Cummins are tried and true engines up here. 4bt's will shake your truck apart, so bear that in mind. The 6Bt's are used in lobster boats up here everywhere, and most of the boats that have them go like a SOB for there size. The boat versions are sold as a 210hp version, but some are hopped up more.
Many people up here hate Perkins diesels. My father had one in a tractor once. He rebuilt the motor in it, and he told me that the factory left the casting/forging flashings on some pieces and parts of the motor(main caps, edges of the block, rods etc.).
But I'd go with a Cummins, either 4 or 6 bt. The 4 will fit better, but the 6 will have a lot more grunt.