Enviro Safe A/C Refrigerants

[crawdad]

Has anybody used any of the "EnviroSafe" regrigerants. Advertisements say they are much more efficient than either R12 or R134a, and, as the name implies, environmentally safe as well. One of my upcoming projects on my new truck is to try and get the A/C up and running. The trucks black color (both inside and outside) make the cab about twice as hot as usual, and I's gots to have sum relief!!!

[454HO]

If you ever anticipate an a/c service shop will work on your truck in the future, then either stick with the good old R-12 or the only EPA approved replacement R-134a. Most shops won't touch anything else. Their refrigerant recovery equipment is normally dedicated to either R-12 or R134a. Anything else will cause it to become 'contaminated' and will cost BIG $$$$ to deal with. Also remember that a/c compressors, as well as many other a/c components, are usually only warranted if they are used with R-12 or R-134a.

And those enviro-friendly alternatives you mention are probably hydro-carbon (as in propane) blends. There is a lot of hype about using highly flamable gases in an automotive a/c environment. Some people don't think it's a big deal to be riding around the streets with a relatively large quantity of highly pressurized liquid propane only inches away from them. Others think those people are totally assinine. All I can say is educate yourself and make a decision that you and the people around you can live with.

[crawdad]

Originally Posted by 454HO

All I can say is educate yourself and make a decision that you and the people around you can live with.

That's exactly what I was trying to do in asking the question to begin with.

[eagle23]

I would stick with either the R12 or the 134A, not the substitutes.

A couple of thoughts...if the substitutes were so good, more people would use them. I had heard too they are propane based. We drive around with 15-40 gallons of highly flammable liquid fuel all day long. That doesn't bother me so much, okay?

I recently had my 77's AC worked on at AutoCool in Smyrna GA (NW of Atlanta; I live in Roswell). Some years ago before I knew better, I had mixed both R12 and 134A in the system. At the time I said so-what and went with what I could find. They have a very expen$ive machine that found the ratio of one to the other. They were fine with either way I wanted to go, since I had some R12 with me I had purchased on ebay, and they had some as well.

In the end, they evacuated everything and put in 134A, per my choice. I figure it's hard enough keeping an almost 30 year old truck going. I can make life easier on myself by putting in the AC the stuff I can easily find when it needs to be replenished.

I have not found any noticeable difference in cooling, though I understand that 134A is not as efficient initially at cooling, and many of the new cars that use it seem to reflect that. On the upside, even though my system's parts are not ideally matched to use 134A (I think the factory original condenser is considered a bit too small to be optimal), it cools just fine.

Remember that the cabs of these trucks are tiny compared to cars or the stationwagons of the day...or 'Burbs The cabs will cool off fast, so I wouldn't let the black color be a concern. In a car it would matter more, esp. the back seat. But opening a window for even a few seconds vents the hot air out so the AC can do its thing.

Brian

[eagle23]

[QUOTE=454HO;1796850]If you ever anticipate an a/c service shop will work on your truck in the future, then either stick with the good old R-12 or the only EPA approved replacement R-134a. Most shops won't touch anything else. Their refrigerant recovery equipment is normally dedicated to either R-12 or R134a. Anything else will cause it to become 'contaminated' and will cost BIG $$$$ to deal with. Also remember that a/c compressors, as well as many other a/c components, are usually only warranted if they are used with R-12 or R-134a."



I think that's the most important consideration. However well intentioned using the substitute is, if the refrigerant is considered "contaminated" you will have cost yourself a whole bunch of money. Maybe not right away but later, and it could have been prevented.

One other idea is to ask an AC-specialty shop if the contamination issue is really an issue. I suspect it is, given how highly regulated they are by the refrigerant makers and feds, but it may be worth asking in the education process.

Keep us posted.

[crawdad]

Well, I went back and read some more, and you're both right about it being propane based, or as 454HO says, hydro-carbon. Appreciate your insight into this. Think I'll stick with either R-12 or 134-A. BTW, can you even get R-12 any more? Rumor Central has it that they don't even make it any more?

[eagle23]

R12 is not made anymore. You can get it on ebay if you have an AC license and provide the number to the seller. The license is easy to get via an online open-book quiz and like $25. The R12 varies by time of year on price.

I went ahead and got the license and R12 a few years ago but if I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, I'd just convert to 134A. The R12 will only become more of a hassle to chase down IMHO.

Brian

[454HO]

Yes, they ceased manufacturing R-12 on Jan 1, 1996. But the EPA still allows the sale of R-12 to licensed individuals. I took the on-line test at EPA Test a few months ago, so I am certified to buy R-12. I think it cost about $20 and maybe 2 or 3 hours of reading the study guide. Piece of cake.

I just bought a full 30lbs cylinder of R-12 for $325 from a guy on craigslist. That works out to the equivelent of 34 14oz cans at $9.55ea. I think I paid about $8 a can for R-134a a couple months ago for my son's truck. Besides my '77 truck, I currently have 3 other vehicles that are of R-12 vintage. I plan to keep them that way as long as possible.

I've retrofit 2 cars to R-134a and was not satisfied with the performance of either of them afterwards. And I did it the right way by replacing the accumulator, the compressor, and then flushing all the old mineral oil out. You learn to appreciate a good a/c system when you've been stuck in Houston's rush-hour traffic on a 98° afternoon a few times.