Another Stupid 4x4 Question - Front Spindle 3/4 vs. 1/2???

[arkracing]

so both 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks from '67-'72 had the Dana 44 Front Axle.
Both 3/4 and 1/2 share the same ball joints. They also take the same front axle U-Joints

Is it possible to put a 3/4 spindle and brake assembly on a oringinal 1/2 axle??

I just want the bigger brakes and more lug nuts

If I get front Spindles and brakes from a '71-'72 K-20 could I replace my '71 K-10 front Spindles and brakes?

Am I being stupid here??? - easier just to get a 3/4 ton axles?

[2wdBlazer]

http://coloradok5.com/8lugconversion.shtml

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by 2wdBlazer

http://coloradok5.com/8lugconversion.shtml

Are you kidding me?! that's it?! That's Awesome - don't even have to change the knuckles!

Now he used the same caliper - is the rotor bigger than the 1/2 rotor? - I see that he had to grid a little off for the caliper to clear the wheel.

Can I basically use any DANA 44 3/4 Front End for a Donor? well '71-'77 or so with the disc brakes?

Guess I should join ck5 and ask him huh???

[2wdBlazer]

I'm not sure on your answers. This is something I still need to do.

[trkklr77]

its not just the 71-72 axles.

all 10b and d44 knuckles are the same.

not all the spindles are the same, but they all work on all knuckles.

any 3/4t setup from 71-91 will fit.


the rotor is bigger, the backing plate is bigger [AND MANDATORY!!!], the spinlde is bigger than the d44 1/2t but is the same as all 10b spindles.

if you have a complete axle that you think is ready to run, why strip it and yours apart, it will only take about half the time to swap out the intire axle.

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by trkklr77

if you have a complete axle that you think is ready to run, why strip it and yours apart, it will only take about half the time to swap out the intire axle.

well if I can get away with only changing one set of gears - I think It would end up being cheaper.

I'd like the truck to see some moderate towing but want to stick with a gear ratio in the 3.50 range to keep the highway RPM down.

My 1/2 already should be somewhere around 3.50 or higher. If I can make the front axle 8 lug with the bigger brakes from a donor then I only have to change the gears in the (new 8 Lug Rear Rear)

most of the 3/4 ton axles have 4.11 or 4.56 gears in them - meaning that I would have to change the gearing in both front and rear axles

[trkklr77]

there arent mid 3.xx ratios for chevy trucks

3/4t 14b are 2.73, 3.73, 4.11 and 4.56 stock
d44 can have 3.54 in jeeps but chevy are 3.08, 3.73, and 4.09 stock.

you probably have 3.73

90% of 3/4t d44s are 4.09 ratio and that is probably steeper than you want. a 14b is much much easier to r&p.

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by trkklr77

there arent mid 3.xx ratios for chevy trucks

3/4t 14b are 2.73, 3.73, 4.11 and 4.56 stock
d44 can have 3.54 in jeeps but chevy are 3.08, 3.73, and 4.09 stock.

you probably have 3.73

90% of 3/4t d44s are 4.09 ratio and that is probably steeper than you want. a 14b is much much easier to r&p.

Is there any easy way to tell what gears it has? - other than to count the teeth. I had someone check the numbers on the housing but he couldn't figure out what it was.

Can I get a 14b rear out of a 2wd or 4wd truck and just R&P it to match my front Dana 44??
How hard is it to find a 3/4 ton rear - either a Dana, Eaton, or 14b?? - what usually comes in them?? - I know that 14b is the most popular and usually a little more $$ - and I'm not rock crawling with this thing so I figure that any of the rears are plenty strong enough.

I'm assuming that you would have to cut the spring perches off and relocate them.

[drink2mny]

I have found out thorugh local GM parts stores that you can no longer get the 3/4 ton backing plates for the 10 bolt or D44 fronts. So basically by aftermarket brackets or find a parts axle to get the parts off of if you want to keep your existing gears.
3/4 ton outer parts around here get about 150-200. When you can usually get a an axle around here for 350.

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by drink2mny

I have found out thorugh local GM parts stores that you can no longer get the 3/4 ton backing plates for the 10 bolt or D44 fronts. So basically by aftermarket brackets or find a parts axle to get the parts off of if you want to keep your existing gears.
3/4 ton outer parts around here get about 150-200. When you can usually get a an axle around here for 350.

$350 is a little more than I can afford right now. There is a place called 4x4 performance right down the street from me - and he has a ton of axles outside on the ground - I'm assuming with blown gears or axles etc. I was hoping to score the front end parts off him for cheap.

I can get a matching '72 3/4t Front and Rear Axle with 4:11s from a board memeber - but it is $600 for the pair and about 5hours 1way

[trkklr77]

i can get you some backing plates from my junkyard, $25 a set plus shiping. you can buy everything else from the parts stores, calipers are $15 each after core, rotors are $25 each, i know you can buy rotating hubs but i have know idea how much, bearings will be about $50 for all 4, pads are $20-50.

$600 plus the drive is pretty damn $$$ for basicaly the same front and a $150 rear.

4.11 is a super super comon ratio for the 14b, the 4.56 are typicaly only in the cucv 1t 14b. doesnt matter 2wd/4wd but they are different than the drw 14bff. there is 2 different carriers and they split at 3.73 / 4.11.

the ##bom will not tell you the %, count the teeth, turn 1 wheel 2 times and count the revs of the dshaft, or find the small metel tag that should be on a diff cover bolt, it will say the count and % .

[vtblazer]

Originally Posted by arkracing

I'd like the truck to see some moderate towing but want to stick with a gear ratio in the 3.50 range to keep the highway RPM down.

No offense intended but your doing all this work cause you wanna tow some?

Seems like staying with what you have and just beefing up the suspension to handle the loads might be alot easier in the long run.

Or is it the bigger brakes your looking for?

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by vtblazer

Or is it the bigger brakes your looking for?

Pretty much

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by trkklr77

i can get you some backing plates from my junkyard, $25 a set plus shiping. you can buy everything else from the parts stores, calipers are $15 each after core, rotors are $25 each, i know you can buy rotating hubs but i have know idea how much, bearings will be about $50 for all 4, pads are $20-50.

4.11 is a super super comon ratio for the 14b, the 4.56 are typicaly only in the cucv 1t 14b. doesnt matter 2wd/4wd but they are different than the drw 14bff. there is 2 different carriers and they split at 3.73 / 4.11.

So I gotta watch out which rear I'm looking for? - which carrier do I want the one with 4.11 or higher (numerically lower) as it will accept gears in the 3.xx Range??? (I.E. not one out of a 1ton truck)

what is a "drw 14bff"?? as to a regular 14b? (well I know it is a full floater axle anyway)

I have new Calipers on the truck now - and since they are the same that saves me some $

I would end up buying new rotors(unless there is enough meat to turn them), Pads & Bearings and the rest I would try and get used.

[Southedisto]

Originally Posted by arkracing

Pretty much

Why not just upgrade the booster and mc? A lot cheaper, and will probably benefit braking more.

[skchevota]

DRW 14 bolt is from a dully truck. It is wider than the standerd 14 bolt by like 6", if you get one from a van they are 3" wider than the pickups whitch is nice because it makes the front and rear the same width.

[vtblazer]

Originally Posted by skchevota

if you get one from a van they are 3" wider than the pickups whitch is nice because it makes the front and rear the same width.

Now that would be a good upgrade right there.

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by skchevota

if you get one from a van they are 3" wider than the pickups whitch is nice because it makes the front and rear the same width.

Really!?

would a rear from a '88-'Early 90's 3500 Series Van be the same??? - it's 8lug (and behind my shop)

I totally forgot about it until you mentioned "Van" - ha - I'll have to measure it and see what the heck it is - maybe they won't notice if it migrates into my shop

as for those who think I'm an idiot - couple reasons that I want to do this (which seems like a lot of work)

#1. LWB Trucks should ALL be 3/4ton! - it just looks right, and they are made to work.
#2. Upgrade to bigger brakes - the right way and not have to worry about it.
#3. Truck Needs Wheels and Tires = Easier to get 8lug rims - Fords, Dodge, Chevy - whatever they are all the same - and gotta love take offs (especially those 16" Aluminum Fords that look like "Weld Super Single II's" or "Weld Drag Lites" = the car version)
#4. I like working on Trucks (it's fun - it actually relaxes me)

[skchevota]

The newer the better on 14bolts, they just kept geting stronger with more webing ext. but you really want the full floater for the most strength, biger ring gear and breaks, if it is them score, if its a semi float then its beter than a 12 bolt but not as good as a dana 60 . hope this helps.
also you will have to relocate the spring pads.

[trkklr77]

Originally Posted by skchevota

DRW 14 bolt is from a dully truck. It is wider than the standerd 14 bolt by like 6", if you get one from a van they are 3" wider than the pickups whitch is nice because it makes the front and rear the same width.

that is not a 100% correct, drw is dualy but their is 2 versions. one is actualy narrower between the backing plates and can only be used with 1t frame spring mounts, there is not enough room between the b/p for the springs. the other is from heavy box vans and long flat beds and is the wider. the van one is ideal but very rare.



the sf 14b is acutauly a really strong rear, it even has slightly larger shafts than the 14bff, but it is a semi float and it has a weaker diff with a smaller ring gear. it does not have a carrier split and a easy locker upgrade is a h2 electric.



"So I gotta watch out which rear I'm looking for? - which carrier do I want the one with 4.11 or higher (numerically lower) as it will accept gears in the 3.xx Range??? (I.E. not one out of a 1ton truck)"

you want a axle from a 3/4t or a srw 1t.
you want the 3.73 carrier.
their are NO mid 3's it 3.73 and thats it.

if you want faster gears look for a d60 or d70 ff as they can have as fast as 2.73%

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by trkklr77

The sf 14b is acutauly a really strong rear, it even has slightly larger shafts than the 14bff, but it is a semi float and it has a weaker diff with a smaller ring gear. it does not have a carrier split and a easy locker upgrade is a h2 electric.

Ok so here's what is behind my shop: (that came out of an '89ish 3500 series Cargo Van)
Appears to be the "semi-floater" 14b with the 9.5" ring gear. Seams to have the larger brakes on it.
Also looks like "Motive Gear" makes a 3.42 gear for this as well.
Also looks like "Eaton" makes a posi unit for it as well - price tag $650 (ouch) - think I'll wait on that anyway.

Seems like the biggest problem is matching the gears. Either they don't make them for the application or they only make them in lower than 3.50's for the Dana 44 Reverse Rotation. And you can't get them any higher than a 3.42 for the 14b to match a 3.07 Dana 44 Reverse. They also don't seem to make a 3.42 Reverse for the Dana

I guess the gear ratio problem is going to mess up my idea oh well.

what did dana 60's come in?

[arkracing]

oh and:

Thank You - you guys are great!

[trkklr77]

d60 rears are in the 3/4t 67-72 chevys, and just about every 3/4t-1t ford and dodge truck, are very wery common.

why are you even looking at reverse rotation gears? that is jeep and ford only high pinion axles, triple the work to put in a chevy and triple the cost.


since you are in the n/e you should talk to this guy, www.extremeaxlesales.com


$650 for that axle is retarded beyond all belief. if you cant find an axle i could pull and ship you a 14bff with your choice of gear for less than $650.

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by trkklr77

$650 for that axle is retarded beyond all belief.

I should have been a little more specific.

The Eaton Posi unit for the 9.5" 14b is $650

Not sure what the kid wants for the axle.

I guess I'll just keep a look out for something about the same width that is the same front gear as mine - I still have to pull the cover and count the teeth to be sure of the gear ratio.

Thanks Again.

[trkklr77]

you wont find any thing that is the same width as your front, chevy's have the widest front d44 and all chevy 4x4 are 4" wider in the front than the rear, it helps with turning radious. the 14bff is 67.5" wms to wms and is just as wide as a 14bsf and any 10/12b.