Lookin' for 11-second times from a K10, what's it take???

[Swiftshifter68]

Alright here goes, I'm gonna' post this question here so we can get an idea of our competition. A neighboring shop owner has a shortbed, half-ton, 4x4, NP205 granny box, "Small block" (all he'll admit to, without my lookin' it over. I'll just guess it's a serious 383, Dart 230 iron heads, solid roller) The guy's EXTRA secretive about the combo' and has indicated he'll be at approximately 3200lbs, raceweight. (?)

We've got a $500 bet (apparently he's good for it, not just flappin' his gums) that his truck is gonna' beat our friend's '67 Dart in a drag race, at a bona-fide dragstrip (forget street racin' for a minute). The Dart's packin' an Edelbrock-headed 360, Comp XE275HL cam, A727, 3000 stall, 8 3/4" 3.91's. Raceweight, wet, with driver is right at 3100lbs.

The question is: What is it gonna' take/what should I look for on the truck, to indicate that the truck has a chance at winning. I've got a few ideas and we're pretty confident, but your input would be much-appreciated. I'm a Chevy guy myself, but our competition is pretty smug and has had his head blown up beyond belief, regarding how "unreal fast" the truck is.

Thank you to anyone and everyone for your input!

[msgross]

I think it will take a miracle for the truck to run 1/4 mile 11's. Maybe if he had twin turbos and nitrous setup... But it's not my money on the line....

[cobinder]

If he's a got the stock truck 4-speed it's gonna take him 11 seconds just to shift. If that dart has posi, that truck would need about 700 horse, lowered to the ground an auto tranny and john Force on the tree.

Spend the winning $500 on your truck.

[1969k10stepside]

let him start in 1st gear on the 465 4 spd...that will take up some time..
No matter what,it still will have to have alot more power to get it down the strip first and faster..Think 572 ....So,does it still function as a 4x4?

[72 CustomCamper]

There is no way I would try to race with a granny tranny. I've owned 3 trucks with that trans and they don't like to be shifted fast...


Chuck

[Zoomad75]

Here's how that trucks going to do 11's. Drive to the edge of a cliff. Push. Measure time it takes to travel first 1/4 mile of drop.

Drag racing a solid axle 4wd with a sm465 is nuts. You just cant rush shifting that truck tranny.

[Swiftshifter68]

Haa! Good stuff, you guys! That's pretty much what I figured, I just thought to ask some folks who are already driving their trucks and have had some experience on what it takes to make 'em fast. I was hesitant about asking such a doofus question, I've seen plenty of fast 2wd trucks, just no 4x4 attempts. Apparently the truck will be launched in 2nd gear, still be configured as a 4wd, and he thinks he can hit the motor with a 400hp N.O.S. plate system. Yeah, that's right, read that again. 400-horse plate system. I don't think he's aware of the science in tuning a hit that big on ANY motor, even if he thinks he's Pat Musi 'er somethin'. Driveshaft? What's that?

My buddy's Dart is also gonna' have a simple plate system on it but, he's not trying to squeeze anything larger than a 150hp shot and that's gonna' be once he clicks into 2nd gear (notice the total lack of the word "noss" anywhere in my verbage. The word does NOT exist, NOS stands for Nitrous Oxide Systems, it's the bottle, the gas, squeeze, nitrous, the plate, the hit, Big Shot, Cheater, Powershot, etc. Call it whatever you want, just not what Vin Diesel calls it.) Sorry, lots of import junk around here, and it all "runs 11's". Suuure.

Anyway I figured the truck would experience a number of factors that would limit its quarter mile abilities, not the least of which would be simple aerodynamics (it's lifted 4 inches on 33in. tires.) He says he'll remove the bumpers "to take some weight out of it". 600lb bumpers, I guess.

Myself, I guess you could say I'm a Chevy guy, although I "almost" bought a little of everything when I first started gettin' into cars. Almost a '67 Firebird, almost a '69-70 Mach 1, almost a '69 440-6bbl Roadrunner (yup, one of THOSE). I'm building a twin-turbo, Motown 406cid for my '68 Chevelle (I'm on TheTurboForums.com constantly, you can see my pic's there. I told the guy with the truck he could wait a little while and deal with the Chevelle but he didn't want any part of it, to which I replied, "good boy". Damn it, coulda' used the cash!) and my truck is gonna' be a '67 SWB fleetside, simple, lowered 3.5"/5" on cheap Ebay 20's. Nothing too "bling, bling" or any of that junk. I just want to have a comfy cruiser to take anywhere, while having a good stance. The motor is gonna' be a clone of the Chevy High Performance "Impersonator" 406cid that I've got almost all of the parts for already, backed by a simple TH400 and 3.08 gears. I've got all the suspension parts/pieces blasted and painted, ECE drop spindles, springs and rear shock kit, just have to finish a customer's '62 Impala for Kool April Nights and then I can get back to MY stuff! Famous last words....

Thank you all for your time, have a good one!

---==Temio Williams, Overpriced Yuba City,CA

[msgross]

go to "you tube" and search for "Parish truck". This guy has a blue 1/2 ton silverado with a stroked 400+cid, twin turbos and nitrous. He finally got it to run a 10.11 in the video on non-slick average tires. I can't see a T-case handling that power and there's no way he will run 11's.

Unless he's talking 1/8th mile! better check the fine print...

[Zoomad75]

I've seen those videos of that silverado too. Big difference. That guy is running a new IFS truck that he's grenaded a couple of 4l60's and had to upgrade to a 4l80 and t/case from a 3/4 ton to take the abuse. plus he's running stock sized tires too. That's way different from a solid axle 4x4 with a 465/205 combo riding on 33's and 4" of lift.

Besides the high drag from the barn door body, the lifted suspension exposes more of the axles and frame to the wind and also increases the drag. But that's not going to be what keeps him from going fast. It's going to be the gearing and tires that will limit his speed. He's going to need 4.56's to 5.13's to get enough leverage on those 33's to get out of the hole. Then he has got to make a quick shift to 3rd (starting in 2nd) hit the N2O and grab 4th. Then you have to factor in traction. Sure he's got 33's but with an empty bed and no traction device do you think the tires are going to be able to hold onto a 400 hp shot?

Here is my prediction of whats going to happen. The truck is going to leave out of the hole wheel hopping like crazy from dumping the clutch and having little to no traction. He's going to get rolling and hit the N2O and it's going to shockload the axle, start wheelhopping again and he's going to snap an axle once it hooks up on the power.

a 1/2 ton rear axle 10 or 12b won't take the abuse of 33's getting traction on a prepped track. He'll snap an axle shaft if he hooks up at all. I watched a guy do it trying to impress the group with a burnout in his 86 K10. It took 5 guys lifting on the bumper to take the weight off of the right rear tire to get smoking. Once it got spinning good they relaxed and let go. As soon as they did that the tire grabbed and BANG! Snapped axle shaft. And that was with a worn out 305/700r4 on 33's.

[Swiftshifter68]

Yup, I told him about Parish's Silverado and he didn't seem to grasp the concept of Physics and the fact that the truck made over 1000hp AT THE WHEELS . I've got quite a few vid's of the truck at both Drag Week 2 (Winner--Power Adder SB, with the low-10 passes) and on the street, messin' with people. Zoomad75, your prediction made me laugh the most, as that is almost verbatim what I told him would happen. Once again, that darn'd Physics subject.

We've got a few weeks 'til the matchup, we're still wranglin' parts for the Dart. The funny thing is, the Dart buildup hasn't been modified at all, in regards to racing the truck. All the parts/pieces are ones that my buddy had already planned to use. The truck guy is throwin' all kinds of cash at his engine to do whatever it takes to win. Should be fuuuuun(y, that is!)

Thanks again for all your comments, have a good one!

---==Temio Williams

[chiggly626]

Originally Posted by Swiftshifter68

The guy's EXTRA secretive about the combo' and has indicated he'll be at approximately 3200lbs, raceweight. (?)

I'd be surprised if he could get his truck to weigh in at less than 4200lbs!!!!

[72 CustomCamper]

Might want to take a camcorder so everybody will have something to laugh at. Maybe even a wagon to help pick up the truck parts when he sprays it...


Chuck

[Swiftshifter68]

Oh, don't kid, the whole episode will be on tape! I might bring a broom and dustpan too!!

[msgross]

Is the bet that he'll run 11's or that he'll win the race? If one car breaks then my 5 year olds Corvette could win the drag....just be sure that your's is reliable...

[Zoomad75]

I want to see the video for sure! You just got to think he's putting serious power into tires larger than most pro street guys run on a stock 1/2 ton axle. Drag cars running 31" slicks or Pro-street cars with 31" M/T's run seriously beefed up 9" or D60's. You would think if this guy is such a wizard on the track he'd get that point.

I wouldn't try to get him to back down. Let his ego take over and bring a broom and dustpan to pick up the carnage. Then collect on the bet.

[74 shortbed 406]

If your boy has a 500 hp 383 in a 1/2 t 4wd with the granny box than I would race him with a v6 s-10. I don't care if his trucks weighs 2500 lbs, if you have driven a sm465 equipped truck you will realize it is a very slow shifting tranny. They will handle abuse but not speed shifting.

[Swiftshifter68]

Yeah, sorry, the bet is just that the truck will outdo the Dart in a quarter mile race. Truck Guy just thinks he's gonna' run in the 11's with ease. I'm tryin' to get in on the wager, I could use some cash to cover my header fabrication on the Chevelle!

I'm headed over to TheTurboForums.com for awhile, I'll check back for more comedy though!

---==Temio Williams

[CrashEd]

If he has the right gears and a lot of power he could leave in 3rd gear. The shift from 3rd to 4th is preaty smoth and fast i did it a lot in my dads 72 C20 and even won some drag races that way.

Ed

[special-K]

I doubt @3,200# there`s much of the original truck left.
That`s what I was thinking,about leaving in 3rd.The way you get to eleven seconds is get out on the track,do a 13-15...whatever,then work your way down.You don`t build something,then sit next to it and claim it`s an 11 second machine.

[wedgemon]

Swiftshifter....

When and where is this gonna take place?? I might come over the hill to see this. Much as I love my K10, I think the Dart is gonna walk it!! I'll bring my
K10 with me to pick up some used parts.

- Dave

[Elwayno]

In a 3500 pound vehicle, properly setup, it should take 400HP at the crank to hit 11.99 sec 1/4 mile. Dougbtfull the truck would be at that weight. With the weight and suspension desadavantage of the truck it should take about 500Hp to get to 11.99. 500Hp isn't that hard to get out of a bored stroked 350 with some nitrous. He better have at least some traction bars or something to control the axle. So I would look closely at his rear suspension. If it has a 4 link or something it may launch well. He will leave in 2nd cuz first is granny. The 2-3 shift is long as people said, but when I was a teenager my buddy's 76 K-5 with a 383 and some camelback steel heads would eat up a lot of stock camaros, mustangs and what not. He would get into it and tehn as he would shift they would usually pass him but once he got into 3 he would pull away and not need 4th. A 400 Hp shot is huge. Only a motor built for it will be able to handle it. Unless you got a good forged crank or billet you can say bye bye to it. as was said earlier you don't just hit a motor with 400 shot. You build up to it, tuning the whole way. biggest liability with nitrous is a daul plane intake most people use on the street. Real ez to get to much nitrous and not enough fuel in a couple of cyl.s. Just make the Dodge reliable like was said. You have to finish before you can finsih first.

[Yukon Jack]

Originally Posted by chiggly626

I'd be surprised if he could get his truck to weigh in at less than 4200lbs!!!!

My thoughts exactly! These old 4wd trucks are heavy, heavy transmissions, heavy transfer cases, heavy axles and then he's got heavy 33" tires. When my 69 had the sbc it was hitting right at 5,700 lbs.

[johnnywagon]

11's??? Yeah right, maybe he's talking 1/8th mile.

[70rs/ss]

I used to watch a toyota landcruizer 4X pull the frontend with truck tires on it. The guy raced it in Phoenix (Firebird Raceway) It was called Toyotally Awsome (I know it was the late 80's early 90's!) I'd guess if he is willing to throw down 5 bills he better know what he is talking about or he'll lose 5 bills. Do not let smug get in your way, fast isn't a look, its the ability to throw down. A 400 shot is big, but if he does it in stages on top of a 4-500 hp 383, now we're talking near 800hp and an 11 second pass is very realistic. The 205 has nothing to do with anything, if he launches in 2 hi. I'd just be careful not to under estimate him. I wouldn't bet 500 bones unless I knew I could spank someone, maybe he knows more about your buddy than you think.

[O'l Buck]

I'd root for the K-10, but I'd be wasting my time, my guess is it will either grenade or he'll crash.....4x4's are not intended to run 11 second quarters.