Starting problems

[jimmyj]

New starter, new alternator, the battery is less than a year old and the distributor looks relatively new (but I'm not sure). Looks like the previous owner -- from whom I bought my awesome '72 Super Cheyenne C20 350 on Tuesday last week -- might have had the same problem I'm experiencing and started replacing these parts one-by-one in an effort to get to the bottom of things. Here's the deal:

First of all, it will start up strong in the morning, but despite pumping the gas it will inevitably die after 1-2 seconds. It will do this two, perhaps three, times before she lets me rev her up and get going; the colder the morning, the more times I have to turn the key and pump the gas before it finally wakes up (never more than four times, though). Then for the rest of the day, it's fine -- starts up strong, keeps on going, never stalls out or dies when I'm at stop lights. Purrs like a kitten. But if I drive for a while and then turn it off only to turn it on again within a few short minutes, the key won't even turn over. No click, nothing. If I wait about five minutes, it starts up strong again. This has happened approx. four times in the last five days.

Any ideas? Carburetor? Wiring? I'm sort of a novice, but I'm starting to get the hang of it. I'm in love with this truck & I need to get it into decent fighting shape so I can use it for the consruction company I just started. It's all I've got!

[Overkill67]

Sound slike the choke is stuck open, or it has a manual choke and you need to close it before you try starting it.

[drman929]

Does the truck have headers? Sounds like the starter is getting too hot.

[Longhorn Man]

I was thinking hot starter too, untill I loooked back and saw the starter had been replaced recently.
Before spending any more money throwing parts at it, take a good look at your battery cables and connections. If ANYTHING looks fishy, replace the cables. You'll want a good clean place to bolt the neg cable to the engine. If it is bolted to the alt bracket, then move it to the engine... block or head, either is OK. Look for melted, disfigured or spots that just don't look right on both the cables.

[Overkill67]

Guess I should have read it more closely the first time lol

First of all, it will start up strong in the morning, but despite pumping the gas it will inevitably die after 1-2 seconds. It will do this two, perhaps three, times before she lets me rev her up and get going; the colder the morning, the more times I have to turn the key and pump the gas before it finally wakes up (never more than four times, though). Then for the rest of the day, it's fine -- starts up strong, keeps on going, never stalls out or dies when I'm at stop lights. Purrs like a kitten.

That sounds like the choke problem I suggested earlier.

But if I drive for a while and then turn it off only to turn it on again within a few short minutes, the key won't even turn over. No click, nothing. If I wait about five minutes, it starts up strong again

That is a seperate issue, probably a heat soaked starter soilnoid, like the guys above have suggested.

[jimmyj]

Thanks for all of your suggestions. I don't know if it has headers --- how would I check? (Like I said, I'm new to all this; it's part of the reason I bought the truck: so I could learn.) If the starter itself is overheating, how do I correct that problem so I don't have to wait to restart after it's been running for a while?

And get this: I experienced a new problem this morning. I went to start it up and it started to turn over but gave me the sound like the battery's been running all night. It started to turn over but then the sound changed and slowed down -- like it would sound in a movie if it suddendly changed to slow-mo' -- the lights dimmed ... then nothing. I turned the key again, and I can hear something going on on the other side of the dash, like a very low buzz, but it won't start.

So now I have to go build a retaining wall and fence ... without my truck. Oughta be interesting.

I kinda think the dude who sold me the truck isn't all that honest.

I'll check the wiring and stuff like you guys suggested, but any thoughts on my new problem?

Thanks, fellas.

[RustyParts]

Sometimes increasing the wire size of the - and + battery cables will help alleviate starting problems. I always make my own cables (welding lead) I never did like the wimpy looking cables you see at auto stores.

Adding a ford solenoid will also help with the heat soaked starter problem and makes changing out the starter an easier job.

The starting problem usually involves a Quadrajet they were real bad about leaking down after sitting for awhile, you can either rebuild it or replace it with another type carb, my C10 still does it, but it runs so good I hate to disturb it.

Somtimes you can install an electric fuel pump so the carb will fill when the key is turned on, but that takes some wiring and plumbing.

Good luck with your truck there's a lot of smart guys that hang out here and I'm sure your problems will be solved.

[Longhorn Man]

your new problem sounds like a dead battery.
I would jump it and see if it is charging

[GREASEMONKEY72]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

your new problem sounds like a dead battery.
I would jump it and see if it is charging

[superman3405]

I had the same problem with my 350, never did find out what the problem was. I tried all the things the other guys are saying and nothhing worked. I was going to put a new motor in it anyway so I did and it solved the problem, so I know it was something on the engine! HA!!!
I will keep my eye on this thread and see how you make out, I would love to know what the problem was. Sorry I am not more help..

[jimmyj]

Thanks for all of your suggestions. The last problem I mentioned was an easy fix: the "new battery" the previous owner put in was probably good enough for a Civic, but not nearly big enough for my truck. Bought a bigger battery; problem solved there. The guy seemed mechanically savvy, so it never occurred to me that he'd have bought the wrong size battery. Anyway, I'll keep you posted, Superman3405, as requested.

We'll see what happens when I follow your recommendations to fix the other problems I've had. Thanks again.

[bryanw1968]

Originally Posted by jimmyj

New starter, new alternator, the battery is less than a year old and the distributor looks relatively new (but I'm not sure). Looks like the previous owner -- from whom I bought my awesome '72 Super Cheyenne C20 350 on Tuesday last week -- might have had the same problem I'm experiencing and started replacing these parts one-by-one in an effort to get to the bottom of things. Here's the deal:

First of all, it will start up strong in the morning, but despite pumping the gas it will inevitably die after 1-2 seconds. It will do this two, perhaps three, times before she lets me rev her up and get going; the colder the morning, the more times I have to turn the key and pump the gas before it finally wakes up (never more than four times, though). Then for the rest of the day, it's fine -- starts up strong, keeps on going, never stalls out or dies when I'm at stop lights. Purrs like a kitten. But if I drive for a while and then turn it off only to turn it on again within a few short minutes, the key won't even turn over. No click, nothing. If I wait about five minutes, it starts up strong again. This has happened approx. four times in the last five days.

Any ideas? Carburetor? Wiring? I'm sort of a novice, but I'm starting to get the hang of it. I'm in love with this truck & I need to get it into decent fighting shape so I can use it for the consruction company I just started. It's all I've got!

Check the gap on your plugs. I bet they're way too wide. In the heat you won't see the problem. I had the same thing happen and the colder it got the worse it got. Check em' just to eliminate the possibility.

[PanelDeland]

The starting and dieing problem reminded me of a friends 55.It would start and die and then you had to prime it (Put a small amount of fuel in the carb) to get it to start and run.Replaced fuel pump,rebuilt carb,replaced fuel filter,tried premium fuel,replaced plugs,points condensor,cap and wires.Still the same problem.He lived with it for about a year until he got a 63 Impala.He sold the 55 and a month or so later the guy who bought it told him he replaced the fuel hose from the tank to the metal line(it was cracked and sucking air),evidently enough not to pick up fuel while turning over but so little it would pump enough to run after it was started.He never had another problem.Remember it's a 35 year old truck and some things you would not normally replace may be causing problems.

[hiridn69gmc]

My starter was doing the same thing with the heat soak issues on the selonoid. I had the stock ram horns...I put the ford selonoid on with directions off here, new starter and problem was solved.
With the cold starting issues, like the others have mentioned, it almost sounds like the choke is stuck open (or PO might have tied it open), I would look in that direction. Or put a nice 600 Edelbrock carb on it, I have loved every one I've had.

[jimmyj]

The new battery I got seems to have solved what some of you guys have diagnosed as a "heat-soaked solenoid." I can drive for as long as I want, turn off the car and start it right back up again without any problems. In fact, after long drives I've made it a point to start it up again after I turn it off ... almost as if to pinch myself, because I can't believe the problem was solved.

The only problem that still remains is kind of a big one: I still have to start it three times when it's cold. It will fire up the first two times for anywhere from 1-3 seconds, and then it dies. Third time is usually a charm, but sometimes it takes four. Weird, huh? What the hell's that all about?