Edelbrock 1407 with TH400

[blukangoo]

Hope somebody can help me on this one.

I have an Edelbrock 1407 on my 327 and a TH400 Transmission.
When I drove it I noticed that the Kickdown didn´t work.
There is a switch next to the carb but I don´t think it was ever hooked up.
Does anybody have the same setup? 1407 with TH400?

If so, how is your detent switch hooked up?
I will probably have to fabricate something to get this switch to work.
Pictures would be great.

[Longhorn Man]

hey.. .I can't help you with that... however, you maywant to look into a new air filter set up. That thing you have there is a HUGE fire hazzard. Everytime you hit the throttle... esp whent he engine is not running, it sprays a little bit of fuel into that foam. All it takes is a small backfire to ignite it. Take it off an d stick your nose in it, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'd just hate to see your truck burn to the ground.

[blukangoo]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

hey.. .I can't help you with that... however, you maywant to look into a new air filter set up. That thing you have there is a HUGE fire hazzard. Everytime you hit the throttle... esp whent he engine is not running, it sprays a little bit of fuel into that foam. All it takes is a small backfire to ignite it. Take it off an d stick your nose in it, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'd just hate to see your truck burn to the ground.

Thanks for the tip! I don´t like it either. It was on there when I got the truck.
I´m putting the original on there when I get done with the restore anyways. I just have it on there to keep the carb a little clean.

[blukangoo]

I guess nobody on the board has an Edelbrock 1400 series Carb with a TH400?

Maybe I will just try in the General Forum.

[jfalesi]

Can't help with the linkage, but great build story/pics. But, hmmm... is that a disc brake proportioning valve? Wasn't that '71 and later? Don't worry, I'm not going to tell the German authorities.

My sister is flying to Strausburg, France tomorrow. Maybe you could cruise over there with your V8's and make her feel at home! While you're at it, invade France. Don't worry, they'll surrender.

Affwee2zane!

-Jamie

[blukangoo]

Originally Posted by jfalesi

hmmm... is that a disc brake proportioning valve?

Nope, I have drums all the way around.
Don´t really know what you are talking about either.
Is there something on the picture that I don´t see?

Originally Posted by jfalesi

My sister is flying to Strausburg, France tomorrow. Maybe you could cruise over there with your V8's and make her feel at home! While you're at it, invade France. Don't worry, they'll surrender.

My wife wouldn´t be too happy if I told her I was driving to France to meet somebodies sister.
I need all my money for the truck anyways, can´t afford to drive to France even though Strausburg is only 2.5 Hours away.

[Longhorn Man]

My wife wouldn´t be too happy if I told her I was driving to France to meet somebodies sister.

If you replace the word sister, with the word wife, You'd be amazed at the whole new attitude you'd get from your wife!

[LONGHAIR]

Please don't double post. It is too hard for everyone to keep straight.

[mnunn454]

Yes, TH400 needs a switch in the electric wire that goes to the side of the tranny to activate the kickdown. In stock applications, the switch is usually located there by the carb, or inside near the gas pedal. The switch you show looks like an original and may work fine with the right bracket (fab'd or bought).

I'm running a TH400 in my 69 with a B&M switch mounted near the carb (Holley now, but once was an Eddy #1406).

I doubt you'll find a bracket for that particular switch onto a 1407, but that's just my opinion. It wouldn't take much to make one, but when finished, it'll still be a bulky looking switch.

I glanced at the Edelbrock site and didn't see anything listed, but I know my over the counter B&M switch came with a bracket. It's not much prettier than yours, but it is a lot smaller and still should work. I'd call either/both of the two companies' help lines and ask for their recommendations.

Best.

[jfalesi]

That's not a proportioning valve hanging off the brake cylinders?

My sister is visiting her boyfriend, so it probably wouldn't go over so well anyway. She probably wouldn't notice the V8 brothers' cars as American anyway, since she's pretty oblivious to such things.

Originally Posted by blukangoo

Nope, I have drums all the way around.
Don´t really know what you are talking about either.
Is there something on the picture that I don´t see?



My wife wouldn´t be too happy if I told her I was driving to France to meet somebodies sister.
I need all my money for the truck anyways, can´t afford to drive to France even though Strausburg is only 2.5 Hours away.

[KFreddy]

This a cut and paste from an earlier post I wrote a few months ago, it should answer your questions.

The detent switch for a Th400 is not located on the carburetor, unless your using a Lokar detent shift box. The Th400's detent switch is located on the accelerator pedal. That being said.

The Th400 is factory calibrated to shift between approx 3000 and 4800 RPMs dependent on the original factory application/ rear end gear.

Three things determine shift points, the transmission vacuum modulator, the transmission governor and load/speed.

The vacuum modulator is located on the passenger side just next to the tranny. It has a set screw on it, this is good for minor shift point/ speed adjustments. High vacuum: soft and early shifts, lower vacuum firm and later shifts. I say minor adjustments because this is all in relation to available vacuum. Low throttle = lots of vacuum, high throttle = little or no vacuum, hence the tranny shifts at higher RPM when vacuum is low. You really can't adjust the vacuum when there is none. Ultimately the vacuum modulator is only good for adjusting part throttle upshifts, 200 to 400 RPMs at best, it will not affect WOT upshifts.

More importantly is the transmission governor, it overrides the vacuum modulator at about 3/4 to WOT (again because at high RPM there is little or no vacuum.) The governor is located at the rear of the main Trans case on passenger side on a Th400. The transmission governor is controlled by the detent switch (kick down switch) that is usually located on the gas peddle of a Th400 equipped car or truck, unfortunately factory detent switches are non-adjustable. Lokar makes adjustable detent switches, also know as kick down kits; however this kit needs to be relocated from being gas pedal controlled to carburetor controlled. A better and more direct solution is that the transmission governor is adjustable. These adjustments can be made because the transmission governor is composed of weights and springs that are geared to the Trans output shaft. There are two outer (primary) and two inner (secondary) weights, and two springs. The inner, secondary, weights mainly affect full throttle 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. The outer, primary, weights mainly affect the part-throttle 1-2-3 shifts. If your shifts occur too soon you need lighter springs and/or smaller weights. If the shifts are too late, you need stiffer springs. B&M and TCI make governor recalibration kits. Transmission governor adjustments however will take a bit of trial and error to dial in.

(As a side note there are usually ink stamp numbers on transmission governors ranging from 11,13,15,17 etc., up to 23, 25 and 27. I do not know the correlation of these #s i.e. line pressure, spring tension, weights, rear gear ratio; but I do know that the higher the # the later automatic up-shifts will occur. A 25 or 27 stamp most likely had a 2.73 or 3.08 factory gear and an 11 or 13 stamp most likely came with a factory 4.56 or 4.11 gear.)

The third factor is load and speed and power, taking the above into account the valve body is internally calibrated to up-shift in a predetermined range based on a combination of engine load and speed. They are also designed to downshift when conditions require additional RPM to maintain vehicle speed or more commonly when we nail the fun pedal.

To gain total control of a Th400, installation of both a governor recalibration kit, a shift kit and some very light tinkering with the transmission vacuum modulator should do the trick.

[blukangoo]

OK, here we go! I am going to answer you all in one Reply.

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

If you replace the word sister, with the word wife, You'd be amazed at the whole new attitude you'd get from your wife!

That reminds me of a joke I heard a while back. 2 guys were talking about vacation and where they were going. The one guy said he´s flying to France. The other asked if he was taking his wife with him? He said to him "Would you take Beer to the Oktoberfest?
If I told my wife, pack your stuff we are driving to france, she´d think I was nuts. We don´t need to go to france.

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Please don't double post. It is too hard for everyone to keep straight.

Sorry about that, I edited something and I guess it didn´t work right. I deleted the double Post.

Originally Posted by mnunn454

The switch is usually located there by the carb, or inside near the gas pedal. The switch you show looks like an original and may work fine with the right bracket (fab'd or bought).

I doubt you'll find a bracket for that particular switch onto a 1407, but that's just my opinion. It wouldn't take much to make one, but when finished, it'll still be a bulky looking switch.

I glanced at the Edelbrock site and didn't see anything listed, but I know my over the counter B&M switch came with a bracket. It's not much prettier than yours, but it is a lot smaller and still should work. I'd call either/both of the two companies' help lines and ask for their recommendations.

Best.

I can´t put it down by the pedal. Maybe there is a way but that would be too much work. The linkage goes from the pedal straight out through the firewall. See the pic.
I was hoping that someone had already did this and had some good pics. I guess I will be the first to put up pics when I get it to work.
I already wrote to Edelbrock but I guess I will have to wait for an answer. I checked out the site too for brackets, I think I seen every product they sell looking for one. Thanks for the info anyways.

Originally Posted by jfalesi

That's not a proportioning valve hanging off the brake cylinders?

I guess it might be. All I know is if I don´t put it in there I would have to buy new brake lines. There is an electrical connector on it and I think it goes to my brake warning light, I´m not sure. If I did have one in there, I don´t think the germans would care as long as the truck passed the brake test.

Originally Posted by KFreddy

This a cut and paste from an earlier post I wrote a few months ago, it should answer your questions.

The detent switch for a Th400 is not located on the carburetor, unless your using a Lokar detent shift box. The Th400's detent switch is located on the accelerator pedal.

The vacuum modulator is located on the passenger side just next to the tranny. It has a set screw on it.

Lokar makes adjustable detent switches, also know as kick down kits; however this kit needs to be relocated from being gas pedal controlled to carburetor controlled.

Tinkering with the transmission vacuum modulator should do the trick.

That´s a great write-up! Thanks! I will keep that all in mind.
Most of that I already knew and the only thing that came close to what I am looking for is the kit from Lokar.

I can´t tinker with anything or try the other stuff until I get the switch mounted.
I looked at the modulator I got and the only screw on it is the one holding it on to the transmission. I can´t see any screw for an adjustment.
I can´t wait to hear what Edelbrock sais about it.
Next week I am going to go to a shop close to here that fixes US cars and see what he thinks.

Thanks again for the answers evrybody.

[krue]

The prop valve on your master cylinder is the one for drum/drum so you're okay there.

[blukangoo]

Originally Posted by krue

The prop valve on your master cylinder is the one for drum/drum so you're okay there.

Kind of getting off the subject but I think I will just ask here instead of opening another thread.
Thanks for the info. Is it adjustable? Was I right about the warning light or is the wire for something else?

[krue]

The wire is for your warning light. It's not really a proportioning valve since you have drums front and back the pressure they operate at is the same, it's more a splitter block and it's not adjustable.

[blukangoo]

Originally Posted by krue

The wire is for your warning light. It's not really a proportioning valve since you have drums front and back the pressure they operate at is the same, it's more a splitter block and it's not adjustable.

That´s just about what I thought. Thanks again.

[krue]

No problem.

[mnunn454]

Originally Posted by KFreddy

.................
The detent switch for a Th400 is not located on the carburetor, unless your using a Lokar detent shift box. The Th400's detent switch is located on the accelerator pedal. That being said. .

KFreddy, I agree w/everything in your post except this part of your statement

I double checked the Chevelles.com forum before responding, some early Chevy's (67 vintage and earlier) had a TH400 kickdown switch mounted at the carb and it looks just like the picture posted at the top.

[71tahoe]

Originally Posted by blukangoo

I looked at the modulator I got and the only screw on it is the one holding it on to the transmission. I can´t see any screw for an adjustment.

On my TH350 the adjustment screw is inside the modulator. You have to take the vacuum hose off the end to get to it. It requires either an allen wrench or small screwdriver.

[KFreddy]

Originally Posted by mnunn454

KFreddy, I agree w/everything in your post except this part of your statement

I double checked the Chevelles.com forum before responding, some early Chevy's (67 vintage and earlier) had a TH400 kickdown switch mounted at the carb and it looks just like the picture posted at the top.

Having thick skin I will gladly take your correction squarely on the chin Albeit I will counter with an explanation. Yes there are several types of Th400s; they are; 2-speed Jetaway trans '64?, 3-speed Super Turbine 300 (ST300 or 300THM) '64?-'65, 3-speed Super Turbine 400 '64?-'67, a Th375 a Th425, and the venerable 3-speed Standard Th400 '68 to '83 or in special cases '84. In late '83 Gm started to phase out the Th400 replacing it with the 200-4R and 700R4 however from '87 to '91 the Th400 had a short resurgence and the nomenclature for the Th400 changed, becoming a 3L80. After '91 Gm strictly installed either the 200-4R or the 700R4, aka 4L60.(Not 4L60e,) between '93 and '94 the th400 again made a comeback as the 4L80 then the 4L80e that is still used to this day.

Generally speaking any early incarnation of the Th400 ie, "Jetaway, ST300, Super Turbine 400, Th375 and the Th425 were used for Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Pontiac also Jaguar, Hudson, Rolls Royce, Jeep, AM General and Ferrari. Chevrolet cars or trucks did not use these transmissions, think Power-glide in so far as auto transmissions.

Sorry for the lengthy history lesson, now to answer the question at hand. The kick-down, detent provision on any carburetor exists by and large for a Th350 tranny. If you have a true early model Th400 (3-speed Super Turbine 400,) that carb detent provision can also be used firstly because an early Th400, Super Turbine, has a switch pitch trans or converter, an early form of lockup. Secondly for the kick down switch. There are two tell tale ways of knowing what Th400 you are working with. See pictures below: If you have two connections on your Th400 it is an earlier model, hence the use for a vacuum carb activated detent switch that activates the converter pitch. So one connection is for the converter pitch and the other connection is for the kick down switch. IDing your tranny will tell you what type of detent switch you should be using, peddle activated or carb activated.

Keep in mind that everything I say might be wrong

[ETsC10]

My '68's have that set-up with Qjets..these pics were sent to me a while back...also a link for the striker--http://www.drclassic.com/catalog/Camaro/Transmission/M00430.html
Do test your switch; new ones are about 175.00! I revived one by soaking it in WD40 for a week (take the boof off 1st). Good luck. ET

[blukangoo]

Here we go again. Couldn´t write back sooner, I was in the shop.

Originally Posted by mnunn454

KFreddy, I agree w/everything in your post except this part of your statement

I double checked the Chevelles.com forum before responding, some early Chevy's (67 vintage and earlier) had a TH400 kickdown switch mounted at the carb and it looks just like the picture posted at the top.

I am going to check Chevelles.com when I have time. The switch is on my carb and there isn´t any signs that it was on the accelerator pedal.

Originally Posted by 71tahoe

On my TH350 the adjustment screw is inside the modulator. You have to take the vacuum hose off the end to get to it. It requires either an allen wrench or small screwdriver.

I will just have check that out when I get the switch mounted. Thanks!

Originally Posted by KFreddy

Having thick skin I will gladly take your correction squarely on the chin Albeit I will counter with an explanation. Yes there are several types of Th400s; they are; 2-speed Jetaway trans '64?, 3-speed Super Turbine 300 (ST300 or 300THM) '64?-'65, 3-speed Super Turbine 400 '64?-'67, a Th375 a Th425, and the venerable 3-speed Standard Th400 '68 to '83 or in special cases '84. In late '83 Gm started to phase out the Th400 replacing it with the 200-4R and 700R4 however from '87 to '91 the Th400 had a short resurgence and the nomenclature for the Th400 changed, becoming a 3L80. After '91 Gm strictly installed either the 200-4R or the 700R4, aka 4L60.(Not 4L60e,) between '93 and '94 the th400 again made a comeback as the 4L80 then the 4L80e that is still used to this day.

Generally speaking any early incarnation of the Th400 ie, "Jetaway, ST300, Super Turbine 400, Th375 and the Th425 were used for Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Pontiac also Jaguar, Hudson, Rolls Royce, Jeep, AM General and Ferrari. Chevrolet cars or trucks did not use these transmissions, think Power-glide in so far as auto transmissions.

Sorry for the lengthy history lesson, now to answer the question at hand. The kick-down, detent provision on any carburetor exists by and large for a Th350 tranny. If you have a true early model Th400 (3-speed Super Turbine 400,) that carb detent provision can also be used firstly because an early Th400, Super Turbine, has a switch pitch trans or converter, an early form of lockup. Secondly for the kick down switch. There are two tell tale ways of knowing what Th400 you are working with. See pictures below: If you have two connections on your Th400 it is an earlier model, hence the use for a vacuum carb activated detent switch that activates the converter pitch. So one connection is for the converter pitch and the other connection is for the kick down switch. IDing your tranny will tell you what type of detent switch you should be using, peddle activated or carb activated.

Keep in mind that everything I say might be wrong

That´s about a story and a half but thanks. Learn something new every day. Did I mention that I have a TH400/375? I got told that when I was buying the seals for it. I will add some pictures at the bottom.

Originally Posted by ETsC10

My '68's have that set-up with Qjets..these pics were sent to me a while back...also a link for the striker--http://www.drclassic.com/catalog/Camaro/Transmission/M00430.html
Do test your switch; new ones are about 175.00! I revived one by soaking it in WD40 for a week (take the boof off 1st). Good luck. ET

That´s what I have looking for is pictures. Thanks alot!
Too bad its not an Edelbrock on the pictures but it gives me more ideas.
My switch works, I tested it the other day. Now all I need is a bracket like at the link you wrote. I am hoping that Mr. Edelbrock has an idea or a bracket that will work. Maybe they will write back one of these days.
Flies and bugs hate WD40 just as much as rubber parts. WD40 is better than a fly swatter.

Here are the pics before and just before we put it back in.

[KFreddy]

You replied, "Did I mention that I have a TH400/375?"

I should have paid attention to your sig, as that explains it all. A Th375 is nothing more than a TH400 with a TH350 output shaft and few less clutches.

[ChevLoRay]

KFfreddy, I had a '67 Skylark that had the 2-speed automatic, with a switch-pitch converter, all behind a 350 Buick w/4bbl. I loved the convertor, but I wasn't aware that it was a lockup convertor. I realize it changed pitch, but not that it locked.

You wrote about modulators. My TH400 doesn't have the kickdown attached. I had the valve body modified for firmer shifting, by an old drag racing friend. He put in a small modulator, painted black. He said that the color is relevent, although it may only apply to his suppliers. The only detractor in my situation is the lack of kickdown when I go around corners and wish for a lower gear. So, that has lead me to buy the Lokar stuff....kickdown switch, etc.

My truck was sans kickdown when I bought it. It had an Edelbrock 1406 on it. But the thing was jetted too rich and mileage suffered. I could have rebuilt it and changed the jetting, but I decided to buy an Edelbrock Q-Jet 750CFM. This carb is much leaner-running. But it made no difference to the transmission.

I have been told of people who put a momentary switch under the gas pedal that would be activated when you floor the pedal. Another way was to just mount a switch inside the cab that you could activate at will. My transmission friend checked my tranny out and there is no problem except for the lack of a kickdown switch/linkage.

[KFreddy]

LoRay,

The tranny you had in your '67 Skylark, was most likely a special order transmission, 2-speed Jetaway trans with a switch-pitch converter, aka variable vane. I mis-wrote by saying it was an early form of lockup and I stand corrected, I seem to be doing alot of that lately The switch pitch Jetaway actually acted as a variable speed stall converter, dependent on the position of the switch on the throttle linkage which kicks in the high-stall speed at idle and at WOT. It did not lock up, sorry for that statement.

In your situation the lack of a peddle kick down switch, detent, as you explained completely takes the transmission governor out of the equation, as you already know. Hence Zero down shifts at WOT. However modifying your valve body for firmer shifting, I assume the installation of a Trans-Go kit or the like, now gives you full manual control of the tranny but no control of the governor. The Lokar TH-400 Electric kick down Kit that you purchased will bring the tranny governor back into the mix, thereby allowing you to have down shifts at WOT. The Lokar unit will be mounted to the carburetor bracket and the return spring kit mounts to the driver’s side rear stud of the carburetor, bypassing the need for a throttle controlled kick down switch.

In so far as mounting a switch inside the cab that you could, hand, activate at will. My answer would be yikes... This method is an old RV trick for anticipation of an uphill climb, surely not something that you want to have to do every time you mash the pedal and have to press a switch at the same time. I will eventually cook the tranny and the converter.