Is this going to be enough ???

[FlatBrokeRacing]

This is what I made for a c-notch kit. You think it will be strong enough or is it going to need to be stronger?

All feedback is welcome.

[hotrodhomi]

If you need to notch it that much I would use a step notch.

[FlatBrokeRacing]

My goal is to notch as much as possible with out having to cut the bed floor.

[BigMike]

I think cutting out the entire "red" portion in the notch you made would be too much. There needs to more support other than just the top plate. Maybe if you left at least an inch and then boxed it in ??? I'd get some more responses from some of the frame guys before cutting into it, gotta be safe about it.

Frizzle Fry, Rokcrln and Porterbuilt come to mind about frame guys...Maybe PM them and see what they say.

Mike

[krue]

If you're cutting out the entire frame in the center of the piece you'll bend the plate on the top of what you built, it's got nothing keeping it from bending.IMO

[N2TRUX]

Something else to look at is where you made your cuts. By endding you cuts at an intersection with another cut line you have left a potential point for failure. The frame flexing will fatigue these points and cause stress cracks.

The best way to prevent this if you have to use a saw to cut your metal is drill a hole at the point of intersection. This leaves a radius at the point of intersection which is much less prone to cracking.

Your going to need to box the inside of your frame too.

[jamis]

Originally Posted by krue

If you're cutting out the entire frame in the center of the piece you'll bend the plate on the top of what you built, it's got nothing keeping it from bending.IMO

+1

It needs to be more like this with a U-channel or a half-round tubing welded to the side plate.
The plate on top is not doing much. Look on-line and use the common bolt on one they sell for a reference.

Welding it on and boxing the inside will also make it better

[67Fleet]

Not only is that notch unsafe like already mentioned, but if you use a notch that big you're going to have to cut your bed floor anyways. The rear diff will come up through the bed. Before I tore my truck down to step notch it I had a CPP bolt-in c-notch. I took the bumpstops out of it and the rear axle was buried into it. I had to cut out a 6x6 square in the bed for the rear diff to come up through.

[FlatBrokeRacing]

Big mike,
I posed the same question on another forum and was told the exact same thing that you said about leaving 1 inch in there.
N2TRUX,
The point you made had been addressed on the other forum about the overlapping cuts and possible stress fractures.
Jamis,
When I decided to make this piece I wanted to cut it in a c-channel but had to use what I had. Cut off wheels don't make good round corners. I can make two new pieces to replace this one pictured if need be, then I would be able to leave that 1 in portion in the frame as well as in the new piece for added structrual integrity.
67 Fleet,
The only reason I have made that much of a notch is to ensure that I have ample suspension travel. I will probably never need it, but I want it just in case. As far as it being unsafe, I guess what I am having a problem understanding is how is it unsafe? The portion of matireal on the top of the frame rail is at least 4 times as thick as the original frame and probably twice as dense. The actual side piece is twice as thick as the original frame.

If someone could explain that to me where I can understand it better, I would appriciate it a lot more.
Nothing has been cut at all as of yet.

BigMike suggested to ask the true frame and chassis experts, I did that too, NO response as of yet. I honestly doubt that anyone that actually has these pieces to "SELL" is going to offer up a helping hand. They would rather make money off of me than help me do it my self with what I have laying around the house...

Anyone that reads this, PLEASE understand, I'm not trying to be a "Wizeguy" about the issue but some things just are not adding up.

I intend for this project to be a true "Bolt In" so the welding suggestions are not possible for me to accomplish.

Everyones feedback is positvely welcome.
Thanks again

[BigMike]

I understand that the top plate is 4x thicker than the stock material but it still leaves it open for bending and flexing. If you do not have a welder, I would either just cut up to the hole that the arrow is pointing to in jamis response OR I would go ahead and buy a properly made C-Notch for our trucks.

Also, as 67Fleet mentioned, a notch that big is too much unless you plan on cutting out the bed where the rear end (pumpkin) will hit. If you cut to the hole, you might still hit anyways but it will give you all the room you will need to drop the rear about 6 inches. Anymore than 6 inches and you'll have to step notch it.

As far as the "frame guys" they design and build all of their own pieces for the most part so they would have a better understanding of the frame integrity and what will work or not.

Mike

[FlatBrokeRacing]

OK,
Thanks Mike. That in itself made a lot of sence. I am going to go ahead and re-make my notch so that it has at least an inch or soo on the side.

Back to the drawing board as they say......

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by FlatBrokeRacing

OK,
Thanks Mike. That in itself made a lot of sence. I am going to go ahead and re-make my notch so that it has at least an inch or soo on the side.

Back to the drawing board as they say......

FlatBroke-

I would recommend leaving at least 2.5 inches of frame above the notch. Take a look at some of the "bolt-in" c-notch kits offered by companies such as CPP... try and model your design after theirs. As others have mentioned, you will never be able to take advantage of a deep notch if you intend to keep your bed floor stock.

[kevncar]

I am by no means an expert at this, but why don't you try setting the frame down on the axle and then measure the distance from the top of the pumpkin to the underside of the bed. That will be the depth that you need to cut up from the bottom of the frame.

Not to hijack, but I was going to try and notch my frame myself by just welding in a section of pipe and then boxing in the back side for a foot or so either side of the axle. Would this work? I have a buddy that says something bolt-in would be better because he said that the frame doesn't take to welding to new metal all that well. Is this true?

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by kevncar

..... I was going to try and notch my frame myself by just welding in a section of pipe and then boxing in the back side for a foot or so either side of the axle. Would this work?

Yes it will work. Thats exactly how the notch is done in my 77 Cheyenne. Unfortunately I don't have pics on the computer to show you. I'll post some up when I get back in town.

[FlatBrokeRacing]

Porterbuilt,
Thanks for your reply. I'm going to take that advice. For some reason it just was not sinking in earlier today. Sorry guys, I got a hard head.
Kevncar,
Your advice make a lot of sence as well. I believe I'm just gonna have to try it.
Don't worry about hijacking one of my threads, After all, arn't we all here to try and learn something. O-yeah, N2TRUX posted pics on how his truck is done further down in this section. It is in a thread titled "Home built c-notch kit" Very detailed pics.(step-by-step)

[FlatBrokeRacing]

OK,
I beefed up what I already had. Sandwiched the frame between 2 pieces of stock. Take a look at the pics and give me more feedback guys.
Thanks again...

[AirMale]

Sorry, still not strong enough. Do you have any more steel you can bolt on there....lol

[FlatBrokeRacing]

YUP..........

I sure do.

[gringoloco]

Man, that seems like a lot of trouble to go through for something you can buy for 50 bucks...
http://www.*****************/Bolt-inC-NotchKit.php#
[img]http://www.*****************/images/products/Bolt-in_C_-Notch_Kit.jpg[/img]

[Rokcrln]

Well here's my .02 What you have now is not going to be stronge enough at all. What you have is 3-4 times thicker than stock but it is flat! Think of it this way if you were to take a tin can and cut it open it would have no real strength but when formed as a can it will hold your body weight when standing on the end. You notch is the same thing when flat it has no real strength even at 4x the size but put a few bends into it and it will do so much more. Now your frame has even more stress then most of these guys since yours is a leaf spring set up. This adds more stress to the rear section of frame than on a typ coil spring set up. When I build my notches I try and leave about 2 - 2.5" like Porter said and then plate the inside as well. I know you said welding was out of the question so take a new piece of plate and mark out the notch and take a drill and drill two holes in the upper corners were your 2" mark will be and then use your cut off wheel to notch it out with out over cutting and giving a place for it to vrack like mentioned above. Then drill it and bolt it in.

Now to get as much notch as you can before hitting the bed floor take your tape and see what you have from the top of the diff to the bottom of the floor. this is now your total down travel before contact. Use that same demention and mesure from the top of the axel tube and make a mark on the frame and that will be the top of your notch before contact. Any more notch than this and it is a waste and a sacrafice of strength as well.

Take a look at project "Low Buck Truck Build" and you will see the last set of notch's that I did. Mine is notched as far as I could with out hitting the bed floor as well so it may help you understand what I am trying to explane.

Kevin
LFD Inc.

[Shane]

dude ... the time you already have invested along with the money in the materials, you could have ALREADY purchased a ready-made unit

[jamis]

If you had a coil spring suspension that MAY work because all the suspension pressure is in front of the notch, and only the weight of the bed is putting downward pressure on the frame aft of the notch.

You have leaf springs so you have an upwards pressure on both side of the notch and MAY cause it to bow in the middle with no support being provide from stretching the bottom of the notch.

Like I say it MAY fail or it MAY NOT, its your truck you make the decision, everyone just gave their opinions like you asked. We all cut corners to save money, you have to decide for your self, where to save the money..

I have lowerd leaf spring suspensions with a flip plus 2" blocks and never had to run that much notch.

[FlatBrokeRacing]

ROCKRLN,
That is the explanitation I was lookin for. The big question was is it strong enough, if not Why. Thank you.

[HOOPTY67]

the thickness of the plate is not what gives it strength. the shape its formed in is where the strenght comes from. A triangle, circle or L shape is strong. A flat shape, even if its half inch thick, can be bent by applying pressure at the ends. Additionally, those cuts in the side of the plate from the saw have created stress risers and the plate is going to crack there. Sharp points will also create stress risers as well.


You need to box in your notch or gussett the top portion of it. Yes you'll end up cutting into the bed floor but that is the price you have to pay for going low. If you dont want the holes in the bed then mount the bed on spacers, raise the bed floor up the same amount as the spacers and weld it back in place. then you'll gain the space you need and you can build any size notch you want without cutting holes in the floor.

my 2 pennies.

[FlatBrokeRacing]

Hey Hoopty67,
Thanks for takin a look. I took the advice of Jamis illustration and made a cut night before last.
Let me see if I can put up a pic or two real quick...