advice on 5 speed swap, suspension mods on 60-66 panel truck

[Chuck78]

I'm dying to find a 60-66 2WD 1/2 ton panel truck project sometime in the next year or so. Looking for some advice on some modifications.
If I decide I want more than a 700R4 (od= must have), I was thinking of swapping in a 5 speed tranny. Some stronger T-5 models may do, but might need something beefier. I really liked the 1/2 ton version (MG5) of the NV3500 1988+ 85mm 5 speed, 4.01 1st and .73 od. Anyone ever swapped in one of these? I was wondering about trans tunnel clearance (probably fine?), shifter location (I guess it'd work fine), crossmember modifications (driveline angle is important), and most of all, the hydraulic clutch installation/fabrication/setup. I assume the input shaft would be the correct length, but haven't checked.
Anyone ever done at least a hydraulic clutch swap on any of these trucks? Tips, parts used, etc?

Secondly, really wanting something that drives nice and will haul. I was told that the whole front end of a 73-87 will bolt on. I liked the idea of more modern suspension geometry and steering. Not sure if swapping the a-arms from my 89 would have much if any effect of the suspension geometry, or even if this stuff would really swap (and make an improvement). I know 63+ had redesigned front suspension.

Wanting some heavier duty springs in case I do some towing, so spring advice is appreciated as well. Leafs I could figure out, any tips on rear coil sources for 3/4 ton payload would be appreciated. Don't want a monster truck, but don't want a sagging rear! Are coil rears as good as leafs for heavy duty use? I'm leaning towards a 63 or 64-66 GMC (GMC's came with leafs primarily, right?), but my options are open.

Lots more questions, but this will do for now. Glad I found this board!

Thanks,

Chuck

[Chuck78]

for tranny torque rating background info, engine will probably be a 350 with vortec heads and mild cam. My spare 406 sbc with a small RV cam and some vortecs would go good, but this has to get decent gas mileage. torque will be decent, but but no massive hp #'s. reliable economy and power is important, but if you still think I'll break a World Class T-5 from a Blazer/S15/S10, then speak up!


Oh, also, what rear end gear ratios were common on these? Is it anybody's guess? Looking specifically for a panel truck unless I find a great deal on a 60-66 'burb.

[wild one]

Hello Chuck,

As far as a 5 speed transmission swap is concerned, you might want to look over at http://www.stovebolt.com/bboard/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi and use the search feature ( top right corner under "Stovebolt page forums" ), enter "T5" and be prepared to look at about 300 or so posts worth of others experiences.

A Borg Warner T5 out of a S10 will hold up well so long as its not abused, or find a camero T5 and swap on a S10 tail shaft for the better shifter position ( once you read up on the swap info you will know what I am referring to ) and have the stronger, better gearing and some more strength.

A far as load carrying capacity is concerned, I have lowered my 66' panel 5 inches in the rear and run a set of Air Lift air springs in the rear coils. They add about 1000 lbs of load carrying capacity to my truck when i need it, otherwise they are run @ about 2 psi and the ride is still nice and smooth.

For the front end disc brakes etc, check in the FAQ section of this board, their is ALOT of great info and how to's regarding front end swaps. I myself used a 1975 GMC for parts to put discs on my 66' - you can read about it here - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=209956 . If you have any other ?'s, just ask - this is a great board with alot of knowledgeable folks.

Oh, and in case you're interested, here is a photo of my panel truck

[rodnok1]

I put TRW CS6101 h/d springs(3/4 ton) on the rear of my '64 panel. Wayyyy too bouncy with no load, I swapped to a pair of variable rate 1/2 ton h/d springs(can get number if you need) from TRW. They ride nice and haul ok. I also put load assist shocks on the back(monroe). I keep both sets of springs around in case I need to haul real heavy then I swap them(1 hour). I have taken the coil assist springs off the shocks also.

[jchav62]

That's a bad panel! I like it..My buddy has a 65.

[Chuck78]

Originally Posted by rodnok1

I put TRW CS6101 h/d springs(3/4 ton) on the rear of my '64 panel. Wayyyy too bouncy with no load, I swapped to a pair of variable rate 1/2 ton h/d springs(can get number if you need) from TRW. They ride nice and haul ok. I also put load assist shocks on the back(monroe). I keep both sets of springs around in case I need to haul real heavy then I swap them(1 hour). I have taken the coil assist springs off the shocks also.

If you get a chance to find that spring #, that would be much appreciated.

Also, any advice on where to buy a fiberglass hood and maybe fenders from? I know from my 2nd gen Camaro experiences (on my 4th 70-81, 71 RS/SS396), Unlimited is likely to send you some pos that won't even come close to lining up even after re-shaping and re-glassing the edges!

[Chuck78]

Also, will the rear end from my 89 Suburban (same as 73-87 trucks, suburbans didn't change over until 92 to the new body and chassis) swap directly into this? I briefly read about having to change the rear end with a T-5 swap. Just track down leaf spring hardware, and that is a bolt on, correct? Are the coil setups going to be better handling than leafs? Or is there a popular/favorite rear end to swap into this that's the right width (with posi and good gears)???

[rodnok1]

Part number TRW cc603

Haven't heard anything good about any aftermarket fiberglass parts from anyone...at least the steel you can make work.

[Back in Black 66]

I pulled a t5 from a 86 camaro that was in relativly good shape and put it in my 66 step-side with a 350hp 350 and lets just say i didnt hold up very well. the tranny was meant to adapt to a stock 305 in a light camaro vs a heavy chunk of steel like these types of trucks. i lost fifth gear and reverse since they ride on the same shaft after about a month. so if you do plan on taking one out of a camaro, plan on having it beefed up for anything past 280hp-300hp or expect troubles.

[12volt]

I am working on putting a NV4500 in my 66 I will let you know how it goes.

[Chuck78]

Yes, please let me know how that goes.

I was afraid of that with a T-5. I'm a seasoned veteran at 67-81 Camaro retrofits, upgrades, etc... but just getting into the classic truck thing after falling in love the 60-66 'burbs and panel trucks as an option to replace my rusty 89 Suburban (great truck). Seems that most of the trannies I am familiar with that will hold up to a modified camaro engine even, almost all of them will put the shifter in a bad spot on a truck. The T-5 was one of the few that I knew could be made to adapt to a truck shifter location. They have a bad rap even with muusclecar guys. Factory torque rating is less than 300ft-lbs in a camaro!
Not building a truck to make it go really fast, but hauling or towing a trailer is definitely in the picture, and sometimes my foot gets a little on the heavy side... Not going to be dumping the clutch or power shifting really ever, but I want something that will hold up.
That's why when I discovered the NV3500, I thought maybe that would hold up better than a T-5 and cost less than a 4 speed with a gear vendors overdrive. a 700R4 would be cheaper (have a spare already, needing rebuilt), but a 5 speed with a deep first and a steep o.d. would be real nice. Don't want a "granny gear," and that's what it sounds like the NV4500 has. Too deep to make useful every time, even if I put highway gears in the rear end - the jump would be a bit much from 1-2.

Now I know the NV3500 is still just made for the light 1/2 ton trucks, but I think that is my best bet. I know they were made from 88 to maybe 95, so I was thinking there had to have been some models with manual speedometer.
The NV3550 was an upgraded version, but the only reference I can find on those shows it behind 6 cyl jeep engines or something like that.
I'm not planning on running the stovebolt 6 if my project still has it, gong chevy V-8 for parts availability and economy options. I may rip out the engine, entire front suspension and steering, and rear end with leafs and all, out of my 89 'burb to donate to the 60-66 project. Might even try to swap/splice wiring harnesses to use my factory TBI (runs GREAT, 20mpg hwy from 5000lb suburban!) and swap on some vortec heads to that 350.
Otherwise a Quadrajet will keep it simple, reliable, and the best balance of economy and power at the same time.

Most people on the stovebolt site don't talk about the NV3500, because they have the integrated bellhousing, and it won't bolt up to a stovebolt 6! That's why those guys only talk much about the NV4500 and the old truck 4 speeds (and T-5's). Didn't find much useful info on there about the 3500 due to that.

[Jonboy]

Chuck, it sounds like you have the perfect donor vehicle already. I was going to try to find an 89-91 Sub to build up my 66 'burb with (when I ever get around to it). I figured on using the engine and trans (going to keep it an auto), front suspension, and anything else I could pirate. You can also sell the front clip to the 73-87 guys and make some of the money back, along with a lot of the other goodies that bolt right up. I figured on using an aftermarket harness, but mostly because I am lazy.

[Chuck78]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

Chuck, it sounds like you have the perfect donor vehicle already. I was going to try to find an 89-91 Sub to build up my 66 'burb with (when I ever get around to it). I figured on using the engine and trans (going to keep it an auto), front suspension, and anything else I could pirate. I figured on using an aftermarket harness, but mostly because I am lazy.

Yeah, seems like I can make just about everything from my 89 'burb work on my next project. Love that truck, drives great, runs great, 250,000 miles and rides almost like a new truck - other than the extra body flex from the bed and body supports rusting out! That's why I'd love to swap most of it over to a 60-66 panel truck next summer. Just gotta ditch those swirl port heads in favor of some late model vortecs (best small block head chevy ever made, late model trucks up to '99 I believe). Maybe swap in a new RV cam or something fairly mild. And then some Hearthrob or Flowmaster mufflers and headers!

I've pretty much narrowed it down to two trannies now, if I go to manual. The mandatory hydraulic clutch on the NV3500 sounds alright to me. Nice ratios to choose from in a 5 speed as well. Probably would do fine (power handling) with this, but even though it's a bit tougher than a T-5, still not certain on it. I haven't found out about any manual speedo outputs on them (probably never made), but after thinking about it, I would have no problem swapping to an electronic pickup speedometer and tach. Just another cool looking project.
The other tranny would be I believe the 82-86 truck 4 speed that primarily came behind the diesel v8's, with practically the same ratios as a 700R4 (3.09 first and .73 4th?). People complain about 1-2 being a big jump (same with the R4's, not the best for a hi-po engine with a very peaky power curve), but with a 350 (or maybe my spare 400?) with vortecs and a mild RV cam, I think I will have quite a broad powerband that will have no problem on seat of the pants acceleration from any rpm. These things can definitely handle a fair amount of power, as they were primarily a mopar used trans, and (with different ratios) were the trannies from 64+ that were put behind the 440 6 packs and 426 hemi's. These have aluminum cases, some of the mopars had iron cases. Only hangup is no option for a hydraulic clutch without major fabrication and machine work, as the bellhousing bolt pattern is quite an oddball for these GM variatons (MY6 I believe is the code). Kinda half mopar, half GM looking pattern on trans, have to use the matching bellhousing. It's a beast, looks like it'll fit a 12" clutch, definitely works with 11".

These trannies are pretty hard to find nowadays with the GM bellhousing and GM input shaft.

I wonder if there would be any gains to swap in my 89 rear drum brakes in place of the stock 66's? I suppose if they were larger diameter, then go for it. Wonder if the old rears wheel cylinders would be compatible with the 89 master cylinder? Might prefer to track down the older (non-plastic reservoir) master cylinder, suppose that would be easy to match up. Not sure if my differential would have the leafs in the correct place to bolt up to the 66 frame. Also, I think the older leafs were narrower than the newer ones (not sure on specifics), so might have to do a little work, or at minimum re-drilling, to get the 89 leafs to bolt up to the 60-66 frame if I go that route. Might just stick with the coil setup. Not sure what advantage either would have, but most all modern 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks all have leafs, so I figure that must be for a reason on the utilitarian side of things. It will be mostly a driver but will occasionally haul a car trailer or some equipment, and some heavy loads now and then. Someone on here said something about some air assist shocks or something,t hat you can inflate when carrying a heavy load? Maybe the coils would work out fine with something like that.

Enough for now. Any more advice or opinions?