Roller Rocker question - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

dion · 10-06-2002, 07:13 PM

I want to switch mine out for Rollers but I've been told that they won't do me any good unless I'm at 6500 RPM, true or BS? Wouldn't they help in all around driving??

72chevyLWB · 10-06-2002, 07:16 PM

I heard the only way you will tell a difference is if you run it on the drag strip to check your time. You will never notice it just screwing around though. as far as RPM's go I'm not sure. I would like them, but for $250 just to possibly gain a tenth? I'm not sure about that.

Longhorn Man · 10-06-2002, 07:18 PM

If you got the cash, they are awsme.
Now roller cam/lifters...that is a good investment. The cam will last forever instead of 100K. Practicly no wear.

mikep · 10-06-2002, 07:19 PM

Unless you are changing ratios the roller rockers wont do anything for you. In fact they'll wear out faster than factory type. aluminum fatigues over time and WILL crack . Some say 30,000 miles. Some say less and some say more . Plus the needle bearings and their roller tips also wear out . Ever seen an actual side by side dyno test of needle bearing and roller tip rocker against stamped rockers? Me neither. Ive seen a lot of claims but no actual dyno numbers. I figure if there were a measurable difference the manufacturers would be shoving it in your face.

mooneyes · 10-06-2002, 07:25 PM

they also say with less friction u will get better mpg...dont know if it will be noticable or not...and just for reference..me and my dad used to build big blocks for dirt modifieds..always had great luck with HARLAND SHARP roller rockers...broke a few CRANE ...only know 1 guy that broke a HARLAND SHARP and the rocker arm was about 20-25 years old..he called them up and had it replaced...no charge...oh yea Harland Sharp himself answered the phone...just my 2 cents worth

*Zkast* · 10-06-2002, 07:40 PM

Any time you can remove friction, you'll increase HP. How much? Would you physicaly notice the power increase? I doubt it.

But here is one very good pro for going to atleast roller tip rockers. When the rocker arm pushes down on the valve it slides across the surface of the valve, not much but enough to wear the guides over time. Roller tip rockers eliminate this problem therefore increasing time before you install the 2nd set of valve guide seals lol. Also, if you have installed stronger valve springs, the force applied to the sliding motion is increased.

IMHO - If your building stock or dont have the cash for at least roller tips, dont worry about them.
If your building performance, do any and everything you can to reduce the friction/drag causing componants.

Longhorn Man · 10-06-2002, 07:45 PM

Hmmmm, I have been toying with the idea of the CRANE roller tipped stamped steel rockers. $100, seems good to me.
Then again, i guess I can scrap that idea, I doubt they make them for caddys.

cableguy0 · 10-06-2002, 08:13 PM

i have proform roller rockers cost me like 160 bucks and havent had one single problem out of them in like 20,000 miles. i have pulled the valve covers and they have no signs of wear whatsoever . i dunno how much performance u gain but im happy with em

Church · 10-06-2002, 08:14 PM

One other thing to think about is if you have less friction you have less heat, and where there is less friction there is usually less wear and tear (metal shavings) and usually more power. You were talking about using just a roller tip right? If you decide to get them try to get the ones that have the full needle bearing fulcrum. This is where the big power gains come in. I have heard that you can gain up to 35 HP just by switching to an all roller engine. I have swithed mine to all roller (cam and rockers) and I'm also using an electric fan as well to try to free up as much HP as possible and to get the most MPG I can too!

mikep · 10-06-2002, 08:28 PM

Iv'e "heard" about big power gains too. Ive just never seen any documenting evidence to back that up. I find that odd don't you? Ive used them on a dozen or so engines in the past and quite frankly never noticed any difference at all before and after wise. Maybe there is some difference in valve guide wear although once again I have never seen any documenting evidence to back up that claim. I know popular hot rodding did a write up a few months back where they pretty much said the roller tips were a waste of money.

My current engine uses roller bearings all over the place. Theyre called molecules of oil. They get changed every 3000 miles. There is not a lot of friction in an engine thanks to those guys. Thats kind of the point in using oil. If there were actual "friction" in an engine you'd be rebuilding your engine once a week.

crazy longhorn · 10-06-2002, 09:03 PM

I run comp cams roller tips on the longhorn. I have read that after about .480 lift, the stock rockers do a lot of "scrubin". the roller tips are said to be good to about 350# open pressure, after that you may want to go to a full roller rocker. I have heard some bad stories about the cheaper line on the Cranes(roller pins falling out). I dont have a lot of faith in aluminum rockers,things may be better now than several yrs ago......but they were a short lived thing. My thoughts are , go with the Harland Sharp, or look at a steel roller rocker(although a little morecash, it would be my choice for a street driven truck). good luck......Crazy AL

REPO1 · 10-06-2002, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longhornmail
If you got the cash, they are awsme.
Now roller cam/lifters...that is a good investment. The cam will last forever instead of 100K. Practicly no wear.

I wouldn't say that. I pulled the stock cam out of my '97 Z28 with 50,000 KM on it. The #1 lobe was worn through the hardening layer already. (Stock roller cam setup)

JD72 · 10-06-2002, 09:55 PM

IF you go from 1.5 to 1.6 yeh there should be a small gain just be sure you got the clearance and don't smack anything. As far as telling why driving no you will not notice a difference, if it was a supercharger or nitrous heck yeh. I feel they are a good investment thats just me, but I would go with the Harland where I worked we built buick V-6 for Busch cars and always used them.No problems at all and unde extreme pressures.

Longhorn Man · 10-07-2002, 12:07 AM

REPO1, your right, I should have said generally. Sounds like there was an oiling problem on that engine you speak of.
But in GENERAL, the roller cams do help with longevity and enable a more agressive camshaft lobe shape.
But this has nothing to do with rockers though.

dmnall · 10-07-2002, 01:05 AM

Well I have a question on this subject though, I am looking at doing a Cam swap but I was thinking of going Roller but from what I have heard that I need Screw in Rocker Studs, is this True ?? I know that my block can actually run the OEM Roller Lifter Set up that GM offered on 87 - newer blocks, Since I am running Corvette Fuelie (462 Casting) w/ 2.02 Valves, would I be able to run Roller Rocker Arms that are made to work on 3/8 " studs ??

Thank You,

Charlie

*Zkast* · 10-07-2002, 08:29 AM

If your springs are light enough you could... but I still wouldn't suggest it even then. Reason being, the roller camshafts have a much more aggresive ramp speed meaning they will open the valve much faster than a traditional flat tappet design. It's very possible that you will pull the stud if you do this. I know GM doesnt use screw-in studs on the L98 but they also aren't using a .550 lift spring in most cases.

If it were me? I'd have them pinned or machined for screw-in's.

nate68 · 10-07-2002, 09:54 PM

as long as their not gm stock stamped rockers, those suck and they're usually not true 1.5 ratio. on my old motor i went from stock rockers to roller rockers and it had a little power and idle had alittle more lope to it but it was mostly because they were true 1.5's compared to 1.4x that gm's are.

10-06-2002, 07:16 PM	#2
72chevyLWB Got 20's???? Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Aberdeen SD Posts: 1,451	I heard the only way you will tell a difference is if you run it on the drag strip to check your time. You will never notice it just screwing around though. as far as RPM's go I'm not sure. I would like them, but for $250 just to possibly gain a tenth? I'm not sure about that. __________________ 99 Silverado Ex-Cab 2wd, Bagged&WhippleCharged 02 Sierra Ex-Cab 4wd 2500 HD The 72 went down the road.

10-06-2002, 07:19 PM	#4
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	Unless you are changing ratios the roller rockers wont do anything for you. In fact they'll wear out faster than factory type. aluminum fatigues over time and WILL crack . Some say 30,000 miles. Some say less and some say more . Plus the needle bearings and their roller tips also wear out . Ever seen an actual side by side dyno test of needle bearing and roller tip rocker against stamped rockers? Me neither. Ive seen a lot of claims but no actual dyno numbers. I figure if there were a measurable difference the manufacturers would be shoving it in your face. __________________ No truck :-( Last edited by mikep; 10-06-2002 at 07:22 PM.

10-06-2002, 07:25 PM	#5
mooneyes Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slippery Rock PA USA Posts: 1,692	they also say with less friction u will get better mpg...dont know if it will be noticable or not...and just for reference..me and my dad used to build big blocks for dirt modifieds..always had great luck with HARLAND SHARP roller rockers...broke a few CRANE ...only know 1 guy that broke a HARLAND SHARP and the rocker arm was about 20-25 years old..he called them up and had it replaced...no charge...oh yea Harland Sharp himself answered the phone...just my 2 cents worth __________________ Ken Lyons, Slippery rock pa 68 short step 327 t10 4 gear 72 2wd blazer project 70 lwb 305/700r driver 78 caprice project 02 cavalier D.D ( hate it!!)

10-06-2002, 08:13 PM	#8
cableguy0 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Delta,Pa Posts: 14,950	i have proform roller rockers cost me like 160 bucks and havent had one single problem out of them in like 20,000 miles. i have pulled the valve covers and they have no signs of wear whatsoever . i dunno how much performance u gain but im happy with em __________________ Owner of North Point Car Care in Dundalk Md. We specialize in custom exhaust on both modern and classic vehicles. We are a full service auto shop from classics to modern vehicles. Feel free to contact me with questions. I will give a 10% discount to any board member. Last edited by cableguy0; 10-06-2002 at 09:49 PM.

10-06-2002, 08:14 PM	#9
Church Carolina Classic Trucks Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: The South Posts: 792	One other thing to think about One other thing to think about is if you have less friction you have less heat, and where there is less friction there is usually less wear and tear (metal shavings) and usually more power. You were talking about using just a roller tip right? If you decide to get them try to get the ones that have the full needle bearing fulcrum. This is where the big power gains come in. I have heard that you can gain up to 35 HP just by switching to an all roller engine. I have swithed mine to all roller (cam and rockers) and I'm also using an electric fan as well to try to free up as much HP as possible and to get the most MPG I can too! __________________

10-06-2002, 07:13 PM	#1
dion 72 Cheyenne Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,086	Roller Rocker question I want to switch mine out for Rollers but I've been told that they won't do me any good unless I'm at 6500 RPM, true or BS? Wouldn't they help in all around driving?? __________________ Burnout Idle 1972Cheyenne 1966/67Stouts

10-06-2002, 07:18 PM	#3
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	If you got the cash, they are awsme. Now roller cam/lifters...that is a good investment. The cam will last forever instead of 100K. Practicly no wear.

10-06-2002, 07:40 PM	#6
Zkast Account Suspended Join Date: May 2002 Location: Olathe, Kansas Posts: 929	Any time you can remove friction, you'll increase HP. How much? Would you physicaly notice the power increase? I doubt it. But here is one very good pro for going to atleast roller tip rockers. When the rocker arm pushes down on the valve it slides across the surface of the valve, not much but enough to wear the guides over time. Roller tip rockers eliminate this problem therefore increasing time before you install the 2nd set of valve guide seals lol. Also, if you have installed stronger valve springs, the force applied to the sliding motion is increased. IMHO - If your building stock or dont have the cash for at least roller tips, dont worry about them. If your building performance, do any and everything you can to reduce the friction/drag causing componants.

10-06-2002, 07:45 PM	#7
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Hmmmm, I have been toying with the idea of the CRANE roller tipped stamped steel rockers. $100, seems good to me. Then again, i guess I can scrap that idea, I doubt they make them for caddys.

10-06-2002, 08:28 PM	#10
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	Iv'e "heard" about big power gains too. Ive just never seen any documenting evidence to back that up. I find that odd don't you? Ive used them on a dozen or so engines in the past and quite frankly never noticed any difference at all before and after wise. Maybe there is some difference in valve guide wear although once again I have never seen any documenting evidence to back up that claim. I know popular hot rodding did a write up a few months back where they pretty much said the roller tips were a waste of money. My current engine uses roller bearings all over the place. Theyre called molecules of oil. They get changed every 3000 miles. There is not a lot of friction in an engine thanks to those guys. Thats kind of the point in using oil. If there were actual "friction" in an engine you'd be rebuilding your engine once a week. __________________ No truck :-( Last edited by mikep; 10-07-2002 at 12:15 AM.

10-06-2002, 09:03 PM	#11
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,402	I run comp cams roller tips on the longhorn. I have read that after about .480 lift, the stock rockers do a lot of "scrubin". the roller tips are said to be good to about 350# open pressure, after that you may want to go to a full roller rocker. I have heard some bad stories about the cheaper line on the Cranes(roller pins falling out). I dont have a lot of faith in aluminum rockers,things may be better now than several yrs ago......but they were a short lived thing. My thoughts are , go with the Harland Sharp, or look at a steel roller rocker(although a little morecash, it would be my choice for a street driven truck). good luck......Crazy AL

10-06-2002, 09:55 PM	#13
JD72 WTF Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: loganville, Ga. Posts: 118	IF you go from 1.5 to 1.6 yeh there should be a small gain just be sure you got the clearance and don't smack anything. As far as telling why driving no you will not notice a difference, if it was a supercharger or nitrous heck yeh. I feel they are a good investment thats just me, but I would go with the Harland where I worked we built buick V-6 for Busch cars and always used them.No problems at all and unde extreme pressures. __________________ Some people are wise, some people are otherwise. 72 cheyenne primer factory air lowered rallyes with flat caps flowmasters 12 bolt 3.73 350/350 combo needs rockers . Cowl hood installed. 81 Malibu wagon lowered with 17's bright ass yellow and v-6. 71 225 Electra all original 455/4 81 z28

10-07-2002, 12:07 AM	#14
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	REPO1, your right, I should have said generally. Sounds like there was an oiling problem on that engine you speak of. But in GENERAL, the roller cams do help with longevity and enable a more agressive camshaft lobe shape. But this has nothing to do with rockers though.

10-07-2002, 01:05 AM	#15
dmnall Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Goleta, CA Posts: 505	Well I have a question on this subject though, I am looking at doing a Cam swap but I was thinking of going Roller but from what I have heard that I need Screw in Rocker Studs, is this True ?? I know that my block can actually run the OEM Roller Lifter Set up that GM offered on 87 - newer blocks, Since I am running Corvette Fuelie (462 Casting) w/ 2.02 Valves, would I be able to run Roller Rocker Arms that are made to work on 3/8 " studs ?? Thank You, Charlie __________________ 1968 C10 Truck LWB Fleetside 1968 C10 Truck SWB Stepside 1994 K2500 Ext Cab Fleetside 2008 Honda Civic Si lease

10-07-2002, 08:29 AM	#16
Zkast Account Suspended Join Date: May 2002 Location: Olathe, Kansas Posts: 929	If your springs are light enough you could... but I still wouldn't suggest it even then. Reason being, the roller camshafts have a much more aggresive ramp speed meaning they will open the valve much faster than a traditional flat tappet design. It's very possible that you will pull the stud if you do this. I know GM doesnt use screw-in studs on the L98 but they also aren't using a .550 lift spring in most cases. If it were me? I'd have them pinned or machined for screw-in's.



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10-07-2002, 09:54 PM	#17
nate68 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: ca Posts: 1,110	as long as their not gm stock stamped rockers, those suck and they're usually not true 1.5 ratio. on my old motor i went from stock rockers to roller rockers and it had a little power and idle had alittle more lope to it but it was mostly because they were true 1.5's compared to 1.4x that gm's are. __________________ 68 short step, 406/700r4, 9" w/discs.

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