Starter Problems Continue.....Help!

[Huskerboy2]

When I start my one ton, the starter continues to crank even if I turn the key off. This used to just happen once in awhile, but now it is pretty much a constant thing. Initially, I changed out the ignition switch, hoping that was the problem and not the starter. I replaced the ignition switch with an NOS GM switch and when I went to fire it up, same problem. I had to disconnect the battery to get the starter to stop.

At that point, I figured the problem must be in the starter. I pulled the starter today and took it into NAPA. The guy at NAPA put it on the test bench and he says the starter works fine.

He was at a total loss, once the starter and ignition switch were ruled out. For some reason, the truck seems to continue to send power to the starter.

Any ideas out there? I'm stumped.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

I,ve had them do that before. The only way I could solve it is to replace the starter. I,m not shure what happens but something must short in the starter.

[60ratrod]

i had a similar problem on my 60. look for any wires that might be melted and are grounding out. when i had this problem on my 60 it was the heat shield that was grounding from the starter to the solenoid. but definitely check for melted wires that are grounding out. your starter solenoid wire should be a purple wire.

[Huskerboy2]

I'm an idiot when it comes to electrical, but I did replace my negative battery cable. I need to replace the positive cable as well. The positive cable has some bare wire spots. Could a bad positive battery cable cause an issue like this?

[Huskerboy2]

I was searching this topic and I saw some people reference a ground strap for the starter. Is there supposed to be a ground strap on this starter?

[Shyguy]

A ground strap is not normally on a starter.

Many people that have old tractors put a ground strap on one of the starter bolts to make sure there is a good ground.

Yesterday I put a ground cable on one of the starter bolts on my ole dump truck when I was having problems with it not turning over. It worked out great.

Danny-Southeast Missouri

[68gmsee]

Huskerboy2, Power to the starter is through the solenoid contact. The ignition sw closes the circuit to provide 12 vdc to the solenoid.

Then:
1. The solenoid picks and pushes the starter gear into contact with the flywheel and also causes a contact inside the solenoid to close and provide voltage from the battery to the starter motor.

2. As long as the key is in the start/ign position, you are providing power to the "solenoid" not the starter.

3. In the "on" position the circuit to the solenoid is opened and it should drop voltage to the solenoid which in turn disengages the starter gear (spring loaded).

You can get a starter switch at the local Napa dealer and simulate the ignition positon on your switch....

You could still have a bad solenoid and/or starter regardless of the bench testing. I had one starter that tested good on the bench and still turned out to be bad...

[LockDoc]

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I would say that there has to be a wire hooked up wrong somewhere that is keeping the starter solenoid energized and not letting it kick out. Looking at the end of the solenoid what color wires are hooked up where on the solenoid. It should look like the pic below.

LockDoc

[Huskerboy2]

Lockdoc, it looks like my wiring is correct. There is a larger gauge black wire going the middle of the solenoid, which is red on your diagram. Yellow to the left of that and a black, maybe purple, wire going to the terminal to the right.

I've got an NOS solenoid that came with the truck in a box of parts. Maybe I'll put that on the starter and see if that works. I was thinking solenoid, but when the starter tested ok at NAPA, I assumed that ruled out the starter entirely. Sounds like maybe it doesn't necessarily.

[Husker]

Would shimming it down a little help, maybe the gear is to tight when it engages the flywheel.
Ron

[mrein3]

Look at the back of the ignition switch. I bet it is melted back there. Easy fix. Buy a new plug from a supplier, fix melted wires, and button it back up.

[VetteVet]

Here is an excellent diagram of the starter in operation. It shows how the solenoid completes the circuit for the starter fields.When the bendix gear engages the flywheel a copper contact on the rear of the solenoid plunger
jumps across the terminals between the solenoid and the starter.
This copper washer gets arcing on it over time and it may stick to the terminals and continue to provide voltage to the starter. It may happen everytime or it may be intermittent. In the old days we used to pull the solenoid apart and flip this washer over and use it for a few thousand more miles. I haven't done this for several years because I haven't had any problems.
Another cause for the same problem is binding of the starter gear with the flywheel. If the solenoid spring is weak and the gears bind because of too close tolerance then the gear holds the solenoid engaged and the copper contact maintains voltage between the terminals. If you study the diagram you can follow what I'm saying. Of course when you pull the starter you will eliminate this possibility and the starter will work fine.

[69TowRig]

Dollars to donuts your starter solenoid is shot. My buddy just got through this with his Jeep, even though he knew his starter solenoid was bad he took it to AutoZone for testing anyway. They checked it and said it was fine, yet he repeatedly beat it with a hammer to get it to start for about 5 months!

[pmpski_1]

My starter "passed" on the test bench, but it still needed to be replaced. The person who tested it told me that it sounded really bad even though the test showed that it was working.

[huero]

Are you using the newer style ac delco starter? Kinda looks like a mini starter? I believe they call them permanent magnetic starters.
If, so you need a relay.

[webfoot]

I've never heard of pmgr starters needing a relay. Just use a large battery cable. I have a pmgr starter and don't use one.

D&B electrical makes a nice one, lots of guys swear by them but I have been having trouble with mine, and it recently broke a starter bolt. I can probably take the blame though since it wasn't shimmed properly.

[huero]

Permanent magnetic starters energize themselves when they are spinning. I had the same problem happening to a 63 Chevy I have. Installed the relay to cut the power off to itself and problem solved.
If, you would like to talk to an expert contact Mark at http://www.madelectrical.com/index.shtml
He is a real pro and has the relay and instructions to help solve your problem.

[truckdude239]

its a bad start had one do it replaced it and all is fine as for testing i use to work for advance auto parts i test a few starters and turn out they was bad

[68C15]

in my professional opinion I think VetteVet hit the nail on the head.

[Huskerboy2]

I really appreciate the info guys. This board is great. I am going to replace the solenoid, since I have one here. I'll let you know how I come out.

[webfoot]

Good website you posted up there huero. A wealth of information available there especially for those wanting to convert to an internally regulated alternator.

[huero]

Originally Posted by webfoot

Good website you posted up there huero. A wealth of information available there especially for those wanting to convert to an internally regulated alternator.

You are right about that. That is a great website. I have personally talked to Mark and the guy is a genious when it comes to automotive electrical systems. He is a really nice guy to talk to. He takes time to answer any question you have. I highly reccomend him and his products.

[Rreemo]

I've seen this problem several times on older GM cars....trust me, it's the starter. The first time I had an old Camaro do this I went through everything, all sort so wiring, ignition switch, etc....b/c the parts store had tested my starter and said it was good....an old racer friend of mine finally convinced me to replace the starter, and it fixed it.

When they are tesing them on their bench, they are really just confirming gear engagement, and that the starter motor isn't drawing too much current. They can't detect something like this with a bench test, as the testing bench cuts all power when they release the little button...unlike your truck, where the starter always has juice coming from the battery.

Trust me on this....you just need a new starter.

[Huskerboy2]

So, when people say the starter is bad. Are we really talking about the solenoid most of the time?

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by Huskerboy2

So, when people say the starter is bad. Are we really talking about the solenoid most of the time?

Well, depending on your problem it could be either the starter or solenoid. Since the solenoid is the cheaper thing to replace you could go with that first. However, since you're going through all of the trouble of taking it off and reinstalling it and still could have a problem, I'd go with the whole unit.

Autozone has the starter for about $30 complete with solenoid...