Complete brake job needed, opinions?

[Silvius]

Hello again

The 72 needs brakes in a bad way. Some of the components are probably original. Anyway, here is what the shop says it needs, and from what I looked at, I agree:

Front:

New pads and Rotors
New grease seals
Calipers need to be overhauled
Wheel bearings need to be repacked
Acuator adjusted
New brake fluid (flush and refill)

Rear: New pads
Resurface drums (or whatever it is they do)

Also it needs new (or remanufactured) master cylinder and hoses

All of this is going to add up pretty quickly, but I want it done correctly. The PO had done a lot of work, but left brakes off the list.

I don't have time to do it myself, unfortunately. I know that would save a lot.

Anyone care to tell me what they think it should cost? I'd like to get an idea before I hand over some $$$.

[lbpd719]

Depends,

What is your safety worth to you? You might try shopping around to see if you can get a better deal. Costs vary too much from area to area. I know I can get the rears totally redone on my 3/4 ton for about 150.

Sweet truck, if it needs brakes and you can't do 'em yourself, get them done as soon as you can. Would hate to see another totaled truck thread..

[Longhorn Man]

I would never have the drums turned on a 1/2 ton truck of this era. They are pretty cheap at the parts store and these drums have been known to shatter. (not real common.... but not unheard of)
It may be cheaper to replace the Calipers instead of the labor to have them overhauled.
On that subject... why do you say they need overhauled? Are they sticking or something?
What actuator are you talking about adjusting up front?
When you do the back, it would be a good idea to get hardware and adjuster kits.

[LONGHAIR]

Since I have no idea what the labor rates are in your area, over-all cost would be hard to say.
But as usual with me, that doesn't mean that there is nothing to say.

First, it's a big job, so it is going to cost. The best thing to do is get the most for your money.
Don't "service/overhaul" anything. Replace things like calipers, wheel cylinders, etc. Get a complete hardware kit for the rear. You get new adjusters and this replaces worn springs.
On a half ton truck, it is probably more cost effective to replace the drums. On a full floating 3/4 ton, turning may be better, if possible.

Parts like these are relatively cheap, labor on the other hand rarely is...
It is far faster to replace, which translates to less labor. The total cost may or may not change, but it is all new parts. You don't have bleeder-screw rust issues, etc... Same with adjuster screws. Break an old brake spring a few months after a major overhaul....you would be upset.
Wheel bearings might be an exception. The labor is pretty much the same either way, so if they are good, they are good. Replace them if they are worn.
Since you are doing everything from the master cylinder down, I would replace the rubber hoses too. They deteriorate from the inside to, so outer inspection is not all of the answer.
If you are doing a "super economy" job (and doing it yourself) you might "service" some of these things, because it is your time. Since you are paying, get the most for your money.

[Silvius]

Thanks for the input. Most everything will be either new or rebuilt. The few things that are rebuilt won't be an overhaul of my current parts, rather there are parts (calipers for example) that you can get new or remanufactured. I checked with two auto parts places, and asked them if they recommended against a refmanufactered master cylinder. Both places sold both versions and both said they have had the same return rate on new and remanufactured.

Since I am going to go through almost the whole set up, I will go with mostly new stuff but I may do a remanufactured part here and there. I don't know about the actuator; I'll have to ask about that. In answer to the question, one caliper is sticking.

Does $900 to 1150 sound reasonable for what I quoted above? That includes new rubber hoses. I likely will just have the rear drums replaced instead of the re-do, that will be part of the price. It seemed a little pricey to me, but all that stuff adds up and that will be money well spent for safety reasons. Mainly I am trying to find out if that price range is reasonable. I don't mind spending it; I just don't want to get taken on the price. I have checked with two shops so far, both of them have been around for quite a while, so that helps somewhat.

Thanks again for all the comments....

~S

[ChevLoRay]

If labor in OK is like that in AR, you're going to have to plan on $150 per axle, or $300, plus drums, rotors and calipers. If your drum brakes need hardware (springs, etc.) that may (or may not) be extra...depending on the shop. When I did them, they were part of the job. Wheel cylinders are usually replaced nowadays. The labor and uncertainty of the rebuild is why. You don't want to rebuild a wheel cylinder if the bore is pitted. Cheaper and more reliable to replace, and quicker, too. Calipers don't usually get replaced, but it has had to happen at times. I rebuilt the calipers on my '60 TR-3, the first brake job I ever did. They were leaking and were easy to fix. I had to replace the calipers on an '83 F-100, because the pistons were sticking in the bore....they were phenolic and prone to failure as they heated up, I found. All I have had to do, or have done on my '96 GMC, was a simple (as I call it) brake job....turn the rotors, replace the pads, repack the bearings, replace the grease seals and pay attention to the sliding components being sure the pins are greased and contact points are free to move as needed. You want the calipers to grip the rotor properly and not have all the wear on one set of pads, instead of both.

As for the rear, turning the drums is best determined by the bore of the drum and whether it can be turned, or not. If the wear has taken the I.D. of the drum to the point that it cannot be turned and be within limits (that info is cast into the rear of the drum on the lip), you will have to replace them. I say "them" because you want both sides to be the same for the sake of stopping controllably. A drum that is too thin is suspect, but one drum that is thinner than the other, is also slightly larger in inside diameter, and has a hair more stopping ability (theoretically) and could cause that side to lock up before the other....had it happen with the front of a '62 Chevy II. Used to be you had to arc the shoes to fit the inside of the drum....they aren't always perfectly concentric. You want to be sure the rear axle oil seals aren't leaking either. If one of them leaks into the drum, that brake will grab and the wheel will lock. Don't ask me why grease makes the brake lock, it just does.

But I'm pretty sure these prices are about right for OK.

[Silvius]

Also, a couple of more pictures I have from last year of the truck for kicks:

[fine69]

Why not find someone from this board in your area. And find out if they can come help you do it. Save some money, meet some board members. That is cool.

[WorkinLonghorn]

I don't know prices out there,but around here that would be a steal.
If you want to feel better about it,go into a Midas for their estimate.

[Silvius]

ChevLoRay: Okie rates are roughly the same as Arkansas. Some good input and advice that I will take, thank you.

Fine69: That is an idea that I may try in the future. No time for me to even help turn a wrench right now. However, paying a good mechanic to do it in my garage (or his) could save me some $$$ on future work.

WorkinLonghorn: Yes, I had the shocker Midas estimate on my '89 many years ago. Never again! They take overpricing to the extreme.

[wibilly]

i think i would take a day off to save $500 in labor costs but thats just me

[Longhorn Man]

When you look at it that way.
Unless you make $500 a day at work... I'd call in sick and do it myself.
Assuming you do have the tools and know how to do it. Otherwise it's all moot.

[89 crew]

One thing you want to know on those prices are what grade of rotor and drum they are going to install. Most shops around use the cheapest parts they can get. The problem with those parts are they are at minimum spec the day they were made. You can't turn a brand new price maker rotor or drum. So the parts they put on may not have as much iron in them new as you have in the old.

[Longhorn Man]

a lot of the upgrade rotors and drums are not much better. Heck, stock rotors (esp on fords) are REAL bad these days. Almost like they are crap metal plated with better rotor material. (mostly rotors, not so much an issue on drums)

[El Jay]

A lot of rotors are "1 time use, only." There isn't enough material there to turn, even w/ factory rotors.

As an aside, I broke a ball joint on my '69, right before going on vacation (talk about lucky) a couple years ago. I didn't have time to do the work myself. So Ihad the truck towed to a local front end/brake shop for repairs.
I told them, while they were at it, check the brakes & do what was needed.
I ended up w/ a 4 wheel brake job, which didn't surprise me because I was having "issues" w/ stopping in a straight line, etc.
2 ball joints, idler arm, 4 wheel brake job & some other misc. parts like spring kits, etc, was about $1200.

I said all that, just to say this.
About a year later, I was losing brake fluid.
So I pulled the wheels/drums to look for the leak.
It ended up I had a stuck self adjuster.
"No big deal", sez I, until I went to knock the "knock outs" outta the drums. They weren't there.
Adjusting the brakes just became a minor pain in the butt because they used cheaper, imported parts.
It isn't really a big deal. It is just a pain.

That's just my .02 this morning.

[72freak]

Originally Posted by Silvius

Thanks for the input.

Does $900 to 1150 sound reasonable for what I quoted above? That includes new rubber hoses. I likely will just have the rear drums replaced instead of the re-do, that will be part of the price. It seemed a little pricey to me, but all that stuff adds up and that will be money well spent for safety reasons.

~S

That sounds about right for a COMPLETE brake sytem overhaul......keep in mind you could do it in a weekend for probably $400 to $500

[Longhorn Man]

"No big deal", sez I, until I went to knock the "knock outs" outta the drums. They weren't there.
Adjusting the brakes just became a minor pain in the butt because they used cheaper, imported parts.

As far as I know, those are the ONLY ones avalible. They are missing the hole for the adjusters, and also the lip for the spring on the outter edge.

[ChevLoRay]

Seems like I remember some brake drums that had knock-outs on them to allow for adjustments from the wheel side, instead of going through the backing plate. That may explain the reason for the lack of access on the backing plates.

[Longhorn Man]

stock ones had holes, the cheap replacement ones did not.

[89 crew]

You might check Wagner brand rotors they might still have the holes or at least a knosk out to make the hole.

[72freak]

Originally Posted by 89 crew

You might check Wagner brand rotors they might still have the holes or at least a knosk out to make the hole.

I have swapped to WAGNER for everything!!!!

[BLACK AND BLUE 67-72]

Wagner used to have the knock outs, but the last set of drums I got for the 72 did not have them, Wagner has two lines the BD series supposedly made in the U.S., and the Guardian series made in China. I looked at both for the knock outs and neither had them. Also you would be money ahead if you buy all of the parts yourself and have them put the parts on the truck, if you let them buy the parts the shop will charge you list price, which is about 30%-45% markup over the orginal price.

[ChevLoRay]

Okay, here's an argument that some may not like or understand but suppose the restaurant you like to dine at charges more money than you like to pay.
So, you go to the grocery/delicatessen/etc., and buy what you want to eat, then take it to the restaurant and let them cook it and serve you. Wanna know what it's gonna cost you, IF they will do it? Same price as if you ate their groceries that they prepared for you.

If you're gonna take the parts to the shop to be installed on your vehicle, YOU and the shop owner/mechanic had better be on very good grounds. Then, if he/she does the work, don't expect any warranteed parts to be also replaced by them for no more money.

When I was in possession of my second car, a '56 Merc, the flex plate developed a "rattle". My mechanic uncle told me what I needed, and I then bought a new flexplate from a dealer, for $12. I went to a garage he recommended, taking the new flexplate. The labor to put it in? The same $43 that I would have paid if I had not taken any parts. The shops are in business to make money and they make some of it off of the mark-up in parts. We don't always have to like it, but they have families to feed, too. Oh, this was in '66. I was making $1.15/hour bagging groceries for Kroger. It took most of my take-home pay for 2 weeks of work, figuring I was working on average 25 hours a week.

[El Jay]

Originally Posted by ChevLoRay

Okay, here's an argument that some may not like or understand but suppose the restaurant you like to dine at charges more money than you like to pay.
So, you go to the grocery/delicatessen/etc., and buy what you want to eat, then take it to the restaurant and let them cook it and serve you. Wanna know what it's gonna cost you, IF they will do it? Same price as if you ate their groceries that they prepared for you.

If you're gonna take the parts to the shop to be installed on your vehicle, YOU and the shop owner/mechanic had better be on very good grounds. Then, if he/she does the work, don't expect any warranteed parts to be also replaced by them for no more money.

When I was in possession of my second car, a '56 Merc, the flex plate developed a "rattle". My mechanic uncle told me what I needed, and I then bought a new flexplate from a dealer, for $12. I went to a garage he recommended, taking the new flexplate. The labor to put it in? The same $43 that I would have paid if I had not taken any parts. The shops are in business to make money and they make some of it off of the mark-up in parts. We don't always have to like it, but they have families to feed, too. Oh, this was in '66. I was making $1.15/hour bagging groceries for Kroger. It took most of my take-home pay for 2 weeks of work, figuring I was working on average 25 hours a week.

Great analogy.

[cdowns]

Originally Posted by 89 crew

You might check Wagner brand rotors they might still have the holes or at least a knosk out to make the hole.

i'll give anybody a hundred dollars for posting a picture of a 71-72brake rotor that has a knockout for adjusting brake shoes