1.02 lateral g's!

[c10hevy]

What would it take for a swb 2wd to achieve such stats? Or somewhat close? What is the best suspension for performance oriented individuals out there? How well do bags perform when you dont care if you can slam your frame and tuck 22's? I want a truck I can take to the track and win against fox bodies or the like.

[72LoBurb]

That's a steep request from a pick-up, unless you are doing a full custom frame.
The weight bias of a pick-up is just so far from the ideal 50/50. Relocating the battery to the rear of the truck and a whole bunch of other mods to get the weight bias closer to 50/50 would help a bunch, then there is the whole issue of COG(centre of gravity). Drop that thing as close to the ground as you can, but still having useable suspension travel with as little deflection as possible(ie poly urethane bushings, full blown tubular control arms).
Anything is possible, as long as your wallet/bank has the fundage to allow the amount of modification needed to achieve these lofty goals.

[c10hevy]

my fuel tank is now under my bed, a little better weight distribution. is weight distribution the biggest obstacle in these truck? I read somewhere that the rear trailing arms are the same that nascar used in their cars in the early 70's...so i was thinking that this truck should be able to handle with the best fullsize 4000lb vehicles out there. And with the multitude of aftermarket suspension components I would think you could get a truck that is a lot of fun around a track other than a 1/4 mile. The 1.02 lateral i know is high aspirations, but what do you think is possible with a little bit of money and know how?

[SCOTI]

my fuel tank is now under my bed, a little better weight distribution. is weight distribution the biggest obstacle in these truck?

Stock gas tank location isn't really a prob on these trucks but shifting the weight bias definitely wouldn't hurt overall.

I read somewhere that the rear trailing arms are the same that nascar used in their cars in the early 70's...so i was thinking that this truck should be able to handle with the best fullsize 4000lb vehicles out there.

GM truck trailing-arm suspensions are still used by NASCAR today. Why? Because that's the rules. The suspensions are simple & easy to regulate which makes it easier on the racing sanction. Do they work? Yes, and quite well. They work good enough & are stable enough that NASCAR will let people w/no racing experience get behind the wheel & run around a track @ speeds around 150mph w/just a few hours of instruction. Is there a better suspension for handling? Yep, but it will cost you more.

And with the multitude of aftermarket suspension components I would think you could get a truck that is a lot of fun around a track other than a 1/4 mile.

Is the truck suspension adaptable for street/mild-track handling purposes? Yep w/some tweaks (spring rates, center-of-gravity changes, roll center adjustments) the truck arms can handle w/good consistency which is a great thing for novice track guy/gal.

The 1.02 lateral i know is high aspirations, but what do you think is possible with a little bit of money and know how?

1.0+ sustained lateral g's from a stock framed truck? I can't say w/certainty but I'd be willing to guess it would be an incredible feat if @ all possible. The right frame, suspension-tune, driver, & some really sticky tires..... maybe it can happen. Could it happen on a street/track, dual-purpose vehicle? Unlikely.

Could a 64-72 GM truck be tweaked to handle like late model cars? Sure . . .... & then you could haul a bunch of stuff around in the back when your done playing slot-cars. Sounds like a fun project!

[c10hevy]

So, in your opinion what would you recommend for an incredibly well handling 68 daily driver? I know that 1.0+ lateral is pretty impossible, but im looking for the ideal handling characteristics needed for these large truck to be able to hug the roads as well or better than a sports car designed to. I guess im curious how good can these trucks handle? I mean how good is the stuff out there?

[stllookn]

Google Art Morrison Engineering. I think they have a frame/chassis that will do it...G-Force.

[Andy4639]

I'm no engineer by no means but for the rear end in these trucks you can move the shocks out further on the axle. Have the front of the trailing arms moved further out from the center of the truck.
A four link setup would be the best though I would think with a corvette rear end installed.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by c10hevy

So, in your opinion what would you recommend for an incredibly well handling 68 daily driver?

Is your goal to get close to 1g in a 68 truck that can still be used as a truck? If so, I see air in your future. Whether it's bags swapped in place of coils completely, or just helper bags within the coils. I guess to help most effectively, we need to know your budget. What is your realistic goal to spend on this project?

As was suggested, AME offers some incredible frame/suspension set-ups. My friends can build stuff from scratch but have used AME's stuff on several vehicles. The downside is the cost involved since it's usually out of budget for daily driver type builds.

The stock stuff can work well though. Swap in a Porterbuilt Streetrods 'Dropmember' & you get lower center of gravity w/updated R&P steering w/o having to use dropped spindles which are notorious for compromising 'bumpsteer' in their effort to get the vehicle lower. If there's a downside to the Dropmember, it's that it's only available for air suspension.

If sticking w/the OE parts, some urethane bushings, a large sway-bar, & decent brakes will help too. Help us out w/your budget & everyone can offer suggestions that are better aligned w/your goals & finances.

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

w/o having to use dropped spindles which are notorious for compromising 'bumpsteer' in their effort to get the vehicle lower. If there's a downside to the Dropmember, it's that it's only available for air suspension.

Drop spindles do not cause bumpsteer. If anything they help avoid it by leaving the arm/tie-rod goemetry stock.

There's no reason you couldn't run coilovers with the shockwave dropmember.

[PanelDeland]

Custom tube frame,engine setback, and suspension froma Z06 might start you in the right direction.Use some fiberglas parts to lighten it some more and move as much weight to the rear as possible.

[c10hevy]

First off thanks for all the input. And no , i dont have the budget for custom tube chassis and corvette parts, let alone the know it all to put it all together. my budget realistically right now is probably around $3000, give or take, for suspension alone, front and rear.
Call me old school, but i was thinking that coilovers instead of bags, bags seem to be synonymous laying frame, not pullin g's.

A four link setup would be the best though I would think with a corvette rear end installed.

How could I use a four link with an independent rear axle?


NEW IDEA: im gonna look up prices for the corvette rear transaxle. Then i could move the tranny to just in front of the rear axle, shifting weight back, and getting a six speed. Has this been done before?

[c10hevy]

So i looked at Mr. Frizzle's 61 c5 and have decided that although ambitious, not realistic for me. btw Frizzle, does that beautiful Frankenstein drive? how does it handle?

[Andy4639]

Here are some good reads

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/h...uck/index.html

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/...ion/index.html

4 days left at $1000.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/67-co...em220209698979

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Drop spindles do not cause bumpsteer. If anything they help avoid it by leaving the arm/tie-rod goemetry stock.

There's no reason you couldn't run coilovers with the shockwave dropmember.

True.... That's why I said 'compromises' bumpsteer. Meaning the main objective of drop-spindles is to get the truck lower, not eliminate bumpsteer. If there's bumpsteer there (a/g body GM vehicles suffer this is from the factory), it prob won't get better & bumpsteer will have much to do w/that lofty 1g goal.

The coil-over idea is a great idea, I just didn't include that scenario until there was a budget thrown on the table.

As for bags being "synonymous" w/laying frame, check out AirRide Tech's road course activity @ many of the GoodGuys events. They're pushing to change that outdated logic that air is only for draggin frame by developing kits that offer lower ride heights, are adjustable, & ride better that typical dropped spring applications when compared model for model of vehicle. Some of the fastest cars around the road courses they help set-up are 60's muscle cars on airbags (as fast or faster than late model f-bodies or vettes).

It's the overall packages they offer that work well & make the vehicle handle better.

my budget realistically right now is probably around $3000, give or take, for suspension alone, front and rear. NEW IDEA: im gonna look up prices for the corvette rear transaxle. Then i could move the tranny to just in front of the rear axle, shifting weight back, and getting a six speed. Has this been done before?

A C5/6 transaxle IRS for under $3K..... not likely but entirely possible. Frizzle Fry has done just that on his project 61 short-step. As you've seen, there's alot involved.

Is your goal to get close to 1g in a 68 truck that can still be used as a truck?

Never got an answer to this one . . .....

[Ackattack]

In my time racing, I think the most overlooked part by newbies is tires. Its easy to throw money at parts, but some people are reluctant to buy good tires. Also, imo, for racing any street tire is inferior to a race tire. There are just too many comprimises for a street tire.

That being said, 1.02g's for a truck is a VERY high bar to get to. I think a more reasonable goal would be around .90 - .92g's. I believe this is about where the Ford Lightnings are from the factory and should be acheivable in trucks like ours. My goal for my truck is to be able to out do a Ford Lightning in all catagories (accelleration, handling, braking).

[67ChevyRedneck]

Z06 vette, Lamborghini, and viper are in the 1.0 to 1.1g range....

[71tahoe]

Somebody (Road and Track, Hotrod, Motor Trend...) got 1+ g from a 3000 lb G-body back in the late 80's or early 90s. I don't see why a 4000 lb truck couldn't approach 1g. It would definitely need some weight redistribution to the back and a lower CG. Aluminum goodies under the hood will shed a few pounds up front too.

[TierAngst]

I've seen people hit a full g with a 4000+ lb b-body. I know they have much better weight distro than a truck but I think with the right combo you could hit a .9+ no problem. As mentioned though tires are key.

[72Levi]

My CTS-V can do a 1.0g it even has the gauge to prove it. Very tough to do it in our trucks.