Muncie Questions/plans Experts please chime in

[ChevyDude]

Kind of have decided to put a Muncie M-22 behind my BBC 496 which has been estimated by Smith Racing to be near 700 hp. Solid roller Cam is .652 lift. Rear end gears are a 3.73 Eaton posi. Do I get the close ratio M-22 or the wide ratio??? A friend has a complete original GM 68' M-22 (all the stamped numbers match the M-22)that would need a rebuild...he said I could have it for $300 bucks....good deal??? Do I buy it from him and have it rebuilt with those nice Italian gears how much would that cost??? Or would it be better to just buy a New AutoGear SuperCase all ready to go??? Found one of those AG SuperCase complete units from T&B Trans for like $1800.00.

Input...Opinions...all the like please chime in!

[Mister laugh]

I can't really answer any of your questions but. I was under the impression that all m22's were close ratio, i may be completely wrong but just some food for thought.

[ChevyDude]

The new Italian gear sets can be had either:

M22 Close Ratio 2.20-1.64-1.28-1.00

M22 Wide Ratio 2.52-1.88-1.46-1.00


http://www.tbtrans.com/muncie_4_speed.htm#new_unit

[JimKshortstep4x4]

The M-21 and M-22 only come in a close ratio version. The wide ratio Muncie is a M-20.

$300 is a steal for a M-22 and it makes me wonder if it really is a M-22. I would strongly suggest pulling the cover to check the gears. The transmission cases are interchangeble so don't go by the exterior numbers. Most M-22's have a fine spline input and a large spline output but this is no guarantee that it is or is not a M-22 as there are other versions.

The M-22's have straighter and larger gears than the M-20's, M-21's. If you are inexperienced with Muncies, try to get someone you trust with Muncie experience to look at it with you.

Jim

[ChevyDude]

Jim the guy that is selling it is my friend. It has a no grove 10 spline in the front and a 27 spline out the back. Should I pull the side cover and look at the gears...maybe take a pic???

[Jim_PA]

I would get the supercase, along with a lakewood blow-proof bellhousing and scatter shield. Over time, the original cases stretch, making bad things happen when you put lots of tire to the ground.

I would go with the wide ratio. You're going to make gobs of power all over the rpm range, so it probably won't matter much. Close ratios are designed to keep "peaky" engines from falling out of their desired RPM range.

With all that being said, I would just go with a TK0-600 5 speed.

[ChevyDude]

I already have the Lakewood Scatter shield...I would like to do the TKO-600 but it seems like a ton of cash.

[Fred T]

Here's the page for identification.
http://www.yearone.com/updatedsingle...nfo/muncie.htm

Last good M-22 that I saw at the swap meet had a $2500 price tag.

[70rs/ss]

Well, the tko can be had for about $1500-1800 just for the trans, so I'd do a TKO 500, but probably need the 600 to hold up to the torqu of that BBC. A Municie isn't very strong to begin with and a rock crusher is no fun on the street (I'd buy it for $300 because it is worth way more than that, but not for your truck) The supercase is a good idea or a new super T-10, but trans for trans, do the TKO. According to Summit's site the TKO 600 is only $4-500 more than the T-10 but near the same price as that super case 4-speed, I am doing the TKO 600 for my 496 when I get to that stage!! Check out the Summit info:


CMG-TCET5009 Tremec TKO 600 Manual Transmissions
Transmission, Manual, Tremec TKO 600, 5-Speed, 1 1/ 8 in. 26-Spline, GM, V8, Each
4/23/08 $1,975.00


RMG-1304000070 Richmond Gear Super T-10 4-Speed Transmissions
Transmission, Manual, Super T-10 4-Speed, GM, V8, Each
Today $1,479.00

[ChevyDude]

Well you guys got me thinking...TKO-600 is $1975.00 at a bunch of shops...maybe this really is the best way to go and then I gain an overdrive gear. OK...milling this around.

[70rs/ss]

More important, the TKO is rated at well over your anticipated power range, a muncie (in stock form and maybe even hopped up will fail, sooner or later) the T-10 will probably fail and I have no experience with the super case but for $200 you get strength and an extra gear. I paid $1500 for a 700r4 to hold up to a BBC, I should have done the TKO then, so I will for sure on the next BBC that goes into my 72 2wd Blazer. Good Luck, i don't think you can go wrong! Here is more info on the TKO 500/600 from Jeg's:

Tremec TKO-500/600 5-Speed Transmissions

Tremec TKO transmissions are the ultimate upgrade when making 500+ horsepower. These transmissions are more robust, flexible and more versatile than their earlier counterparts. The TKO is ideal for high-performance racing applications. TKO-500 transmissions can handle up to 500-ft./lbs. of torque and the TKO-600 up to 600-ft/lbs. TKO transmissions are not direct replacements. They require modifications for installation.

Features and Benefits:

Higher center distance (83 mm) from main shaft to counter shaft allows for larger gear sizes and higher torque carrying capacity
Close gear ratio (2.87 & 3.27) models available for high-performance racing applications
Robust transmission design with internal 3-rail shift system with cast iron shift forks
Tapered roller bearings on input, output and counter shafts improve performance (reduced noise factor).
All gears and shafts made from special grade steel (ASTM 4615) that permits increased torque carrying capacity
Single-piece countershaft that better handles increased torque carrying capacity
Equipped with a high-performance short-throw billet aluminum shifter that isolates road noise, while providing clean crisp shifts
Neutral safety switch and back-up light sensor
Flexible and versatile
Eight shifter locations available
Dual electronic and mechanical speedometer pick-ups
Three unique cross member-mounting configurations
Three different input shafts available
Three available overdrive ratios:
.64 or .68 ratios reduce engine rpm to a level that makes it fun to drive besides enhancing the fuel efficiency
.82 ratio is ideal for long straight-aways for high performance racing

[70rs/ss]

Kiesler, I have heard peaople talk smack about them, but CarCraft and Hot Rod used there kit (complete ready to install with no trips for parts!)



TREMEC TKO-500/600 & T56 for GM & Ford
In Stock
& Available!
Order Now: Online
or CALL (865) 609-8187
We won't be
undersold!

Don't be Misled! All Transmission Kits are NOT Created Equal! Click here



Features of the TKO-500 / TKO-600 / T56
Super duty all Chromoly steel construction gear set
Ultimate strength 1-piece countershaft
Improved shifter with user-adjustable spring bias centering
Dual mechanical and electronic speedometer outputs
(TKO-600) Close ratio 2.87 1st gear for less 1-2 RPM drops
(TKO-600) TALL 0.64 overdrive ("Street option") for lower cruising RPMs and longer engine life (0.82 "Road Race" option still available)


Ratios and Torque Ratings
Model 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th HP Torque
Rating Description
TKO-500 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 n/a 550 500 ft/lbs. *(Wide ratio & Street OD)
TKO-600 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 n/a 650 600 ft/lbs. *(Close ratio & Street OD)
TKO-600 (RR) 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 n/a 650 600 ft/lbs. *(Close ratio & Road Race OD)
T56-0011 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 .80 .62 475 400 ft/lbs. (6-Speed)
T56-Viper 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 .74 .50 650 600 ft/lbs. (6-Speed)

[70rs/ss]

Classic 5 speed:

http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/

Installing a five speed overdrive Tremec transmission in your classic Chevy will be one of the best improvements that you can make to your classic car. Watch your cruising RPM’s drop by as much as 36% while your driving pleasure goes up! The all new Tremec TKO-500 and TKO-600’s are high performance, true overdrive five speed transmissions. With torque ratings of 500 ft/lbs. and 600 ft/lbs. respectively, these all new Tremec transmissions are among the most versatile transmissions produced. In addition to the all-star line up of parts that we have assembled for our TKO kits, Classic Motorsports Group has built its reputation through its commitment to offering the best, most responsive and professional customer service and support you will find. We specialize exclusively in Tremec TKO conversion kits for Classic Chevy’s and we have “walked the walk” by personally installing TKO’s into Camaros, Corvettes, Chevelles and other model cars. Email inquiries are answered by the end of the day, we typically answer phone calls within three rings and you will always speak directly to one of the owners. We do our best to keep every part we offer in stock at all times and orders are usually shipped out within 48 hours.

Basic Tremec Overdrive Transmission Conversion Kit for Classic Chevys (This one is specifically for our trucks and only a few hundred more than just the trans!!) It seems as though these guys and Kiesler compete so a phone call or two could shave $1-2-300 of of this price check it out!! I plan to do the 500 in my 70 Camaro behind my 450-500hp 383, and the 600 in my 2wd Blazer.


Basic TKO-500 Street Kit: $2095
Basic TKO-600 Street Kit: $2195
Basic TKO-600 Road Race Kit: $2195


Performance Package Upgrades
Stock Clutch Kit Street Comp Strip Comp

LUK 10.5" or 11" clutch kit - 425 HP Street Performance Add $195
11" clutch kit - 550 HP Dual Performance Add $425
11" clutch kit - 700 HP Add $525





Request a quote

The Classic Motorsports Group Deluxe TKO kits include the following components:

Transmission. All new TKO-500 or TKO-600 transmission. Includes billet aluminum Tremec shifter.
Slip yoke. Spicer 1330, 31 spline slip yoke.
Speedometer cable/adapter. Custom mechanical speedometer cable with integrated adapter and gear. Electric speedometer kits are also available.
Reverse light switch connector. Convenient pigtail connector.
Transmission mount. Energy Suspension polyurethane transmission mount for long life and durability.
Pilot bearing. Needle roller pilot bearing.
Hardware Kit. Complete specialty hardware kit for a hassle free installation.
Installation Instructions/Information. Step-by-step instructions to answer your most detailed questions and help you with your installation.
Customer Support. Unlimited phone support for all technical and installation related questions.
Extended warranty. Free one year extended warranty from Classic Motorsports Group on all kit components. Some restrictions apply.
Detailed parts description

Model Part Number 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Torque Rating
TKO-500 4616 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 500 ft/lbs.
TKO-600 5009 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 600 ft/lbs.
TKO-600(RR) 4618 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 600 ft/lbs.


Call Now to Order (760) 438-2244

[70rs/ss]

Sorry for so many posts, but really this is such a good deal, like I said I dropped $1500 for a decent 700r4 and I am so excited about doing this myself, so I was looking for both of us!! I think a TKO 600 is bare minimum for a BBC, 600lb ft or torque and basically bullet proof and an overdrive on top of that!!

[ChevyDude]

Thanks for the help...that does look like a good deal and I have already spoken with them on the phone...seem like good people to buy from.

[Jim_PA]

Yeah, you've already built a 700HP big block, what's another $800 bucks or so?

[bhoeger70]

BUY THE MUNCIE!!! at that price unless the gears are shot, the core alone is about 370.00 if I am correct. I had a m-20 behind a very good running 396 (12.5-1 compression) in a chevelle and never broke it. It will hold untill you dead hook from 5000rpm.

[ChevyDude]

Muncie is in my shop for inspection. All the case numbers say it is a pre 69 M-22. As far as the gears...not sure what the M-22 gears looked like, or whether someone rebuilt it with M-21 gears? The gears are angled and look very good, nice and sharp edges. My friend says it just needs new sycro's, bearings and seals....that's it. The countershaft below measures 1" in diameter. Cover plate number 3884685 and build date stamped on the main case P9M30. 10 spline in the front, 27 spline in the tail. No broken ears or signs of any repairs to the case. Is it an M-22? A deal for 300 bucks?

[wibilly]

not a m22 but still a deal those gears are cut ata 30 degre angle m22 are 20 degres. m22s are a much noiser trany due to the straighter cut gears thus the name rock crusher

[bhoeger70]

At 300 it is a steal

[ChevyDude]

A steal at 300.00 but not what I think I really want. Been reading and reading and everything seems to point in the direction of the TKO-600. So I will have to figure out how to finance a 5-speed Tremec into the back end of my 496. I appreciate everyone's help and input on this Muncie issue.

[70rs/ss]

Clean up the muncie and put synchros in it then you have a $1,000 trans to sell and a good start on the TKO 600!! I am considering the same thing, my 70 RS/SS Camaro has the stock original Muncie in it (been completely gone through with new parts) plus all the stuff, flywheel clutch pressure plate, bell housing, etc, etc. My car is a numbers matching car but the muncies are date coded for a few years so I could always pick up another to return to original. Once I sell it, I too can afford the TKO 500. In this day and age a good 5-speed is nearly the same $$$ as a good 4-speed. Good Luck.

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

Clean up the muncie and put synchros in it then you have a $1,000 trans to sell and a good start on the TKO 600!! I am considering the same thing, my 70 RS/SS Camaro has the stock original Muncie in it (been completely gone through with new parts) plus all the stuff, flywheel clutch pressure plate, bell housing, etc, etc. My car is a numbers matching car but the muncies are date coded for a few years so I could always pick up another to return to original. Once I sell it, I too can afford the TKO 500. In this day and age a good 5-speed is nearly the same $$$ as a good 4-speed. Good Luck.

I'm in the same boat. I should be able to get 7-800 for my rebuilt super t-10 from shifter ball to drain plug. Coming up with the extra grand for the TKO should be doable after a few side-jobs.

I think I would deliver newspapers or something though before I took out a #"s matching trans, and sold it for an aftermarket trans