needing some help with a tranny problem

[b8er]

hey guys, names Tyson and iv been around the site for awhile but havent posted anything yet. iv done a little search but really didint find any awnsers for my problem, i have a 69 gmc 1/2 ton with a 250 L6. the problem is with the tranny and clutch, the man who owned the truck before me swaped out the 3 speed and put in a 5 speed. Its a borg werner 5 speed out of a 82-82ish s10/blazer sorta vechile. iv had the truck for awhile now and the clutch disk anti-vibratoin springs exploded one day so i went to replaced the clutch and ran into some problems.
i had to use the original flywheel and a new clucth pressure plate for the 69 gmc but then had to use a clutch fiber disk for the 82ish tranny because the splines have to be the same, after installing everything the clutch doesnt wanna fully disingage. with the motor running, tranny in gear, and clutch in the wheels still want to move and it doesnt like to shift gears while moving.
iv adjusted everything i can as many ways as allowable, iv double and tripple checked everthing i even went so far as to use some small washers to space the pressure plate away from the flywheel to try and get it to disingage. still with the same result as before.
if anybody could shed some light on the subject or if anybodys ran into the same problem id really appreciate it, thanks for any help guys

[truckdude239]

is the clucth disc in the right way? if it is backwards it willc ause this problem but i dont like mismatching clutchs and pressure plate i'm pretty sure that a flywheel off an 82 will fit our motors then u would be able to make sure you got the right parts. is the linkage still rods and levers or did her convert over to a hydical setup

[b8er]

yea the clutch disk is in the right way, i wondered that myself when after i installed everything and it didnt work, the clutch rods and linkage is all stock as far as i can tell, not hydrolic thats for sure. would an 82 flywheel fit properly? all the holes line up and the starter still works?

[b8er]

anybody think of anything today?

[68gmsee]

Probably too late, but you may have a defective pressure plate. I've replaced a few in the past and the newer ones from the local auto parts stores are not very high quality. I've had to send a couple back because of not completely disengaging.

Removing them is a pain in the rear but that may be your problem...

[sneakysnake]

I would not run washers under the pressure plate!
If you are using a stock fly and plate, The disk thickness isnt that much difference. Did you replace the thowout bearing? Is it on the fork properly?
You need to lengthen the linkage to make it release more, Is there any reason the disk is contacting other than the wear surface?(touching the alignment pins).Have someone push the clutch, shine a light in beside the fork and see what the pressure plate is doing, check the travel of the fork and bearing.

[b8er]

hey thanks for the reply guys few things thou,

I would not run washers under the pressure plate!
If you are using a stock fly and plate, The disk thickness isnt that much difference. Did you replace the thowout bearing? Is it on the fork properly?
You need to lengthen the linkage to make it release more, Is there any reason the disk is contacting other than the wear surface?(touching the alignment pins).Have someone push the clutch, shine a light in beside the fork and see what the pressure plate is doing, check the travel of the fork and bearing

the onyl reason i put washer under the hat was just to space it out to see if it would help with the disenaging, it didnt, aha. iv mic'ed the disk itself and its close to the old one so i dont belive thats a problem. i did replaced the throw out bearing and yes the fork is working properly. if i lengthen the adjuster on the clutch fork rod it pushes the throw out bearing right to the pressure plate fingers and is rubbing on that the whole time, so i backed off the adjustment just to when the bearing was just clear of the plate because i dont want the bearing spinning 24-7 and have to put a new one in the truck in a few weeks. im not sure if the disk is rubbing somewhere else other then the friction surfaces, thats what im beging to think is the problem cause i have been underneath looking up threw the inspection cover when somebody else has been working the clutch pedal threw its travel and everything seems to work good, bearing goes in and comes back out, no binding, all the linkage its straight and doesnt bind.

Probably too late, but you may have a defective pressure plate. I've replaced a few in the past and the newer ones from the local auto parts stores are not very high quality. I've had to send a couple back because of not completely disengaging.

Removing them is a pain in the rear but that may be your problem...

other then the plate just not disengangin enough was there any reason or visable sign it was a defective plate? were you using the same clutch tranny setup as the one in my truck?

thanks for the suggestions guys iv been over this damn thing about 20 times just trying to find somthing, it seems like it should be an easy fix but its been fightin me the whole time, thanks again and keep them coming!

[sneakysnake]

Does the 5 speed have a one piece bell housing or can it be seperated from the tranny? If so, get an alignment tool and use it to see what the disk it catching on.

[68gmsee]

[QUOTE=b8er;2690362]
.......... other then the plate just not disengangin enough was there any reason or visable sign it was a defective plate? were you using the same clutch tranny setup as the one in my truck? QUOTE]

No, there was no outward sign that the pressure plates were bad. I don't know what the problem was but after replacing them, they worked fine. One of them I had to get my money back since they didn't have another one and I went to another auto parts and got a different brand. Happened several years ago so my memory is fuzzy...

Let us know what you find.

[Green Machine]

I'm thinking your throw out bearing is to short. If the pressure plate has raised fingers you need a short bearing. If, as might be possible in your case, if the PP has flat fingers, you need a long bearing to reach the fingers.

[DavesRide]

I once changed out the non releasing clutch 4 times in a 4X4 and then we found that the pedal lever to pivot bar had twisted. Wouldn't work no matter how far we adjusted it. I am not that familiar with your set up but also look for everything to be working properly. Dave

[b8er]

thanks for the replys guys,

Does the 5 speed have a one piece bell housing or can it be seperated from the tranny? If so, get an alignment tool and use it to see what the disk it catching on.

the tranny and bell housing are seperate, the bell housing is actually the rear motor support, when i used the washers to space the pressure plate out .075 it still wouldnt release fully so i do agree its catching on somthing, what its catching on, im just not sure. I run into a problem when trying this because when i orderd the new clutch stuff i ordered a kit for the 69 gmc and JUST a clutch disk for an 82ish jimmy because thats the only part i needed, it was just so the splines matched. so i did not get an alignment tool with the correct teeth on it, i did however use a universal alignment tool when installing but it worked just fine. I dont belive that using the uneversal too was the problem as the tranny slid in and out without any binding.

I'm thinking your throw out bearing is to short. If the pressure plate has raised fingers you need a short bearing. If, as might be possible in your case, if the PP has flat fingers, you need a long bearing to reach the fingers.

i had also thought this might be a problem so i checked the presure plate and throw out bearing the first time i took it out after replacing it ahaha. the throw out bearing is the same as the one i took out, same goes for the pressure plate and also the thickness of clutch disk itself.

I once changed out the non releasing clutch 4 times in a 4X4 and then we found that the pedal lever to pivot bar had twisted. Wouldn't work no matter how far we adjusted it. I am not that familiar with your set up but also look for everything to be working properly. Dave

thanks for the suggestion dave but yet ,i have coverd this quiry aswell. After putting the tranny in for the 2nd time i decided i should start at the pedal and work down. starting from the clutch obviously hadnt been working to well. I worked my way threw the linkages, fixed a couple small things that werent affecting its performace but should be fixed anyways and didnt find anything really major, or at least anything that would contribute to my on-going problem. I also had a sombody hope in and stroke the clutch from the pedal as i watched everything multiple times and found nothing out of the ordinary. I pulled the inspection plate off and could even see the throw out bearing moving and engangin the pressure plate and fully releasing off of the pressure plate fingers.

I really hate to keep shooting down all of your guys's ideas its just iv been threw this, and have asked myself the same questions ahaha. these trucks are pretty simple to work on and this is just blowing my mind. Again thank you for all the replys so far , keep them coming then defintly dont hurt. im gonna pull the tranny back out within the next few days and pull the clutch out so see if theres any wear marks anywhere on the tranny input shaft, clutch disk, clutch fork, and flywheel. who knows what i might find with this old girl. thanks again

[Richard H.]

Is the pilot bearing for the 5 speed or binding?

[b8er]

the throw out bearing is for the truck itself, 69 gmc, came with the clutch kit i bought, i dont belive its binding because the pedal moves in and out just fine, i will be checking for any un-usual wear marks whenever i get more then 5 spare minutes

[Wrenchbender Ret]

This is a common problem with that coversion. Prop the clutch pedal to the floor & get under the truck & pull the cover. See if the clutc disc will move away from the flywheel. If not pull the trans out & the clutch disc. Pull the bearing retainer off the front of the trans. Slide the clutch disc on as far as it will go & mark it on the shaft. With a die grinder or Dremel tool grind the grooves in the shaft till the disc will slide on about 3/8 tio 1/2 in further. That will fix it.

[Richard H.]

I was not talking about the clutch release bearing but the pilot bearing in the end of your crank shaft , if it is binding or sticking it will give the same symptoms

[70rs/ss]

First off the flywheel is the same no matter what. You should order the clutch, pressure plate, etc for the trans (10" or 11"). Mis matching parts is going to cause exactly what you have going on here. The clutch isn't completely disengaging, adjust the rod out. If it isn't clamping 100% adjust the rod in. There is not much else to be wrong. The throw-out bearing needs tofully cycle to release it, have someone push the peddle while you are under it, the PP should back out and allow space between the clutch and PP if it isn't you need to lengthen the rod. If nothing else has changed (except the new parts) it is an adjustment issue. run the rod out as long as it will go and push the clutch, it should release and then some, back it off so the T-O bearing isn't riding the fingers of the PP and you are good to go, BTW picts of what you have always helps as it clears up Q's about type of trans, hydro or manual clutch etc, and also lets us see if there is something visually wrong, keeps the stabs in the dark to a minimum.

[b8er]

hey guys, thanks for the replys here, i only had a few spare minutes ot look at it in these last few days, its been just amazing how busy iv been. anyways on with the truck. first off, for the last post posted: Iv adjusted the rod to the full extend both ways and have had no luck either way.

to the user wrenchbenderret: i was underneath the truck and i found what i thing is and hope is the problem. the piece of tubeing that rides over the input shaft and that the throw out bearing rides on, slangly refered to as the candlestick, well it appers that the clutch disk is being pushed on by the candle stick and when it has pressure on it , it pushes itself into the flywheel, thus making it always wanna turn and not release.i belive this is what you are talking about. what im not sure about is where you said to take a dremel and make the splines on the tranny shaft longer, if i make them any longer i will run into the candle stick, do you sugest i remove the candle stick and cut part of the stick away, make the splines longer then reinstall anything, i belive this is what i have to do but just wanna check to see with sombody that knows what im talking about. thanks for any and all the help so far

[Wrenchbender Ret]

First. did you cut part of the "candlestick" off when you prepared the trans for the swap? You need to cut part of it off to match the length of the old trans. Same with the end of the shaft that goes into the pilot brg. Then grind the grooves in the shaft back towards the front of the trans. like described earlier. Do this with the brg. retainer off.

[b8er]

well i the swap was done before i even got the truck and drove it around for about 3 months before i had this problem, it looks like the gentlemen before me DID cut the candlestick because it was not straight, iv already re-cut the tip of the candlestick to make it straight and am now actually on my way outside to lengthen the splines on the tranny input shaft