Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

tcb-1 · 06-04-2008, 09:50 PM

well, as some of you all know I have had some issues with powdercoating lately. too bad 'cause I had some nice motorcycle piece come from this place.

okay, so I went and picked up the rims today. I wasn't charged for them, thank God! anyway, you may remember that the pc'er said that the reason my 15 x 8 steelies bubbled was my fault because the sandblaster didn't get them clean enough, but it was still my fault. so I'm out for the re-sandblasting. oh well, chalk one up to experience.

I'd like some of the guys on here that have more experience on powdercoating tell me what I can do to not have this happen again. Is this something that just can happen and you have no control over it? Thanks GANG!!

now for exhibit (A)

and exhibit (B)

72BlckButy · 06-04-2008, 11:21 PM

The main part that I don't understand, is why did they bubble? If my understanding is incorrect, let me know, but I thought that when something PC'd the powder is pulled to the first open spot on the item and then it stick. I'm kind of confused about the bubbles...

Side note...

Doug, can you post a few more pics of the other items, I will print them out and take them over to my body shop to get you a price quote.

71shortwide · 06-05-2008, 12:54 AM

that doesn't sound right at all, my pc'er said they have a certain process to clean parts. it is in no way your fault and it just sounds like he doesn't want to take the time to do thing rights. good luck!

Justin

**tkeduk8r** · 06-05-2008, 12:58 AM

I had a few steelies powdered at a place I worked last year and had the same thing happen... these guys have been doing this for 20 years ( and a multi-million dollar global business I may add) and I believed them when he told me that in tight corners (such as the tight area where the inner wheel is welded to the outer rim like yours) that the gas bubbles cant escape as the normally would from a different shaped surface... nature of the beast I guess... he (the powder plant manager since '84) siad if I wanted concourse correct I should paint them, but if I wanted durable coat em and someone would really have to look for the bubbles... I had them coat my rallies anyway since it is a dd, and they have been bullet proof, my trim rings barely scratch them!!! I dont mean to be rash about it, but this was just what was presented to me when I was inquiring about it last year... hope that helps in some way...
--Mike

Musclerodz · 06-05-2008, 01:33 AM

I had a set of car ralleys fo the same thing. The issue is gassing where the to pieces come together. I think if the wheels were pre-heated before powder, they should not gas. I had had some similar gassing issues with castings, and pre-heating solved the problem.

scrapmetalart · 06-05-2008, 02:44 AM

you sure there was not sand stuck in the crack?
I have been told to not "sand" blast before powder. The sand will explode when heated....

Not sure what media you should use, but your PC guy should know...

ChevLoRay · 06-05-2008, 06:15 AM

I don't think that the temps in the oven (400 degrees F) are anywhere near the temp needed to melt the sand. Remember that sand is a component of glass-making and it would need some SERIOUS heat to melt. I don't think it would pop out of the crevice.

My issue with my powder-coated wheels is this: a tire shop managed to chip the surface of one wheel, while getting on of the police caps off. But my powder coater dude says he can mix up some of the powder with some acetone and touch it up. I guess we'll see.

**special-K** · 06-05-2008, 07:22 AM

Powdercoaters have aways told me they want every piece broken down into pieces.They won`t do riveted pieces and such.A welded component piece like wheels has this tendency and it`s hit or miss...nature of the beast.As far as cleaning goes,it is the responsibilty of the finisher to do the final cleaning and prep.That goes without saying,paint,stain,powdercoat...whatever.Any professional that doesn`t do that is far from professional.

ChevyDude · 06-05-2008, 09:14 AM

You guys may know I do some powder coating. As far as "Out Gassing" that usally goes with aluminum and cast parts that do need to be heated to release the gasses prior to powder coating. I guess it is possible that the weld areas out gassed while baking. It is also possible that those areas were not clean enough. Did the PCer Iron Phosphate wash the wheels prior to pcing? If that had happened me I would have sanded down the whole rim with 220 paper, air blasted it clean and re-coated and baked them.

tcb-1 · 06-05-2008, 01:12 PM

chevydude,
could it be that the coating was too thick? should I have these rims heat treated to evacuate any gas that's in the welds?

as far as the prep goes, I don't think my pc'er did squat before he hit them with any powder.....

**Boog** · 06-05-2008, 08:12 PM

[as far as the prep goes, I don't think my pc'er did squat before he hit them with any powder.....]
That may be closer to the truth than anything Doug.

tcb-1 · 06-05-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boog

[as far as the prep goes, I don't think my pc'er did squat before he hit them with any powder.....]
That may be closer to the truth than anything Doug.

Boog,

I needed that!!! Yep, good call! Oh well, like I said chalk one up to experience...... but I've had stupid things like this happen a lot lately and I'm running out of chalk!

scrapmetalart · 06-05-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChevLoRay

I don't think that the temps in the oven (400 degrees F) are anywhere near the temp needed to melt the sand. Remember that sand is a component of glass-making and it would need some SERIOUS heat to melt. I don't think it would pop out of the crevice.

I don't think it is about melting the sand as much as releasing water in the sand making the pop...

**DREW67** · 06-05-2008, 09:41 PM

Doug where did you take them?

tcb-1 · 06-05-2008, 09:54 PM

Andrew,
I think it's safe now since I have my parts back in my possession.

Crosslink Powdercoating of KC. Like I said, up to now I have been extremely happy with the service I have gotten there, but I guess I'm looking again.....

72BlckButy · 06-05-2008, 10:48 PM

Doug, if all goes as planned, maybe I can drop by on Sunday and snap a few shots to get you a quote. The only problem I forsee is that the shop is about 200 miles from your house...

ChevyDude · 06-06-2008, 09:08 AM

It is possible that is was too thick, or maybe he spilled a bunch in that area. Really hard to say. Every time I powder coat it is a science project. I follow the rules of the powder carefully, keep the oven at the right temp, try to keep the powder flowing on the clean raw metal evenly aand cross my fingers all is well when the timer rings!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcb-1

chevydude,
could it be that the coating was too thick? should I have these rims heat treated to evacuate any gas that's in the welds? As far as the prep goes, I don't think my pc'er did squat before he hit them with any powder.....

tcb-1 · 06-06-2008, 12:51 PM

Nate,
Give me a call at the house this weekend. If you don't have it, shoot me a pm.

Ah He!!, I think I am just going to have them sandblasted, paint them Rallye wheel silver (60% gloss), get some bullet caps and lug nuts and roll!

Fan2zee · 06-06-2008, 06:32 PM

Keep it on a down low... I own a company with a powder coat system. This appears... I'm not accusing anyone understand, classic sample of the powder coat company not drying that part off good. If water is left in that crack .... booya... bubbles... Not your fault ... this is classic not drying a part off.. especially in that area were water can hold...

scottrod71 · 06-27-2008, 01:49 PM

Doug,
what finally happened with these wheels? I can't imagine they didn't offer to redo them...........

06-04-2008, 09:50 PM	#1
tcb-1 Nothing to see here..... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 4,625	Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 well, as some of you all know I have had some issues with powdercoating lately. too bad 'cause I had some nice motorcycle piece come from this place. okay, so I went and picked up the rims today. I wasn't charged for them, thank God! anyway, you may remember that the pc'er said that the reason my 15 x 8 steelies bubbled was my fault because the sandblaster didn't get them clean enough, but it was still my fault. so I'm out for the re-sandblasting. oh well, chalk one up to experience. I'd like some of the guys on here that have more experience on powdercoating tell me what I can do to not have this happen again. Is this something that just can happen and you have no control over it? Thanks GANG!! now for exhibit (A) and exhibit (B) __________________ Doug THANK YOU to our American Soldiers & Veterans - POW MIA "You will NEVER be forgotten". The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

06-04-2008, 11:21 PM	#2
72BlckButy Tot Roddin' Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mid-MO Posts: 24,461	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 The main part that I don't understand, is why did they bubble? If my understanding is incorrect, let me know, but I thought that when something PC'd the powder is pulled to the first open spot on the item and then it stick. I'm kind of confused about the bubbles... Side note... Doug, can you post a few more pics of the other items, I will print them out and take them over to my body shop to get you a price quote. __________________ -Nate 1969 CST SWB - Project Blank Slate (4.5/6" ECE Static Drop, 6-lug disc brake upgrade (manual), Billet Specialties Vintec 20x8.5 255/40 (F) 20x10 295/40 (R), 250 I-6) 1960 AMF Skylark - Tot Roddin' (Lowered with custom frame; soon to include custom push bar and interior) 2008 Silverado CrewCab 1LT (5.3L, 3:73, 4x4, LT1, Z-71, Towing Package)

06-05-2008, 12:54 AM	#3
71shortwide Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Fayetteville Arkansas Posts: 74	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 that doesn't sound right at all, my pc'er said they have a certain process to clean parts. it is in no way your fault and it just sounds like he doesn't want to take the time to do thing rights. good luck! Justin

06-05-2008, 12:58 AM	#4
tkeduk8r Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Alexandria, MN Posts: 1,462	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 I had a few steelies powdered at a place I worked last year and had the same thing happen... these guys have been doing this for 20 years ( and a multi-million dollar global business I may add) and I believed them when he told me that in tight corners (such as the tight area where the inner wheel is welded to the outer rim like yours) that the gas bubbles cant escape as the normally would from a different shaped surface... nature of the beast I guess... he (the powder plant manager since '84) siad if I wanted concourse correct I should paint them, but if I wanted durable coat em and someone would really have to look for the bubbles... I had them coat my rallies anyway since it is a dd, and they have been bullet proof, my trim rings barely scratch them!!! I dont mean to be rash about it, but this was just what was presented to me when I was inquiring about it last year... hope that helps in some way... --Mike __________________ 63 C20 2WD, 230/SM420/4.11 73K 68 C30 dump truck, 327,SM425,4.56 66K original 68 C10 2WD SWB Stepper, 250/3-tree/3.73 66K.... Wifes 68 Buick Skylark Custom Conv., 350/TH400/2.56 In our family since '79 69 GMC 1500 SWB 2WD, 350/TH350/3.73 posi... 70 K10 SWB 4X4 4-sp,ps, pb, tilt, buckets, console, sliding back window (Need AC parts) WIP 72 Chevy K20 4x4 350/350/205/4.56 donor 72 Vette 350/M21/3.70 posi, triple black and super fast 84 Olds Cutlass Brougham 350/2004r/4.11 was Dad's

06-05-2008, 01:33 AM	#5
Musclerodz Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 2,365	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 I had a set of car ralleys fo the same thing. The issue is gassing where the to pieces come together. I think if the wheels were pre-heated before powder, they should not gas. I had had some similar gassing issues with castings, and pre-heating solved the problem. __________________ Mike Redpath

06-05-2008, 02:44 AM	#6
scrapmetalart Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DAYTON Posts: 505	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 you sure there was not sand stuck in the crack? I have been told to not "sand" blast before powder. The sand will explode when heated.... Not sure what media you should use, but your PC guy should know... __________________ frontstreetcycle on Instagram

06-05-2008, 06:15 AM	#7
ChevLoRay Old Skool Club Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Benton, AR "The Heart of Arkansas" Posts: 10,880	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 I don't think that the temps in the oven (400 degrees F) are anywhere near the temp needed to melt the sand. Remember that sand is a component of glass-making and it would need some SERIOUS heat to melt. I don't think it would pop out of the crevice. My issue with my powder-coated wheels is this: a tire shop managed to chip the surface of one wheel, while getting on of the police caps off. But my powder coater dude says he can mix up some of the powder with some acetone and touch it up. I guess we'll see. __________________ Member Nr. 2770 '96 GMC Sportside; 4.3/SLT - Daily driven....constantly needs washed. '69 C-10 SWB; 350/TH400 - in limbo The older I get, the better I was.

06-05-2008, 07:22 AM	#8
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,852	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 Powdercoaters have aways told me they want every piece broken down into pieces.They won`t do riveted pieces and such.A welded component piece like wheels has this tendency and it`s hit or miss...nature of the beast.As far as cleaning goes,it is the responsibilty of the finisher to do the final cleaning and prep.That goes without saying,paint,stain,powdercoat...whatever.Any professional that doesn`t do that is far from professional. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

06-05-2008, 09:14 AM	#9
ChevyDude Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 3,071	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 You guys may know I do some powder coating. As far as "Out Gassing" that usally goes with aluminum and cast parts that do need to be heated to release the gasses prior to powder coating. I guess it is possible that the weld areas out gassed while baking. It is also possible that those areas were not clean enough. Did the PCer Iron Phosphate wash the wheels prior to pcing? If that had happened me I would have sanded down the whole rim with 220 paper, air blasted it clean and re-coated and baked them. __________________ Alex 1971 Lil' Red 350 SBC 700R4 Last edited by ChevyDude; 06-05-2008 at 09:15 AM.

06-05-2008, 01:12 PM	#10
tcb-1 Nothing to see here..... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 4,625	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 chevydude, could it be that the coating was too thick? should I have these rims heat treated to evacuate any gas that's in the welds? as far as the prep goes, I don't think my pc'er did squat before he hit them with any powder..... __________________ Doug THANK YOU to our American Soldiers & Veterans - POW MIA "You will NEVER be forgotten". The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

06-05-2008, 08:12 PM	#11
Boog laying low Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Searcy, Ark. USA Posts: 13,445	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 [as far as the prep goes, I don't think my pc'er did squat before he hit them with any powder.....] That may be closer to the truth than anything Doug. __________________ Boog 69 Chevy stepside, 358/T350, 4.11 posi, 4.5/4 drop, rallys, poboy driver primer is finer 91 Chevy sportside, Tahoe, Yukon & GMC Crewcab All GM..'nuff said. I stand for the flag and kneel at the cross

06-05-2008, 09:41 PM	#14
DREW67 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, Mo Posts: 1,029	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 Doug where did you take them? __________________ DREW67

06-05-2008, 09:54 PM	#15
tcb-1 Nothing to see here..... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 4,625	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 Andrew, I think it's safe now since I have my parts back in my possession. Crosslink Powdercoating of KC. Like I said, up to now I have been extremely happy with the service I have gotten there, but I guess I'm looking again..... __________________ Doug THANK YOU to our American Soldiers & Veterans - POW MIA "You will NEVER be forgotten". The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

06-05-2008, 10:48 PM	#16
72BlckButy Tot Roddin' Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mid-MO Posts: 24,461	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 Doug, if all goes as planned, maybe I can drop by on Sunday and snap a few shots to get you a quote. The only problem I forsee is that the shop is about 200 miles from your house... __________________ -Nate 1969 CST SWB - Project Blank Slate (4.5/6" ECE Static Drop, 6-lug disc brake upgrade (manual), Billet Specialties Vintec 20x8.5 255/40 (F) 20x10 295/40 (R), 250 I-6) 1960 AMF Skylark - Tot Roddin' (Lowered with custom frame; soon to include custom push bar and interior) 2008 Silverado CrewCab 1LT (5.3L, 3:73, 4x4, LT1, Z-71, Towing Package)

06-06-2008, 12:51 PM	#18
tcb-1 Nothing to see here..... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 4,625	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 Nate, Give me a call at the house this weekend. If you don't have it, shoot me a pm. Ah He!!, I think I am just going to have them sandblasted, paint them Rallye wheel silver (60% gloss), get some bullet caps and lug nuts and roll! __________________ Doug THANK YOU to our American Soldiers & Veterans - POW MIA "You will NEVER be forgotten". The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson



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06-06-2008, 06:32 PM	#19
Fan2zee Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: East of Barbers, AL Posts: 116	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 Keep it on a down low... I own a company with a powder coat system. This appears... I'm not accusing anyone understand, classic sample of the powder coat company not drying that part off good. If water is left in that crack .... booya... bubbles... Not your fault ... this is classic not drying a part off.. especially in that area were water can hold...

06-27-2008, 01:49 PM	#20
scottrod71 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Olathe, Kansas Posts: 117	Re: Powdercoating Issues. Grrrrr!! Part 2 Doug, what finally happened with these wheels? I can't imagine they didn't offer to redo them...........

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