350 CID engine damper is pissing me off

[killer_mike]

Hey, i bought this 290HP 350CSB, im about to put it in my K10 but the damn damnper is giving me a hard time. Part #12551537 i tried to put it in the rat way tap it in with a mallet, messed up a bolt and the thread of the crankshaft, no problem, i have cutting oil and tap and die set.

Now, i bought a brand new Moroso damper install tool, and it broke one of the adapters the thing wont just go in, i mean, it shouldnt be that hard or require that much force to get the damper in. The crankshaft diameter is 1.255", maybe i bought the wrong damper. If i remenber right the damper is a 6", of wich it should work as far as i know on 305 to 383

[truckdude239]

8 inch damaper is what i installed ON my 305

[killer_mike]

This 6 3/4" damper should fit on every chevy SBC according to gmpartsdirect.com

Originally Posted by truckdude239

8 inch damaper is what i installed ON my 305

[cdowns]

did you lubricate the shaft and balancer?

[killer_mike]

Yes i did, anti-seize on the inside and engine oil on the outside.

Originally Posted by cdowns

did you lubricate the shaft and balancer?

[jamie72]

its 8in. or the 6 3/4 damper if its a gm crate motor..

[Gray Ghost]

Mine went on very easily with a bit of oil and the installer tool. I don't recommend this method but have seen it done....put it in the oven at 200 degrees until it gets warm, then slide it on with oil.

[Billla]

It's a press fit, but shouldn't be anywhere near that hard to put on.

I'd suggest a) you got an out-of-tolerance one so swap it or b) just measure the crank and the ID of the balancer and have your shop take a few passes on the rod hone. I had to do this on a recent 355 build.

[Arad68]

I had this same problem. The end of my crank was jacked up. I know it happens, but I don't recommend the tap it on with a mallet method. It is really easy to get it on crooked and and damage the crank and damper. Heat it up in the oven and if you have to use ice to cool the end of the crank.

[killer_mike]

And this oven stuff dont mess up the damper?
Im just thinking, i might get the damper off on the engine the truck has now, and see how it fits on the new one.

And yeah, i will measure the damper mounting hub to see whats up.

[estig70]

make sure key and key way are aligned.

Eric

[killer_mike]

I bought a brand new damper from Advance Auto and it went in like a charm, nice and tight fit. The 6 3/4, i wont dare to buy one of those in my life ever again; i even called Jegs [i bought the engine from them] and gave them all the details, the guy told me that they never ordered that part # [damper] from GM.
When i was trying to install it, i hit it with the mallet, then i used a piece of wood, put it against the damper and hammered it, the THING WONT GO IN, the crankshaft was intact, i visually inspect it and used a caliper, and like i said, the new 8" went in with no problems. In a near miss, i hit the damper, so thats why i opted to better buy a new one.

I even bought a Moroso install tool and the crap broke one of the 7/16 adapter, but i got lucky and Moroso sent me one for free . Now im concerned because i dont know where, but i read that someone had his crankshaft bearings messed up big time after 3000 miles after hammering away to install a damper, so now im not sure if something is messed up in there; i was thinking on an inspection of course, but i dont really know what to look for.
I have a socket to turn the crank and it turns fine, a little hard of course, the engine is brand new, never started. Anyone with some ideas of what should i inspect to make sure i dont end up towin the truck all the way to NJ?

[Billla]

Well, never - ever - pound a balancer on :/

It shouldn't take more than about 40 lbs-ft to turn over a new shortblock.

If the crank is hit hard off-center, it's very easy to damage the bearings - and the thrust bearing can be damaged by driving on the balancer with a hammer. I'm assuming you're not going to tear the thing down...so there's nothing to inspect :/

[killer_mike]

I forgot to add that i bought the damper from GM Parts Direct the part is: GM12551537 STAY AWAY FROM IT!!
When i was trying to figure out an easy way, i even used sand paper grit 220 to grind a little the lip on the inside of the mounting surface, yeah u guessed it, didnt worked. I think i was grinding for about 30 minutes, but nothing.

Yes, i cleaned it BEFORE i tried to install it with brake parts claner and a paper towel.

[killer_mike]

Well buddy, i tell u that i prefer to replace whatever is broken now that the engine is off, than wait for it to break on me while im driving. Everyone has f-ups on this kind of hobbie/profession, some forget gaskets, other bolts, others break stuff, i pounded on a balancer, rookie mistake, but somethings are meant to be learn the hard way, specialy when theres no one to ask for advice at the spot.

The engine dont require an enormous amount of force to turn, but is hard compared to the old engine, i can turn it by grabbing on the flywheel. Im thinking on drive with the radio off for the 500 miles that will take for the break in, so i can listen to weird noises and take the oil pan off and look for metal shavings and such when is time to put regular oil after the 500; but im going for the inspection; the only time that hammer went off center was when i hit the balancer, after that i stoped pounding. And the thrust bearing is, im assuming, on the front...

Originally Posted by Billla

Well, never - ever - pound a balancer on :/

It shouldn't take more than about 40 lbs-ft to turn over a new shortblock.

If the crank is hit hard off-center, it's very easy to damage the bearings - and the thrust bearing can be damaged by driving on the balancer with a hammer. I'm assuming you're not going to tear the thing down...so there's nothing to inspect :/

[killer_mike]

Ok, did some measurements compared to the old block and it seems that the crankshaft is too far back on relation to the old block; so i will readjust the crankshaft. I think thats all i need to do in case nothing is broken.

[Billla]

The thrust bearing is a flange on the rear main bearing. There is no way to "readjust" the cranskshaft - if by "too far back" you mean that the pullies don't align then you've got the wrong water pump, wrong pullies, wrong balancer and/or the balancer is not snug against the crank snout.

My point in calling out not to pound on the balancer wasn't to call you out - it was to ensure that anyone reading the post knows 100% not to do this. I'd suggest that you also have a good overhaul reference available as you're looking at this - the point of those books is to avoid learning this stuff the hard way...which as you're finding, can be expen$ive.

As for the engine turning torque - as noted, pull the plugs if the heads are installed and turn it over with a torque wrench; if it's < 40 lbs-ft or so there's likely no issue. For inspection, the only way you'll see this kind of damage is to pull the crank and closely inspect and mic the main bearings (with a bearing mic) - and if you're going to do that you might as well just replace them as they're cheap.

[Gray Ghost]

Here's what I did....I got the rental tool [free] from O'Reilly's and put some 30 weight oil on the snout of the crank and inside the balancer. Then lined up the key way and installed the balancer...easiest thing I have ever done on a truck motor.

The guy who built my motor hammered the first one on after having it in the oven on 200. You now know why I am petrified worrying about when this motor will tank...the guy who was highly recommended btw, will never touch another block of mine.

How far off are you on pulley alignment?

[killer_mike]

I dont have any accesories on, just the damper; when i installed it, i stoped turning the tool when the damper got hard to turn, and theres a considerable amount of the damper in, so it covers the seal, i look at it from the top and it looks like its in all the way. When i measured, what i did was measure from the rear of the block, to the flywheel mounting plate on both blocks, on the same place and it gave me a 1.90mm of difference, but i cant relly on the old block because is a mess, but it was running at least.

Yeah i was thinking on just replace the bearings, i dont know if the bearings on the engine are the flat side ones or the ones with the thrust skirt on the sides; they are new but if they yielded to the hammering force i think it would be better to leave the guess work alone for half ass ppl and just buy new ones. Right when i got off the comp i started reading the Engine Builders Handbook by Tom Monroe and the process dont seem to be so difficult, just gotta get torque specs and end play specs he talks about a 0.0005 to 0.0010 of end play on the crank.
But the important thing from all this is that i wont hammer a damper ever and i will get to know my engine, so if it fails i know what it is, plus some experience. Now why should a "experienced" engine builder hammer a damper?
I will keep u guys posted on my findings, right now im working on the trannie and t-casethey almost ready, just waiting for the paint to dry and the seals to cure so i can mount them; i will clean up the garage before i open the engine, theres too much crap around, and i have problems finding my tools some times, frustrating

[killer_mike]

LOL, at least i had the courtesy of hammering my damper, on my engine. Maybe he got excited for the amount of funds he would get when he was done, in my case if theres anything other than magnaflux, bore and hone and machine work, i do it myself.
I dont trust mechanic shops; like for example, my S10 spited a little bearing that supposedly goes between the flywheel and clutch and thats the reason it was hard as hell to shift; i bought my own clutch so i would do the work myself but the drive shaft is a pain to get off, so i took it to the shop, the guy charged me 525 bucks for this work, wich i think is BS, because all he gotta do is slede back the trannie and put the new clutch and done, if he supplied the clutch would be 740, imagine that, like if hes gonna put a dual racing clutch on it or something, but after this, never again.

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

Here's what I did....I got the rental tool [free] from O'Reilly's and put some 30 weight oil on the snout of the crank and inside the balancer. Then lined up the key way and installed the balancer...easiest thing I have ever done on a truck motor.

The guy who built my motor hammered the first one on after having it in the oven on 200. You now know why I am petrified worrying about when this motor will tank...the guy who was highly recommended btw, will never touch another block of mine.

How far off are you on pulley alignment?

[Billla]

Originally Posted by killer_mike

i dont know if the bearings on the engine are the flat side ones or the ones with the thrust skirt on the sides;

Well...they're both Every GEN I/II SBC has one bearing - the thrust bearing- that has a flange on it and the others don't.

[killer_mike]

Originally Posted by Billla

Well...they're both Every GEN I/II SBC has one bearing - the thrust bearing- that has a flange on it and the others don't.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by killer_mike

Uh, this is funny why?

[killer_mike]

Because i got a little confused; is ONE thrust bearing per block or all the mains have thrust bearings?

Originally Posted by Billla

Uh, this is funny why?

[Billla]

Originally Posted by killer_mike

Because i got a little confused; is ONE thrust bearing per block or all the mains have thrust bearings?

ONE thrust bearing, #5.